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  1. #1

    Would this be considered as an exploit?

    I found a trick over at wowhead on how to make the achievement "Attention to Detail" piss easy.

    It involves using two commands that creates two 3D-models on your screen, one of the boss and one of your current target so that you can see both without them spinning all over the place.

    The commands in question:
    /run frm2 = CreateFrame("PlayerModel");frm2:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT",frm,"BOTTOMLEFT",0,0);frm2:SetHeigh t(600);frm2:SetWidth(300);frm2:SetUnit("target")

    Creates a model of the your target when you run the command

    /run frm = CreateFrame("PlayerModel");frm:SetPoint("BOTTOMRIGHT",nil,"BOTTOMRIGHT",0,100);frm:SetHeig ht(600);frm:SetWidth(300);frm:RegisterEvent("PLAYER_TARGET_CHANGED");frm:SetScript("OnEven t",function(self,event,...) frm:SetUnit("target") end);

    Creates a model of your current target.

    Is this considered as exploiting? Would suck being baned for this even tho it seems unlikely as it is commands made available to us ingame without any mods or something like that.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    I doubt it, you still have to figure out if it matches. This just makes it easier to compare.
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  3. #3
    The achievement itself isn't too bad. You just need to find the one who's a little bit brighter than the other ones. Once you're able to see it for the first time every other time after that is easy.

  4. #4
    Blizzard has always said that adding your own models or changing there's is a bad idea.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalent1989 View Post
    You just need to find the one who's a little bit brighter than the other ones.
    Ye, that's what I've come to realize. First few times I tried it I cycled through all the illusions one by one, but then I saw someone write something about the original being brighter. Now I hit alt+z to clear the UI to see it more clearly and usually get the right one at the first try.

    Still use the commands to be sure tho..

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraylas View Post
    Blizzard has always said that adding your own models or changing there's is a bad idea.
    This isn't changing the in-game models. In fact, this is something possible in completely unmodified LUA. Notice how they're only using macroes?

    And yes, I can confirm this method works, I used it yesterday to get the achievement.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    And yes, I can confirm this method works, I used it yesterday to get the achievement.
    Oh it works, I know I just saw someone write something about this being exploitative and anyone using it deserved to be banned, I didn't believe him 100%, just being a bit paranoid :P

  8. #8
    I'm pretty sure using obscure commands to get an achievement (which is definitely unintended) would be something that they would at the very least warn you against doing, if not a temp ban.

    So yeah, knowing how Blizzard has operated in the past, they certainly could feasibly ban you for this, and it's not entirely unlikely that they would.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    I'm pretty sure using obscure commands to get an achievement (which is definitely unintended) would be something that they would at the very least warn you against doing, if not a temp ban.

    So yeah, knowing how Blizzard has operated in the past, they certainly could feasibly ban you for this, and it's not entirely unlikely that they would.
    The thing is, this is all UI commands that can be performed via Macroes. It's not an exploit, it's a feature. What do you think Addons are, except collections of obscure commands?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    I'm pretty sure using obscure commands to get an achievement (which is definitely unintended) would be something that they would at the very least warn you against doing, if not a temp ban.

    So yeah, knowing how Blizzard has operated in the past, they certainly could feasibly ban you for this, and it's not entirely unlikely that they would.
    Way to scare people with your bullshit stories bro. Creating 3D models of targets on your screen has been a large element of tons of UI packages and there's absolutely no chance in hell you'll ever receive a warning for using them, even in the neigh impossible case that a GM actually finds out that you're using them.

    People really don't have the first clue what bad business it would be for Blizzard to ban people for such "offences" (it's not actually an offence). Players who have tabs full of botted herbs and ores on the auction house get a temp ban at best (most commonly it's a warning) on their first time even though they're completely disrupting the server's economy, and that's when acting directly against ToS by using third party software as well as being a huge menace to the player base.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    The thing is, this is all UI commands that can be performed via Macroes. It's not an exploit, it's a feature. What do you think Addons are, except collections of obscure commands?
    Um, you do realize that all "exploits" were able to be performed using only what's available in game. No third party tools are required to exploit something, and yes, people HAVE been banned for using the game mechanics in certain ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotAddicted View Post
    Way to scare people with your bullshit stories bro. Creating 3D models of targets on your screen has been a large element of tons of UI packages and there's absolutely no chance in hell you'll ever receive a warning for using them, even in the neigh impossible case that a GM actually finds out that you're using them.

    People really don't have the first clue what bad business it would be for Blizzard to ban people for such "offences" (it's not actually an offence). Players who have tabs full of botted herbs and ores on the auction house get a temp ban at best (most commonly it's a warning) on their first time even though they're completely disrupting the server's economy, and that's when acting directly against ToS by using third party software as well as being a huge menace to the player base.
    Just because a function exists doesn't mean Blizzard is okay with you using it however you please.

    I recall an addon that actually let you (or maybe automatically did it for the fight) draw all over the field for a boss fight, so you'd know where to move, or where the next attack would take place, etc. Blizzard deliberately broke this in a patch, and warned them to not try to fix it. They didn't like it.

    Point being, use it at your own risk, but don't delude yourself into thinking they wouldn't ban for something like this. Unintended use of game mechanics is pretty much a textbook definition of exploit.

  12. #12
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    ^^ I think you deluded yourself into thinking you can get banned for this. The people who exploited and killed everyone/NPC in stormwind and org, that's the kind of stuff you get banned for. Creating a simple little marco to see a 3D model easier to complete an achievement wont get you banned. They'll more than likely "deliberately break it in a patch" like you suggested, than ban a huge mass of people for it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    ^^ I think you deluded yourself into thinking you can get banned for this. The people who exploited and killed everyone/NPC in stormwind and org, that's the kind of stuff you get banned for. Creating a simple little marco to see a 3D model easier to complete an achievement wont get you banned. They'll more than likely "deliberately break it in a patch" like you suggested, than ban a huge mass of people for it.
    I didn't say they will, I'm just saying they could. But really, it would have to happen often enough for them to be concerned. It's obviously an unintended use of macros, which is all the reason they need. One cannot argue they intended for this macro to be used to get this kind of an advantage on an achievement.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Firebane's Avatar
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    I did it without it when I accidentally did the macro twice and stacked several images.

    Oldshool squinting to make shit out 5cm away from my monitor. Yeah.

    Totally legal.
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    I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

  15. #15
    The Patient Zinspawn's Avatar
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    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Just because a function exists doesn't mean Blizzard is okay with you using it however you please.

    I recall an addon that actually let you (or maybe automatically did it for the fight) draw all over the field for a boss fight, so you'd know where to move, or where the next attack would take place, etc. Blizzard deliberately broke this in a patch, and warned them to not try to fix it. They didn't like it.
    It disturbs me that people lack the common sense to see the difference between AVR, which was broken about 2 weeks after it surfaced, and the ability to pop up 3D models on your screen - a function that has been in the game without the slightest mention of it being exploit sensitive for 8 years. Furthermore, I'd like to remind you that such a thing as boss mods have existed for as many years. I hope this requires no further elaboration to prove my point.

    To sum up;

    -It's a function that has been in the game since very early vanilla and it has never been linked to any serious exploit.
    -The use is low profile, Blizzard will never cheat themselves out of a paying costumer for such a none-bleeding edge achievement unless you went to extreme measures to acquire it that are banable in themselves (i.e. flying-/wall hacks or similar). This also means they are extremely unlikely to brake the function as removing the ability to render 3D models on your screen is a large cosmetic asset for many UI packages, which is no doubt valued much more highly than an achievement that will bare negligible relevance in the future.
    -Unless you provide a good reason for Blizzard to look into what exactly you are doing (i.e. you are reported for using using third party software/hacks), they will never find out what UI elements etc you are even using. The notion that Blizzard would hire the manpower to do random checks on people to verify that they're not using potentially exploitive functions is absolutely ludicrous, they will only ever do so if seriously provoked by multiple reports or similar reasons - obviously not included getting a dungeon achievement.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NotAddicted View Post
    It disturbs me that people lack the common sense to see the difference between AVR, which was broken about 2 weeks after it surfaced, and the ability to pop up 3D models on your screen - a function that has been in the game without the slightest mention of it being exploit sensitive for 8 years. Furthermore, I'd like to remind you that such a thing as boss mods have existed for as many years. I hope this requires no further elaboration to prove my point.

    To sum up;

    -It's a function that has been in the game since very early vanilla and it has never been linked to any serious exploit.
    -The use is low profile, Blizzard will never cheat themselves out of a paying costumer for such a none-bleeding edge achievement unless you went to extreme measures to acquire it that are banable in themselves (i.e. flying-/wall hacks or similar). This also means they are extremely unlikely to brake the function as removing the ability to render 3D models on your screen is a large cosmetic asset for many UI packages, which is no doubt valued much more highly than an achievement that will bare negligible relevance in the future.
    -Unless you provide a good reason for Blizzard to look into what exactly you are doing (i.e. you are reported for using using third party software/hacks), they will never find out what UI elements etc you are even using. The notion that Blizzard would hire the manpower to do random checks on people to verify that they're not using potentially exploitive functions is absolutely ludicrous, they will only ever do so if seriously provoked by multiple reports or similar reasons - obviously not included getting a dungeon achievement.
    Just because the function existed for a long time doesn't mean it can't be used for an exploit.

    I don't think it's a big deal, myself, but I don't see why you're so insistent that Blizzard could not ban someone for it. It's using a command in a way that was not intended. It is an oversight in the achievement, and a loophole is found. You're right that it's hard for them to track, but I really wouldn't put it past them to temp ban someone who was reported for it.

    The mentality "the game allows me to do it, so I obviously won't be banned for it" is a dangerous one, since it happens. All the time.

  18. #18
    And what if someone made an addon that used this very command, just in a easier-to-use button-click form?

    Basically, with this command you are doing stuff an addon would do, just w/o the addon. It's safe to assume it's legal until blizz decides otherwise (and brakes the command)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Just because the function existed for a long time doesn't mean it can't be used for an exploit.

    I don't think it's a big deal, myself, but I don't see why you're so insistent that Blizzard could not ban someone for it. It's using a command in a way that was not intended. It is an oversight in the achievement, and a loophole is found. You're right that it's hard for them to track, but I really wouldn't put it past them to temp ban someone who was reported for it.

    The mentality "the game allows me to do it, so I obviously won't be banned for it" is a dangerous one, since it happens. All the time.
    Regardless of it being a "loophole" in the achievement, this isn't going to be something ban-worthy. You aren't getting some serious upper hand over all of the competition, you aren't exploiting broken game mechanics to gain an edge, you aren't botting or wall hacking. If anything blizz should be the ones to get a slap on the wrist for putting in an achievement that can give you some pretty serious eye strain trying to figure out which one is the right one based on tiny differences while they twirl endlessly in circles, not the players.

  20. #20
    Portraits such as the ones in Shadowed unit frames will be able to show you the models without having to resort to this. I doubt you will get banned for using those commands though

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