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  1. #1

    BiS trinket list, I dont get it

    http://apple.icy-veins.com/brewmaste...t-best-in-slot

    So according to icy veins our best trinkets have stam, mastery and dodge.

    I dont get it. Stam is good till a point, then its not very good. Mastery is just plain awful. Dodge is okay, but even 8,000 dodge wont = 30%, so wouldnt it be best to get agi/haste/crit trinkets to keep up shuffle, elusive brew? Am I missing something?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    http://apple.icy-veins.com/brewmaste...t-best-in-slot

    So according to icy veins our best trinkets have stam, mastery and dodge.

    I dont get it. Stam is good till a point, then its not very good. Mastery is just plain awful. Dodge is okay, but even 8,000 dodge wont = 30%, so wouldnt it be best to get agi/haste/crit trinkets to keep up shuffle, elusive brew? Am I missing something?
    Some fights recommend a high mastery/stam set up, such as Will of the Emperor. Those kinds of fights, weaving trinket cooldowns with Dampen Harm/Guard is imperative to staying alive.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    http://apple.icy-veins.com/brewmaste...t-best-in-slot

    So according to icy veins our best trinkets have stam, mastery and dodge.

    I dont get it. Stam is good till a point, then its not very good. Mastery is just plain awful. Dodge is okay, but even 8,000 dodge wont = 30%, so wouldnt it be best to get agi/haste/crit trinkets to keep up shuffle, elusive brew? Am I missing something?
    Yes, you missed this

    In each table, the items are ranked by item level and then alphabetically
    gg

  4. #4
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    It's generally advisable to keep a wide array of trinkets in your bag, as a good tank will be swapping trinkets often depending on the encounter requirements. Some require more EHP, some overall damage reduction, some require high dps, and some require powerful avoidance cooldowns. Each of those situations has specific trinkets that fit best.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Yes, you missed this



    gg
    I dont think you know how this works. Thanks for your input.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 03:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    It's generally advisable to keep a wide array of trinkets in your bag, as a good tank will be swapping trinkets often depending on the encounter requirements. Some require more EHP, some overall damage reduction, some require high dps, and some require powerful avoidance cooldowns. Each of those situations has specific trinkets that fit best.
    That is my question. Monk tanks are active avoidance tanks, mastery is bad and stam is good until a point. Having proc effects is less desirable than having on use effects no?

    Having high haste would keep up guard more (more energy for more chi) for magic fights, even powerful cooldowns (say the trinket that gives 8000 dodge) only gives 10% dodge. Which is FAR less than the 30% that elusive brew gets.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    I dont think you know how this works. Thanks for your input.
    Wait.

    You said that icy-veins BiS list has stamina-dodge-mastery trinkets while it hasn't. You got one mastery-agi and one agi-haste trinket.

    So I checked the raw list below and I saw what you were talking about (since you got stamina-dodge-mastery trinkets there, only few agi) and I just thought you missed that that list were not a BiS list but just a ilvl-alphabetical list.

    Just a misunderstanding :P

    IMHO proc trinkets are less desirable than the use ones because the proc is unpredictable and it can happen when you wouldn't. But if a proc trinket is theoretically better than the use one I'd choose the one that benefit me the most according to the fight (if there is a steady damage or some spiky phases, if you need to run away from boss or if you stand the whole fight on him, etc)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Wait.

    You said that icy-veins BiS list has stamina-dodge-mastery trinkets while it hasn't. You got one mastery-agi and one agi-haste trinket.

    So I checked the raw list below and I saw what you were talking about (since you got stamina-dodge-mastery trinkets there, only few agi) and I just thought you missed that that list were not a BiS list but just a ilvl-alphabetical list.

    Just a misunderstanding :P

    IMHO proc trinkets are less desirable than the use ones because the proc is unpredictable and it can happen when you wouldn't. But if a proc trinket is theoretically better than the use one I'd choose the one that benefit me the most according to the fight (if there is a steady damage or some spiky phases, if you need to run away from boss or if you stand the whole fight on him, etc)
    I am trying to think of a time in which it would be better to have a traditional tank trinket over a traditional dps trinket. Can anyone provide any specifics? Cause the way I am seeing it (and I just could be an r-tard) is that BiS list from icy-veins is shit. I dont think I am smarter than icy-veins, I am just trying to understand.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    I am trying to think of a time in which it would be better to have a traditional tank trinket over a traditional dps trinket. Can anyone provide any specifics?
    Pretty much never, my only confusion comes from what part of these two trinkets (the ones listed as BIS) don't fit your criteria.

    Hawkmaster's Talon

    Bottle of Infinite Stars

    and how you think either of them is stam/mastery/dodge.
    Last edited by Zulandia; 2012-10-17 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulandia View Post
    Pretty much never, my only confusion comes from what part of these two trinkets (the ones listed as BIS) don't fit your criteria.

    Hawkmaster's Talon

    Bottle of Infinite Stars

    and how you think either of them is stam/mastery/dodge.
    Talon is 7th bis. 7th. 1.2.3.4.5.6...7

    Stars has a shit ton of mastery. Yes the agility is very nice, but its a proc, not on use. Not super helpful when you need on demand avoidence.

    Vial of Dragon's Blood (#1 on that site) has mastery and dodge. That takes care of 1 and 3.

    4th has stam and mastery. Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage
    5th has stam and mastery Jade Warlord Figurine


    Its not until you get to #6 Jade Bandit Figurine
    and #7 Hawkmaster's Talon is when you find Agi and haste.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    Talon is 7th bis. 7th. 1.2.3.4.5.6...7

    Stars has a shit ton of mastery. Yes the agility is very nice, but its a proc, not on use. Not super helpful when you need on demand avoidence.

    Vial of Dragon's Blood (#1 on that site) has mastery and dodge. That takes care of 1 and 3.

    4th has stam and mastery. Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage
    5th has stam and mastery Jade Warlord Figurine


    Its not until you get to #6 Jade Bandit Figurine
    and #7 Hawkmaster's Talon is when you find Agi and haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by IcyVeins
    3. Gearing Up

    When gearing up, we advise you to always prioritise pieces of Tier sets over non-set pieces of higher item level.

    In each table, the items are ranked by item level and then alphabetically.
    Table 3.12. Trinkets is the list which you are giving here.(Hint: you're not looking at the BiS list you're looking at an alphabetized list sorted by ilvl.
    Last edited by Zulandia; 2012-10-17 at 06:28 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    Talon is 7th bis. 7th. 1.2.3.4.5.6...7

    Stars has a shit ton of mastery. Yes the agility is very nice, but its a proc, not on use. Not super helpful when you need on demand avoidence.

    Vial of Dragon's Blood (#1 on that site) has mastery and dodge. That takes care of 1 and 3.

    4th has stam and mastery. Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage
    5th has stam and mastery Jade Warlord Figurine


    Its not until you get to #6 Jade Bandit Figurine
    and #7 Hawkmaster's Talon is when you find Agi and haste.
    This issue is that you don't know how to read the list. It's already been mentioned to you by another poster that those gear options at the bottom are put in order of ascending ilvl and alphabetical order.

    Hawkmasters Talon is BiS on that list, not 7th, BiS. There's a table at the very top that shows what they considered BiS, and that was Talon, and Infinite stars, as the person you replied to stated. Vial is not #1, it's simply the highest ilvl that begins with the latest letter of the alphabet in that list.

    Also, I don't understand why you're complaining about the mastery on Stars, since we've been hearing about heroic players going to stam and mastery to get through the content. This is common, tanks always have to do this in the tough progression content until gear is up to par, and then they can lighten up when the raid has the gear for content to be farm(though sometimes it needs to be kept).

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 06:27 PM ----------

    Zulandia beat me to it becaues I was long winded.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 06:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    I dont think you know how this works. Thanks for your input.[COLOR="red"]
    His quote was directly from the site. This was a silly reply, and you simply don't care if you aren't reading this properly, or listening when people point it out to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danund81
    Just SAY IT.* "I'm right you're wrong and I know it because I have the power of a website's link."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargarii View Post
    This issue is that you don't know how to read the list. It's already been mentioned to you by another poster that those gear options at the bottom are put in order of ascending ilvl and alphabetical order.

    Hawkmasters Talon is BiS on that list, not 7th, BiS. There's a table at the very top that shows what they considered BiS, and that was Talon, and Infinite stars, as the person you replied to stated. Vial is not #1, it's simply the highest ilvl that begins with the latest letter of the alphabet in that list.

    Also, I don't understand why you're complaining about the mastery on Stars, since we've been hearing about heroic players going to stam and mastery to get through the content. This is common, tanks always have to do this in the tough progression content until gear is up to par, and then they can lighten up when the raid has the gear for content to be farm(though sometimes it needs to be kept).

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 06:27 PM ----------

    Zulandia beat me to it becaues I was long winded.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 06:28 PM ----------



    His quote was directly from the site. This was a silly reply, and you simply don't care if you aren't reading this properly, or listening when people point it out to you.
    Mastery if awful. It only helps vs physical dmg and you have to purge the stagger, which costs chi.

    I understand I was reading it incorrectly, but when somebody just says "gg" then I think they are an idiot and ignore everything they say.

    And I am sorry but there are no heroic guilds that are pushing with a BrM tank stacking stam and mastery.

    I should clarify, when I was asking for help with information, I was wanting it from somebody with BrM experience.

  13. #13
    There is enough physical damage in the heroics for the need. While the top guilds weren't doing that, there has been plenty of discussion among the brewmaster tanks here that are doing the content transition or have already moved up.

    I understand the gg comment was unnnecessary, but you seem to be pretty quick to judge, yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danund81
    Just SAY IT.* "I'm right you're wrong and I know it because I have the power of a website's link."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargarii View Post
    There is enough physical damage in the heroics for the need. While the top guilds weren't doing that, there has been plenty of discussion among the brewmaster tanks here that are doing the content transition or have already moved up.

    I understand the gg comment was unnnecessary, but you seem to be pretty quick to judge, yourself.
    Thanks for the update Dr. Phil.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumatran View Post
    Thanks for the update Dr. Phil.
    There's no need to be condescending.

    Both of you, please quit it with the arguing and lets get a bit back on the topic of trinkets for brewmasters, shall we?

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    It's generally advisable to keep a wide array of trinkets in your bag, as a good tank will be swapping trinkets often depending on the encounter requirements. Some require more EHP, some overall damage reduction, some require high dps, and some require powerful avoidance cooldowns. Each of those situations has specific trinkets that fit best.
    Do you know of a reforge program/site/option that will exclude trinkets? Swapping to a stam trinket usually means pulling off one that had secondary stats which were factored into reaching your Hit/Expertise cap optimization.

    Anyone consider either (Agil vs Stam) of the DMC's as "must haves" to your collection? DK's were lucky to usually avoid them most tiers so used to not messing with those.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Rickmagnus's Avatar
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    Just to get an idea, the concensus is, DPS trinkets are good, Tank trinkets are bad, situations may vary. That pretty much it? I'm trying to find a general idea of what trinkets to aim for.
    "I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse."
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Issac Asimov

  18. #18
    Tanks will always want an on use trinket and one to be a proc based. If you wish for full defensive setup, Vial of Dragon's Blood + DMC: Ox. Is the most dependable for Physical. Jade Warlord/Lao Chin +DMC:Ox for more heavy magic damage fights, constant magic damage, since if it is A big magic hit you might as well just use Zen Meditation.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Jess Day's Avatar
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    Its not until you get to #6 Jade Bandit Figurine
    and #7 Hawkmaster's Talon is when you find Agi and haste.
    What you're not taking into account is haste uses allow you to stack a lot of stagger very quickly at the start, essentially making the rest of the fight easier, at least on tank and spank bosses, because your shuffle uptime will be much easier to maintain. With easier stagger maintenence, you get more use of purifying brew, more use of purifying brew means a huge chunk of damage wiped from the face of existence.

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Do you know of a reforge program/site/option that will exclude trinkets? Swapping to a stam trinket usually means pulling off one that had secondary stats which were factored into reaching your Hit/Expertise cap optimization.

    Anyone consider either (Agil vs Stam) of the DMC's as "must haves" to your collection? DK's were lucky to usually avoid them most tiers so used to not messing with those.
    Askmrrobot has advanced options that allow you to 'lock' items or even specific reforges/enchants/gems on items, and you can also uncheck items in every list for availability to the optimizer.

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