Such a simple and elegant design that will change PvP forever.

[warjin]

Crowd control in this game is the worst it's ever been, to tell you the truth excessive crowd control of any player vs. player game is fundamentally flawed if a player is allowed to continuously damage a player while under the effect of a crowd control.

After many years of research, brainstorming and playing multiple games I have learned to cherry pick the best aspects of many games that involve player vs. player, to that end I feel in order to have a perfectly balanced and enjoyable player vs. player experience all stuns should be limited to no more than 2 seconds or the standard global cool down of that particular game, in this case World of Warcraft's standard global cool down is 1.5 seconds so because of this all stuns should be capped at 1.5 seconds and by doing so blizzard can remove the diminishing returns on stuns, the only form of crowd control that should be affected by diminishing returns and allowed to run the duration of 8 seconds in player vs. player are incapacitating effects or effects that break on damage.

The highlights to my proposed changes:
1. All stuns are to last no longer the 1.5 seconds but are no longer on diminishing returns.
2. All incapacitation effects such as (example) sap, fear, repentance, ect. will last its full duration of 8 seconds in player vs. player but share diminishing returns with each other.
3. All races, classes will be given a baseline standard skill equivalent to the player vs. player trinket on a 2 minute cool down.
4. All trinkets purchased for player vs. player will modify the race, class crowd control removal skill by adding effects such as lowering the cool down or adding an 8 second immunity to the race, class crowd control removal skill.




By adding the changes above we would add a whole new element of player skill, team coordination and individual player counter tactics leaving us with a player vs. player game worthy of e-sport.

If any of you guys/girls knows anyone in charge over at Blizzard please give them this idea, take the credit I don't care just get it done for the sake of all MMO's to follow.

[Strah]

I'm pretty sure that keeping player at bay by smartly managing your CC and proper cooldown management is what differentiates good players from bad players.

[Taurous]

As a low level rogue, I disagree.

[warjin]

I'm pretty sure that keeping player at bay by smartly managing your CC and proper cooldown management is what differentiates good players from bad players.

Agreed, but with incapacitation effects that break on damage, there is not skill in beating someone that cant fight back but there is skill on CC them to well control the crowd.

[Strah]

Agreed, but with incapacitation effects that break on damage, there is not skill in beating someone that cant fight back but there is skill on CC them to well control the crowd.

What about dot classes? They seem to get the short end of the stick that way.

[Taurous]

Agreed, but with incapacitation effects that break on damage, there is not skill in beating someone that cant fight back but there is skill on CC them to well control the crowd.

IMO this is where teamwork should come in to play. If one of your teammates is being locked down you should try to help them out. Maybe they should add a way for teammates to break CC?

I'm not a pvper so I don't know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: Also, I think a few classes only work with CC that they can damage. From what I have experienced with my rogue, CC is the only way I can kill something before it kills me, at least in a one on one situation. That and backstab only works from behind my target, which means without CC and a with a player smart enough to face me, that's gone.

[Itisamuh]

While I agree with the sentiment that CC is out of control, a lot would have to change before this went into effect. Classes more reliant on CC than others would need to be reworked to where they were more toe to toe, damage in general would have to be lowered if everyone would be mostly spamming damage attacks after the target is immune to CC, and most importantly, healing would have to be nerfed across the board by a ton. As annoying as CC is, healing is even more out of hand, and nobody would ever kill a healer in the current state of the game without a ton of CC. In other words, your idea has some merit, but WoW PvP is in such a sorry state right now that no one change, no matter how big, will really help anything.

[warjin]

As a low level rogue, I disagree.

wait till you get to 90 and die in a GCD by a Warriors 1 shot macro or being chained stunned to death, you views will change, don't get me wrong CC is needed but not loss of character control that gives the players free rain on another, because then it only becomes who can push the stun button faster then who can out think the enemy faster, team or player.

Also remember you can still chain stun but just for 1.5 seconds so in a team the players can coordinate in a skillful manner to take someone out by linking there perfectly timed stuns back to back.

[rnbwtrout]

1.5sec makes cc obsolete. i like cc. what i don't like is that some classes are stacked with cc, while others aren't. that's where most of the frustration comes from: cc envy.

the ideal solution for pvp is to make all the cc available to all classes, then the player chooses which ones he wants but with a limit, like only 2 cc skills or something. when the playing field is level'd this way, the complaints about cc will disappear.

[warjin]

What about dot classes? They seem to get the short end of the stick that way.

Pallies and rogues have it where they can use an incapacitation effect on a players with there own dots on them and it will not break, only effects added after the CC or direct damage will break it.

[Taurous]

wait till you get to 90 and die in a GCD by a Warriors 1 shot macro or being chained stunned to death, you views will change, don't get me wrong CC is needed but not loss of character control that gives the players free rain on another, because then it only becomes who can push the stun button faster then who can out think the enemy faster, team or player.

Also remember you can still chain stun but just for 1.5 seconds so in a team the players can coordinate in a skillful manner to take someone out by linking there perfectly timed stuns back to back.

Hmm, I don't seem to understand the difference between chaining my longer stuns with diminishing returns vs chaining 1.5 second stuns without diminishing returns. Wouldn't that end in the same way of whoever can hit the stun button first?

[blackblade]

By adding the changes above we would add a whole new element of player skill, team coordination and individual player counter tactics leaving us with a player vs. player game worthy of e-sport.

If any of you guys/girls knows anyone in charge over at Blizzard please give them this idea, take the credit I don't care just get it done for the sake of all MMO's to follow.

The reason why something like SC2 can be an E-Sport is because luck and RNG are less a factor.

Marines can't crit, deal X damage, and attack at Y speed. there are some %'s in SC2, but they're not gamebreaking.

Mages can crit. Mages can have good blinks and bad blinks, despite player skill. If a match ends in 30 seconds because the mage got shit lucky and crit 5 times in a row that's not entertainement.

SC2 is entertaining as an e-sport for moments when the player's overlord happens to discover and unravel his enemies plans. when an unsuspecting player falls for the other players meticulously laid trap.

WoW has less room for that kind of calculation. The teams are too small, the game changes every PVP seasion. an S7 hunter is totally different from an S10 hunter. A marine is a marine. the numbers might move up or down, and expansions might give new units and new upgrades, but not at the frequency of a new patch.

[Bluesftw]

i agree, cc is beyond stupid this season, way too much instant cc flying around.

[warjin]

Hmm, I don't seem to understand the difference between chaining my longer stuns with diminishing returns vs chaining 1.5 second stuns without diminishing returns. Wouldn't that end in the same way of whoever can hit the stun button first?

most classes only have an average of 2 stuns, and maybe 1 incapacitation effect so worst case a single player can stun someone for 3 seconds max if they link them back to back, or if they work out with a team of 5v5 they can all link there stuns if timed skillfully to get a full 8 second + lock out on a enemy player, the problem is giving a single player 2 or more 4-6 second stuns creates a a mess in PvP and just becomes, well what we see today in WoW PvP, a stun happy fest with no skill behind it other then pushing 1 button to win every time a stun is up.

[nancypants2012]

Homogenize all the things.

[Mormolyce]

Er, so I use an ability that costs me 1.5s which prevents my opponent taking action for 1.5s? So I've spent 1.5s to gain 1.5s back. Seems hardly any point.

That said I really don't like Blizzard's method of DR. It's obscure (how do new players even figure it out?) and requires mods just to monitor. And casting polymorph on someone three times with successively lower duration is not a kind of gameplay I think is particularly interesting anyway. Also the DR categories are an attempt to mitigate against CC abilities making other CC abilities redundant, but in practice they strongly limit choices for arena comps, which just sucks. Sorry longtime friend, you can't do PVP with me because of obscure game mechanics.

But I don't think your solution would really work. If you nerf CC to the point it's useless or at least a minor part of PVP then the game just becomes who can burst the fastest. At least picking the right moment CC requires SOME intelligence.

[warjin]

Homogenize all the things.

Thats pretty much how it is now, every class has a long stun and they use it as a I win button with no thought behind it, Cc should be about crowd control being controlling the crowd, stuns are not CC when they last 6 seconds and the stunned cant do anything about it with no counter, stuns should be used skillfully in which a player uses there stuns to control the pace of the fight not use it as a i win button, stuns should be used in the same effect as a sheep or sap to help the player or team set the direction of the battle in there favor with skill and timing, also with a 1.5 second stun you can even put all stuns on there own GCD much like a spell interupt.
I know what i'm asking calls for a sweeping changes to many classes as someone pointed out but if done right we can have the pvp we always dreamed of where CC means something, player and teams strategize in coordinate with each other, as for classes that rely on stuns like a rogue for example a simple fix would be to take a page right out of the GW2 thief handbook and let them vanish every 30sec-1min, many thing can be done and really IMO it's long over due, WoW's PvP is a mess and to prove this while else do we have FOTM classes and must have Comps every season in PvP because players tend to play the classes that work at the moment and not what they truly enjoy, ture and balanced PvP would have all classes represented not just the select few that have this months over powered composition in class mechanics.

---------- Post added 2012-10-16 at 12:10 AM ----------

Er, so I use an ability that costs me 1.5s which prevents my opponent taking action for 1.5s? So I've spent 1.5s to gain 1.5s back. Seems hardly any point.

That said I really don't like Blizzard's method of DR. It's obscure (how do new players even figure it out?) and requires mods just to monitor. And casting polymorph on someone three times with successively lower duration is not a kind of gameplay I think is particularly interesting anyway. Also the DR categories are an attempt to mitigate against CC abilities making other CC abilities redundant, but in practice they strongly limit choices for arena comps, which just sucks. Sorry longtime friend, you can't do PVP with me because of obscure game mechanics.

But I don't think your solution would really work. If you nerf CC to the point it's useless or at least a minor part of PVP then the game just becomes who can burst the fastest. At least picking the right moment CC requires SOME intelligence.

Yes, one can use the stun as a interrupt or to throw the enemy off, if a player wants to take a single player of of combat for more then that then they should use a break on contact CC like cyclone,sheep, blind thing like that. also lets not forget chain stunning your enemy with the use of team mates and with no DR you can well pretty much keep someone stunned for 10 seconds+ if the team has the skill to pull it off.

[Tsuna]

wait till you get to 90 and die in a GCD by a Warriors 1 shot macro or being chained stunned to death, you views will change, don't get me wrong CC is needed but not loss of character control that gives the players free rain on another, because then it only becomes who can push the stun button faster then who can out think the enemy faster, team or player.

Also remember you can still chain stun but just for 1.5 seconds so in a team the players can coordinate in a skillful manner to take someone out by linking there perfectly timed stuns back to back.

Ahh, are YOU by any chance a rogue? I've been doing the BG grind for the usual blues to get into the swing of pvp this season and I know full well what you're talking about as far as warriors unleashing the beat down on rogues. I've gemmed/enchanted heavy resil (about 8k) and have been ripped apart by warriors in a single Throw-Down every single time Trinket was on cd. Of course, I've been melted by just about everything capable of doing a 4+ second stun so I guess I've just gotten used to it. I probably won't bother with arenas, CP can be gained in BGs and I just want the filler gear to help ease into raiding with less of a hassle, plus I have zero interest in playing a competitive game where my opponent can dance til I lower him to 1% hp, pop Rallying cry and then rip out my spine in the time it takes me turn on Evasion and combat readiness.

As for your proposed changes, shared diminishing returns on all cc will probably severely handicap lots of pvp team comps. Stun max duration of 2s greatly hurts rogues and druids whose stun duration is based on combo point investment. Things might balance out but I think there would be more complaints than agreement. Of course, I can't fully comprehend why people would complain about pvp to begin with. Just roll a warrior and rip people apart for the lolzy times.

---------- Post added 2012-10-16 at 12:16 AM ----------

i agree, cc is beyond stupid this season, way too much instant cc flying around.

Oh yeah! Warlocks, shadow priests, how I loathe your instant "HAHA U ROOZE" spells!

[warjin]

Ahh, are YOU by any chance a rogue? I've been doing the BG grind for the usual blues to get into the swing of pvp this season and I know full well what you're talking about as far as warriors unleashing the beat down on rogues. I've gemmed/enchanted heavy resil (about 8k) and have been ripped apart by warriors in a single Throw-Down every single time Trinket was on cd. Of course, I've been melted by just about everything capable of doing a 4+ second stun so I guess I've just gotten used to it. I probably won't bother with arenas, CP can be gained in BGs and I just want the filler gear to help ease into raiding with less of a hassle, plus I have zero interest in playing a competitive game where my opponent can dance til I lower him to 1% hp, pop Rallying cry and then rip out my spine in the time it takes me turn on Evasion and combat readiness.

As for your proposed changes, shared diminishing returns on all cc will probably severely handicap lots of pvp team comps. Stun max duration of 2s greatly hurts rogues and druids whose stun duration is based on combo point investment. Things might balance out but I think there would be more complaints than agreement. Of course, I can't fully comprehend why people would complain about pvp to begin with. Just roll a warrior and rip people apart for the lolzy times.

I have many classes, but my mains are a RetPally,BMHunter,ArmsWarrior and now BrewmasterMonk, I do have a rogue buts hes still 85, and yes it is fun to kill someone in a stun but not the other way around so for the sake of the game I am calling a nerf to my stun happy classes in exchange for a more skillful way to PvP, the funny thing is I really never started to care about WoW PvP stun fest untill I staarted to play Gw2 that game IMo has some of the most fun PvP I have ever had and I still play every day but its not WoW in term of PvE so my wish is to pretty much bring the best aspect of Gw2's PvP to WoW and call it a day.

[Deleted]

Pvp trinket as a baseline skill should have been for so long on everyone