Fire Mage Guide

[Shangalar]

It's the lag that happens between (end Alter Time + cast pyro) and (reverting to AT snapshot). This can fixed to a degree by removing /cast Pyroblast from the macro and using it manually and also by waiting an additional 0.2 seconds before casting the Pyro after AT.

[Deleted]

Or just take 1 step in any direction and still just spam it, as at returns you it will break cast. further more you should try and get HS+Hu before using AT

[Drimacus]

Hey Fire fellows,

I was reading this Thread a lot and I'm overall very happy with my DPS regarding my gear. There are some questions I still have:

I was thinking a lot about those Alter Time, PoM, HS, HU mechanics and there is one point I do not feel confident about. Most Mages are at about 45% crit, that means ~one out of two times I get an extra HS after my first HS is used. Since those P! do 25% more dmg I don't feel like I want to use those very last PoM Pyro - it may screw my ignite. Should I use it if I get a second HS, or better hit comb before the pom pyro?

Also, where do those mega-ignites come from? I don't get it. In most cases I get about 20-30k ignites, but in some cases they go up to 60k - why? Do I screw the ignite by not perfectly hitting the gcd? How can I make those Pyro-ignites "stack"? Sometimes they seem to do so...

What forums do you consult beside mmo champion? It seems to be most in-depth forum for mages right now - is that true?

Last but not least, thank you Mr. bad Guy Windry for the Thread!

Cheers,

Drima

[Deleted]

Should I use it if I get a second HS, or better hit comb before the pom pyro?

As I have shown before, it mostly depends on timing... With instant pyro's you can land 2 pyro's inside the 2 second window of ignite ticking this is what will inflate your Ignite ticks the most. Preferably with a few crits as well.

After a crit you want to cast at maximum 2 pyroblasts, after that the gain of your crit is mostly lost ... the later the crit in your streak of combustions the bigger its contribution is going to be.... Best case scenario with atleast one Intellect buff up (relic pref) Ignite tick > Fireball > !Pyrblast > Ignite tick > !Pyro Crit > !Pyro Crit > Combustion > Ignite tick

How can I make those Pyro-ignites "stack"?

As described above, but add Time Warp, multiple Intellect procs (Relic/essence/Jade Spirit/Lightweave) and Potion, then with all that intellect (and the buffed crit rating as a result) hit 2 out of 3 Pyroblasts as a crit ... there is your mega ignite + Combustion.

[Drimacus]

As I have shown before, it mostly depends on timing... With instant pyro's you can land 2 pyro's inside the 2 second window of ignite ticking this is what will inflate your Ignite ticks the most. Preferably with a few crits as well.

So it's mostly about not wasting any time between those Pyros.. thanks a lot! Gotta work on that

I've something else to talk about.
For testing purposes I reduced my hit to 14.21%. I wanted to test if the troll racial does work with wands and decided to test my miss-chances without any weapon first (remember 14.21% hit). I tried on two different lvl 93 (rechecked twice) dummys, after about 2000 hits I did not get a single miss. On average there should have been 15-18 misses. Are those dummys bugged? Am I bugged? Any Idea?

Cheers,

[Deleted]

I have read and re-read this thread so many times trying to get my head around the optimum rotation and have found it absolutely fascinating. So thanks to all that have contributed to the whole discussion.

Just to be sure I have it clear in my head I wanted to try and collate some of the information in one post and ask if what I have is correct. The more I thought about it though I believe it all can be simplified as following what if’s

HS+HU = Fireball, !Pyro
HS= Cast fireball fishing for another heating up.
HU = Cast Inferno Blast
Neither HS or HU = Cast fireball until we get a HU

As I said this is simplified and doesn’t take into account POM, AT, COMBUSTION, Bombs or refreshing tier 6 talent but I think they are relatively easy to fit in.

I would suggest that the only time not refresh the tier 6 talent or our Bomb would be with HS+HU up as it is better to cast Fireball/!Pyro or when HU is up on its own and we need to cast IB.

Using Alter Time I would say is best saved for when we have HS+HU up.

Combustion as always is best used with a good ignite and ideally several proc’d buffs.

How does this sound – too simplified? Ok as a rule of thumb?

[Drimacus]

I gotta repost my last issue with some data....

as described above, for testing purposes I reforged below the hitcap and tried to get some misses on dummys. My Results are:

~2000 scorch hits with 14,21% hit without weapon - no miss
550 scorch hits with 14% hit without weapon - no miss
500 scorch hits with 13% hit without weapon - no miss
scorch hits with 12% hit without weapon - misses!
scorch hits with 12% hit with wand - misses! (tried to get some data on wands/trolls - was hoping for the ranged 1% expertise racial to work on wands - anyway I found that other issue)

I know 500 scorch hits with 13% without a miss is just "luck", but those 2500 Scorch hits without a single miss are at least suspicious. (maybe very "lucky" as well?).

I'm Troll and need some confirmation from other races and/or trolls... Is it me? Is it luck? Is it scorch? The Dummys? (tested on two, both "skull" level). Whats wrong here?


Mageortom:
I do agree almost completely, except: you should not use combust when your procs up, you should wait for HU+HS+Procs and use alter time by then. Those ignites make comb big, combustion itself doesn't need procs/buffs.

[elpadrino293]

I gotta repost my last issue with some data....

as described above, for testing purposes I reforged below the hitcap and tried to get some misses on dummys. My Results are:

~2000 scorch hits with 14,21% hit without weapon - no miss
550 scorch hits with 14% hit without weapon - no miss
500 scorch hits with 13% hit without weapon - no miss
scorch hits with 12% hit without weapon - misses!
scorch hits with 12% hit with wand - misses! (tried to get some data on wands/trolls - was hoping for the ranged 1% expertise racial to work on wands - anyway I found that other issue)

I know 500 scorch hits with 13% without a miss is just "luck", but those 2500 Scorch hits without a single miss are at least suspicious. (maybe very "lucky" as well?).

I'm Troll and need some confirmation from other races and/or trolls... Is it me? Is it luck? Is it scorch? The Dummys? (tested on two, both "skull" level). Whats wrong here?


Mageortom:
I do agree almost completely, except: you should not use combust when your procs up, you should wait for HU+HS+Procs and use alter time by then. Those ignites make comb big, combustion itself doesn't need procs/buffs.

last night i forgot to reforge back to hit cap, was at 13.73% hit all night last night, and didn't have a single miss on any spell through any encounter.

[Drimacus]

What was your weapon?

Maybe it has something to do with trolls?

[Deleted]

Hey Fire fellows,

I was reading this Thread a lot and I'm overall very happy with my DPS regarding my gear. There are some questions I still have:

I was thinking a lot about those Alter Time, PoM, HS, HU mechanics and there is one point I do not feel confident about. Most Mages are at about 45% crit, that means ~one out of two times I get an extra HS after my first HS is used. Since those P! do 25% more dmg I don't feel like I want to use those very last PoM Pyro - it may screw my ignite. Should I use it if I get a second HS, or better hit comb before the pom pyro?

Also, where do those mega-ignites come from? I don't get it. In most cases I get about 20-30k ignites, but in some cases they go up to 60k - why? Do I screw the ignite by not perfectly hitting the gcd? How can I make those Pyro-ignites "stack"? Sometimes they seem to do so...

What forums do you consult beside mmo champion? It seems to be most in-depth forum for mages right now - is that true?

Last but not least, thank you Mr. bad Guy Windry for the Thread!

Cheers,

Drima

Same, and that's why i use scorch instead of pom. why would you want to ruin your ignites with 2x25% less damage P!'s and if they don't crit it's wrose.

[Deleted]

2 x 25% less damage P!? wtf? how what where when?

[Imnick]

2 x 25% less damage P!? wtf? how what where when?

Hot Streak causes Pyroblast to do 25% more damage, which means that a PoM Pyroblast will do 25% less damage than usual, as we are not in the habit of casting Pyroblast at any other time than under HS if we can help it.

[Deleted]

Hmz, intresting, didnt know that one..... Still 2 PoMPyro still > 1,5 Fireballs. FB > !PB > POMPB > !PB is very much likely to still be the best combustion you can have

[mrgreenthump]

Same, and that's why i use scorch instead of pom. why would you want to ruin your ignites with 2x25% less damage P!'s and if they don't crit it's wrose.

Thing is though, that most mages use the HS+ HU before macro tactic, this means you cast fireball, use macro--> launches first HS at the same time as fireball.. leads to high chance of another HS lesser chance on another HS + HU, you use that HS(or pom pyro if neither fireball or HS crits), and depending on how close you are to the boss you can use 3rd HS in a row before cancelling alter time, and after that you just do 1x HS and pop combustion after the HS lands In most cases it leads to 3-4(5) HS pyros in a row and then 0-2 PoM pyroes in your combustion depending on your luck.

Now you can notice that if you are lucky PoM doesnt increase your combustion AT ALL, but in cases you are fairly unlucky and get lets say neither fireball or HS crit then you will need to use a PoM pyro to not do abysmal combustion.. given its still abysmal cause nothing crits

[Deleted]

Hmz, intresting, didnt know that one..... Still 2 PoMPyro still > 1,5 Fireballs. FB > !PB > POMPB > !PB is very much likely to still be the best combustion you can have

i dont think so, imo anyway. I think the most logical is without pom, you can line up 3 HS P!'s with AT if you do the right thing. If one of those pom P!'s fails to crit and it's usually the last to hit in your pre-comb combo then what's the whole point?

[Deleted]

on average as I did the calculations elsewhere wil have to dig them up, you are not as much dependant on actual crits which do matter..... but the fact that !PB lands within the 2 second allowed window between ignite ticks, this will mostly yield the best ignite/combustion...
I have to do some more maths on this but yeah that is a very big part of getting a good ignite/combustion on top of the rng factor of do they crit and in what order do they crit.

Obviously Crit-hit-hit-hit will be less desireable than Hit-hit-hit-crit

[Drimacus]

Now you can notice that if you are lucky PoM doesnt increase your combustion AT ALL, but in cases you are fairly unlucky and get lets say neither fireball or HS crit then you will need to use a PoM pyro to not do abysmal combustion.. given its still abysmal cause nothing crits

I do feel like the first PoM is good overall, but I do not feel confident about using the second pom (after alter time). In the end it's just a feeling and comb is simply one of the most random things in the game. You can reduce the amount of small ignites by using those techniques but those 60-80k ignites are like winning the lottery...
It would be interesting whats your guys "average" ignite after using pom/at with hu+hs? For me it's ~28k.

[Deleted]

guys i was wondering if we have any information about the new Comb change will make it better or worse compared to the actual Comb... =S just asking so i don't get a surprise next day.
i'm really sorry if yhis have been already talked >.<

[Shangalar]

guys i was wondering if we have any information about the new Comb change will make it better or worse compared to the actual Comb... =S just asking so i don't get a surprise next day.
i'm really sorry if yhis have been already talked >.<

I'd also love to know the answer to this question. In my opinion, it might be nerfed very very slightly. What I'm interested in is will this change increase the value of Mastery and by how much?

[mrgreenthump]

I'd also love to know the answer to this question. In my opinion, it might be nerfed very very slightly. What I'm interested in is will this change increase the value of Mastery and by how much?

Would think for people who know what they are doing its a slight buff. and I doubt it will impact mastery that much, maybe it will bring mastery infront of haste sooner but seeing as at BiS mastery was allready stronger for some races, I dont really see much changing