Arms Dps

[Fiercon]

OK, like I promised I took a video and Logs from the same fight. Please have mercy with me and my video-skills - it's the first one I ever recorded

When revisiting the video I see several points where I could have been a bit smarter (e.g. delayed HS too long) or more on my toes but all in all I think it pretty much shows what I can do.

Please tell me, if I'm doing something terribly wrong - I seriously hope so, I want to improve.

Log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-kb...0/?s=238&e=629
Video: http://youtu.be/0KSczZB2RUE ok, should work now
Character:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...unnok/advanced

I'm sorry that the names are all german, but that's my native language. WoL comes with the english Tooltip when you hover over a certain skill. If you need translations I'll gladly give them.

Please help out a fellow warrior
Greetz Fiercon aka. Hunnok

PS.: I bought some equipment and edited some gems, which leaves me with some overhead in exp/hit (0,25%ish). I'll remove it asap.

---------- Post added 2012-10-24 at 02:08 AM ----------

Added Video

[Deleted]

Alright, I just took a look mate, and I see a couple of things you can do better..

For one, you stand around alot when you're low on rage, instead of using your heroic leap + charge to get more rage.

Next, you should use your cooldowns together.. Recklessness is a 5 minute cooldown, if you use it in the start of a fight, you might be able to use it again on the same fight (ofcourse not possible on all bosses) - Using skull banner increases your CRIT DAMAGE by 20%, while recklessness (glyphed) gives 30% crit for 12 seconds PLUS your dragon roar is guaranteed to crit. On top of all this, what deals more damage(?): Bloodbath without critical hits OR Bloodbath with 30-50% damage boost from other CDs..?

For itemization; I'd suggest you get another trinket than agility, but I'm assuming you're just unlucky with drops. Your hit and expertise seems fine too, so no worries about that.

Talents and glyphs: Although your talents are what they should be, you're glyphed wrong.. You need Glyph of Recklessness, Heroic leap and Unending rage.

Unending rage let's you pool more rage for certain fights where you have to switch targets or just burst with CDs in a short time etc.
Heroic leap is for the CD to match your charge better, giving you more rage and uptime in general. You should get used to leap+charge every time you feel clueless. (Plus, it can be a dps boost if you actually hit something else with leap, some bosses might have a large enough hitbox for you to leap and hit your target)
Recklessness is simply just a boost in itself, but it also lasts longer and almost has the same duration as your skull banner with this one..


Honestly that's all I could figure for now, I haven't been 90 on my warrior for more than a week or so, but I think I've got a nice hold of it so far.
If you need any more advice, let me know, and I'll see if I can help!

Good morning!


EDIT: I forgot to add, once you get used to heroic leap + charge alot, you might even get too much rage in some situations.. I suggest throwing in some filler heroic strikes, instead of just trying to pop the rage-cap of 120.. Your overpower stacks still give your heroic strike quite a boost at 2 stacks, but it's even 20k damage without stacks, so it's a boost either way..

[Fiercon]

Hey Woopert, first of all thanks for the advice, it's very much appreciated! I'd like to go into some critics not for defense just moreso to clarify and maybe for getting even more input.

For one, you stand around alot when you're low on rage, instead of using your heroic leap + charge to get more rage.

Yes, this I will need to practise, although at the moment I fear it will result in alot of fuckup instead of more rage ... I fiddle too long with the placement of the leap and afterwards I'm to close to the boss to charge. Or is there any other possibility of charging that I'm not aware of?

Next, you should use your cooldowns together.. Recklessness is a 5 minute cooldown, if you use it in the start of a fight, you might be able to use it again on the same fight (ofcourse not possible on all bosses) - Using skull banner increases your CRIT DAMAGE by 20%, while recklessness (glyphed) gives 30% crit for 12 seconds PLUS your dragon roar is guaranteed to crit. On top of all this, what deals more damage(?): Bloodbath without critical hits OR Bloodbath with 30-50% damage boost from other CDs..?

Absolutely true. I did not use any cooldowns except BB which I teamed up with DR. But that's not because I don't like cooldowns I wanted to make the damage without large "raidcooldowns". Because I use Recklessness and Skullbanner at the beginning of a fight and in the execute phase I thought they would falsify my overall DPS on the dummy.

For itemization; I'd suggest you get another trinket than agility, but I'm assuming you're just unlucky with drops. Your hit and expertise seems fine too, so no worries about that.

Yes, I only took it for the hit it gave and will replace it as soon as I get lucky enough with a better one.

Talents and glyphs: Although your talents are what they should be, you're glyphed wrong.. You need Glyph of Recklessness, Heroic leap and Unending rage.

Unending is a nobrainer which I took too. The other both are open for speculation I guess.

Recklessness is simply just a boost in itself, but it also lasts longer and almost has the same duration as your skull banner with this one..

I think it may be helpfull, when timed with other large CD like Heroism and skullbanner - I'll definitely give it a shot. My raid won't need another sunder armor, so this one is easily fixed - thanks!

I forgot to add, once you get used to heroic leap + charge alot, you might even get too much rage in some situations.. I suggest throwing in some filler heroic strikes, instead of just trying to pop the rage-cap of 120.. Your overpower stacks still give your heroic strike quite a boost at 2 stacks, but it's even 20k damage without stacks, so it's a boost either way..

How do I leap/charge? If I'm close enough to hit the boss with leap I'm usually too close to charge ... As soon as I get that straight, the Leapglyph will make sense! As long as that doesn't work out I may be better of with the SS glyph (especiall for the stoneguards we are fighting this week).

So thanks again for your feedback!

Is there anything I can improve in terms of rotation, reaction? Do any of you others find anything totally wrong in my video? How the hell do you 90k guys pull it of? Is it merely leap-charging and better gear that make up +100% of my DPS?!

Thanks for all your help

Greetz
Fiercon aka Hunnok

[Deleted]

Glad to help mate..

The only other possibility of charging for rage that I'm aware of, is focus charging.. I suppose you'd have to make a mouseover focus macro along with a focus charge macro and use that together, but I still highly recommend practicing boss hitboxes and getting to know your leap ability, it's by far the most handy!

I've been in the WoW community in general for about 8 years now, and trust me.. NONE of these guys who've said they pull 100k dps etc etc (ALONG with myself, cause I pull 52k WITH CDs) are pulling it without all CDs!

Hit is good, but yeh you'll get a new trinket sooner or later ;D


As well as unending rage is a nobrainer, the others are somewhat nobrainers just aswell.. Sweeping strikes simply isn't enough of a rage-gainer for it to be worth it, and you'll loose alot of dps on single target bosses.


"How do I leap/charge? If I'm close enough to hit the boss with leap I'm usually too close to charge ... As soon as I get that straight, the Leapglyph will make sense! As long as that doesn't work out I may be better of with the SS glyph (especiall for the stoneguards we are fighting this week)."

About this: I think that came out of me wrong.. What I meant was, if you have a gap where you don't got any ability to fill, and you're not on 120 rage, you should leap away and charge.. If you don't got an ability to fill, but you DO have 120 rage (which seems illogical because then you would spam slam, but it does happen), then you'll want to leap onto the boss because leap doesn't go along with GCD.

Let me give an example.. You're standing on the left side of Mr. Raid boss, the gap situation occurs.. you can leap to the right side of Mr. Raid boss, still be behind him for getting past the 6-7% parry chance he might have, and you'll have used leap OUT of GCD, so it doesn't even break your slam-spamming.

^ Sorry 'bout the last 5 sentences being confusing as hell, but it's the best way I can explain it xD



"Is there anything I can improve in terms of rotation, reaction? Do any of you others find anything totally wrong in my video? How the hell do you 90k guys pull it of? Is it merely leap-charging and better gear that make up +100% of my DPS?!"

Remember those 90k guys might be exaggerating, and they're definately not on a raid target dummy, so don't worry about that all too much..

I don't think leap-charging does make up for it a 100%, but it's really all about the small things, I think you gain too little rage at times, and you use WAY less heroic strikes than I do in a single encounter.

I hope aswell that someone else has input, cause again.. I'm not the best warrior out there ^^

Cheers, Kens

[Shamanegans]

When you leap away if you don't aim at any adds or another target or anything and just leap far away then spam charge, you will charge mid flight of the leap. This is when you need rage only though.

If you don't need rage but are needing to fill a global CD leap right beside the boss to damage him. With the glyph you will need to feed leap into the fight because it deals a mess tone of damage with that glyph and has a small CD.

[Fiercon]

I don't think leap-charging does make up for it a 100%, but it's really all about the small things, I think you gain too little rage at times, and you use WAY less heroic strikes than I do in a single encounter.

So. much. this!
Really ... it annoys me to hell! Sitting on some 80-100 rage and then one single HS (because it has 2+ stacks TFB and aligns with enrage, CS) breaks my neck for the next two "Slamrounds" (MS+OP+Slam+Slam that is). I don't know what it is, but I feel like I'm not gaining enough rage at times :-/ ... I refrain from using HS in situations where you would want to pack in as many damaging abilities as possible (CS/Enrage align or large CDs).

Thanks for claryfing on the Leap and Charge thing. One is the "inbetween-boss" leap where you gain no rage but a bit of damage (cool) and the other one is for rage generation, where you may lose one swing by leaping away and re-charging the boss. I'll definitely give it a try. Gonna be fun watching me dummy-hopping -.-

[Succath]

I actually have leap and charge macro`d this way i can do a charge and leap at the same time and thus generate enough rage.
I am at work now but it hink i just made a macro and put in /cast Charge and then the next line /cast Heroic Leap

now the thing is when you charge you will also get the little green circle where you want to jump to.
If you can time this the right way you will charge and leap at the same time. or charge and then leap further if in a pvp situation.

hope this helps a abit. i use it a lot and it saves me an extra slot on my bar

[Deleted]

Please tell me, if I'm doing something terribly wrong - I seriously hope so, I want to improve.

The only other thing I'd like to add is that you don't want to be using Dragon Roar inside a CS, it already ignores armor so it's wasting a CS global. The rest will come with more gear, going from 463 heroic pieces to 476/489 raid gear is a huge leap.

[Fiercon]

The only other thing I'd like to add is that you don't want to be using Dragon Roar inside a CS, it already ignores armor so it's wasting a CS global. The rest will come with more gear, going from 463 heroic pieces to 476/489 raid gear is a huge leap.

Thanks for pointing this one out. It worries me a bit too.
Should I then - ideally - use BB and DR at different times? I know, they don't profit from each other, they just "share" a CD (as in: they got the same CD-length).
Because now I want to use bloodbath when it hits hardest - enrage/CS up.
I want to use Dragon roar when enrage is up but ideally not when CS is up because of the reasons you just mentioned.

At the moment this decisionmaking would overwhelm me ...
I'm still too close to "AMAGAWD CS' COOLDOWN'S UP GOTTA SPEND MOAR RAGE" especially when I'm bossfighting.
I even consider taking Cleave/HS from my bars for the time I still need to learn my rage control

[Deleted]

Thanks for pointing this one out. It worries me a bit too.
Should I then - ideally - use BB and DR at different times? I know, they don't profit from each other, they just "share" a CD (as in: they got the same CD-length).
Because now I want to use bloodbath when it hits hardest - enrage/CS up.
I want to use Dragon roar when enrage is up but ideally not when CS is up because of the reasons you just mentioned.

At the moment this decisionmaking would overwhelm me ...
I'm still too close to "AMAGAWD CS' COOLDOWN'S UP GOTTA SPEND MOAR RAGE" especially when I'm bossfighting.
I even consider taking Cleave/HS from my bars for the time I still need to learn my rage control

Just use BB/DR before you use CS or after the first CS window during a BB. As for rage control, just try and think ahead a few globals, if, for example, you know you've got to back-to-back slam soon then you probably don't want to use a hc strike, but if you've got a sudden death proc/ms/overpower coming up and your rage isn't really low then you can probably get away with a hc strike inside the next cs.

[Nakkí]

i will have another try with say Bloodbath/Dragons Roar and see how that goes.

Just a quick question about execute phase, is it best to save Reck/Banner for this phase In a fight that is sub 5 mins?

Yep, BB + DR is the way to go. I've tested out every combination and those gave me the best throughput. Have snatched several #1 WoL parses with 'em in the last two resets.

And yes, you'll definitely want to line up your Reck+Banner for the execute phase. Your rotational DPS should be highest at that point in almost any given scenario, so it's a surefire way to use those cooldowns right.

As an added tip, especially if you're using Bloodbath: make sure you pool up close-to-max rage just before the 20% mark so you can ensure the max amount of back-to-back executes inside the Potion+Reck+Bloodbath overlap window.

[Succath]

The only other thing I'd like to add is that you don't want to be using Dragon Roar inside a CS, it already ignores armor so it's wasting a CS global. The rest will come with more gear, going from 463 heroic pieces to 476/489 raid gear is a huge leap.

I was actually using DR inside a CS as well good point i never thought about that one. just that utilizing the best dps would normaly mean you would need to do it. but since its already alwasy a crit strike the does not matter.

tnx for that tip

[OscaR]

Is there anything I can improve in terms of rotation, reaction? Do any of you others find anything totally wrong in my video? How the hell do you 90k guys pull it of? Is it merely leap-charging and better gear that make up +100% of my DPS?!

gear, flask, potions, raid buffs, self buffs, execute phase add up to a lot. Some boss mechanics also increases your dps but admittedly a lot of them will decrease your dps due to uptime on the boss and stuff. But it's not just leap charging and gear.

[Laundry]

Im a raiding arms warrior and I thought I'd drop by to help with a few tips. I feel I've got to be somewhat credible because I do have a high rank. I'm currently 15th in the world on heroic 25 man Feng for arms warriors under the name Ovenmitt (This may change by the time you read this post. I was world 9th last night with 79.9k DPSe and 80k+ DPS).

There are a few key points that you want to look out for when deciding whether or not to use slam or heroic strike as your rage dump:

1) you used MS then OP, but OP didn't proc and you have 60+ rage. Obviously a time to use two slams (Unless CS procs). The same goes for when you get an OP proc but not a second one. Every MS is filled with 3 GCDs between. It clips MS by about .5 seconds lag permitting but its a DPS decrease to do nothing.

2) You want to use HS when you are repeatedly getting overpower procs and cannot stop using GCDs and are becoming close to rage capping. For instance, if you MS and then get 2 OP procs you're GCD capped and so the only way to dump the rage would be to heroic strike. THe good thing about heroic strike is that it's excellent for dumping rage in those clutch situations where you just need to.

Working on dumping your rage is an excellent way to ensure you are playing to the best of your ability. Once I mastered which dump I want to use and when, arms became quite the competitor. I'm most likely going to continue playing as arms until they fix what I believe to be a broken spec becaise it's 100% based around our secondary stat, crit.

EDIT: My character, in case you want gear references and such without going through WoL: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nmitt/advanced
And the report where I ranked: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wl...=11485&e=12013

[Nakkí]

One thing I've been wondering about but haven't gotten around to testing yet is whether it's better to leap-charge or to use glyphed Heroic Leap as a free DPS bonus between globals (which is what I've been doing so far and have found effective.)

Any pre-existing results on this yet?

[Opeth69]

I wouldn't advise leap chargings as the rage gained versus the global of damage lost probably isn't worth it, also you should ideally always use leap glyph and leap during a cs as it hit very hard so leaping away would be an even bigger damage loss in that scenario. I'm not entirely sold on glyph of reck either, for fury it kind of makes sense due to BT having double the crit chance so its much easier to keep enrage up for a longer period with reck, but for arms with most players at around 20% crit the glyph puts you in a position where you could easily go an entire reck with very few crits, or get lucky and burst incredibly hard, I just think more reliable crit is the way to go for arms but maybe Im wrong. I generally use unending rage, leap, and thunderclap for single target fights ( thunderclap glyphs nice if your rage starving and cant afford to slam you can often use TC instead which hits very hard with this glyph), for cleave fights Ill altenate SS glyph/tc glyph etc

[Accaris]

EDIT: My character, in case you want gear references and such without going through WoL: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nmitt/advanced
And the report where I ranked: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wl...=11485&e=12013

Arms is so incredibly weapon dependent. My ilvl is higher than yours and I still got dumped to the very bottom of the charts on Feng because of my blue wep. Regardless of rotation efficiency, going from heroic to Starshatter with Bladedancer is like night and day.

[Nakkí]

I'm not entirely sold on glyph of reck either

Same here, mostly due to unglyphed Reck having such sweet synergy with Bloodbath twice per fight.
Although, I'm on sunder duty in any case so can't really choose lol. :P

[Deleted]

One thing I've been wondering about but haven't gotten around to testing yet is whether it's better to leap-charge or to use glyphed Heroic Leap as a free DPS bonus between globals (which is what I've been doing so far and have found effective.)

Any pre-existing results on this yet?

Well I've been critting 150k with heroic leap with CDs, but it's strongly dependant on Colossus Smash debuff being up.. for some reason it scales much higher than other attacks.. (Personal Expirience anyway)..

[Nakkí]

Well I've been critting 150k with heroic leap with CDs, but it's strongly dependant on Colossus Smash debuff being up.. for some reason it scales much higher than other attacks.. (Personal Expirience anyway)..

Thought about this some more after testing both variations during trash on yesterday's raid. I'm pretty much convinced offensive leap use is the way to go.

Pros & cons:

Leap for damage:
+ fair amount of free extra damage on top of the normal rotation
- nothing really

Leap + Charge:
+ more rage, potentially allowing for an extra heroic strike or a slam
- miss out on the extra damage potential
- trigger charge's cooldown, which in many cases has better uses in encounters
- very easy to delay the next gcd if leap+charge timing & travel time is less than perfect, further amplifying the damage loss
- heroic throw already fills the role of emergency filler global in cases of unexpected rage starvation
-- the extra damage in itself can already rival and surpass whichever filler one would use after charging in any case