Rogue 5.1 PTR buffs

[kanepyo89]

okay lets think about it. prep isnt just for defensive... how many rogues right now are actucally pulling off vanish+ saps in 3's? none really... we dont have the mobility to even vanish and sap a target and go for a kill... like fearing a target then going to sap and re open to a smoke bomb and dance and score a kill. we spend our whole time right now just trying to stay alive. im currently running RPD and its a shit storm of trying to survive long enough until a someone trinkets and we can hard swap to the kill target. we literally have to smoke bomb and have a dance to get a kill.

SHADOW STEP/PREP BACK WOULD BE AMAZING!

fuck the damn 45 second cool down of sprint. that doesnt help us at all. if it got us out of roots then yes it could help...

[Illana]

assassination is a lot like what it was in wotlk if you choose prep over step and i didn't see so much QQ then about rogues being underpowered.

Most of the people crying about rogues being weak started in cata and most likely s11.

These buffs are pretty inconsequential if i'm going to be honest. Wound poison wasn't being used cause the damage from deadly was so much better that 25% healing debuff wasn't even enough to make it worth it. This will just make wound poison usable in pvp again.

1minute blind should have been done an expansion ago where cata and now mop doubled the amount of cc in the game, 2 and 3 minute cooldowns doesn't make any sense in todays pvp scenario.

sprint on 45 second cooldown i think works since rogues lost 70% crip poison and now don't have as much uptime as they did.

Burst of speed was a good change since it just cost way too much energy for what you were getting and it might be an actual competitor to step and prep.

All in all some nice quality of life changes and rogues will remain pretty decent. Warriors need to be toned down and then most of the melee classes will be pretty balanced.

P.S. make enhancement viable for one season please, just one.

[Wow]

assassination is a lot like what it was in wotlk if you choose prep over step and i didn't see so much QQ then about rogues being underpowered.

Its almost like the game has changed tons since wotlk.

[Illana]

Its almost like the game has changed tons since wotlk.

yeah but that's why I said assassination is a lot like and not "exactly the same"

there's a ton of things assassination has now that it didn't in wotlk but the playstyle is essentially the same: stunlock and spam as much damage into the target as possible. Blind what you can etc

there was never any interesting play with assassination cause it didn't have the potential like subtlety, even though sub was completely arse-up broken in s11 a lot of interesting things that weren't possible with rogues before started happening like sapping people off ccs, step kicking/gouging/kidneying/sapping and setting up burst with dance.

all of these things existed before cata ofc, but it never really became popular until they buffed sub damage.

If you ever watched any pre-cata muti videos personally I found them incredibly boring because all you can really do as muti is tunnel one target and if you ever try and peel off to cc something else it's so obvious that you'll just get countered.

[Khrayzee Gaming]

What you say about assassination may be a little true but the new talent system and the changes have made it more possible for every spec of rogue to be just as viable as the last in terms of pvp. For example with moves like versatility you dont have to tunnel in on one person all the time and with SS or BoS you get great mobility in each spec. So if anything its nice to finally peel away from the whole "better play sub or you suck" playstyle. (in which i know you didnt say that im just sayin).

[Deleted]

I (full PVP gear) fought against a protection paladin (full PVE gear) and I really saw that Subtlety needs Serrated Blades back. I couldn't keep up Slice and Dice, Rupture and stun while being able to Eviscerate or even Recuperate. Plus, all his CC was non-avoidable, while all mine (except blind) was.

I really doubt Assassination can do better than Subtlety due to lack of good burst and the extra control that Shadow Dance gives.

---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 10:09 AM ----------

Btw sendai, your signature is out of date

Actually not exactly. A poster in the US forums keeps insisting that stealth was slighty nerfed compared to Cataclysm and that the hotfix of few weeks ago still didn't bring it to Cataclysm levels. I'm not detected often, so I'm not sure.

The rest stands though. Lazy skill...

[Illana]

assassination does a lot better cause poisons hit really hard, you'd also be surprised how much burst you can get with vendetta up.

[Deleted]

assassination does a lot better cause poisons hit really hard, you'd also be surprised how much burst you can get with vendetta up.

Every two minutes and provides no other bonuses like the possibility of using extra stuns, silences or get that sap and so on. I rather control stuff and let my team-mates do the killing.

[Illana]

Every two minutes and provides no other bonuses like the possibility of using extra stuns, silences or get that sap and so on. I rather control stuff and let my team-mates do the killing.

then sub is clearly the spec for you, however to all the "OMFG I HAVE NO DAMAGE" rogues, try assassination.

[Deleted]

then sub is clearly the spec for you, however to all the "OMFG I HAVE NO DAMAGE" rogues, try assassination.

I didn't say "no damage", I said "no burst". It's not exactly the same and semantics are important here.

[Evolixe]

Actually not exactly. A poster in the US forums keeps insisting that stealth was slighty nerfed compared to Cataclysm and that the hotfix of few weeks ago still didn't bring it to Cataclysm levels. I'm not detected often, so I'm not sure.

The rest stands though. Lazy skill...

I call bullshit on that. Stealth level is exactly what it was at level 85 in comparison.

then sub is clearly the spec for you, however to all the "OMFG I HAVE NO DAMAGE" rogues, try assassination.

Subtlety does better damage than Assasination...

People just don't know how to play.

[Illana]

I didn't say "no damage", I said "no burst". It's not exactly the same and semantics are important here.

burst under dance is a little low right now since weapons are pretty low ilevel, it's an issue that will gradually fade away as better weapons become available.

[Evolixe]

burst under dance is a little low right now since weapons are pretty low ilevel, it's an issue that will gradually fade away as better weapons become available.

What? Burst under dance is amazing, and when something crits.. you might aswell hide yo kids.

[Deleted]

So many rogues who play sub and dont realize they need to pool energy to use dance effectively around these days, By taking a bit of time researching or watching a stream or two you would see sub Rogues can still contribute to damage and kills if played correctly.

[Illana]

What? Burst under dance is amazing, and when something crits.. you might aswell hide yo kids.

i thought you had to get crits to make dance good =S and they removed the crit buff for ambush above 90% hp

[Evolixe]

i thought you had to get crits to make dance good =S and they removed the crit buff for ambush above 90% hp

Now ambush no longer has that permanent crit, it does alot more damage. And can still crit.

When it does... yeah.

[redderz1]

The buffs are nice. Though I would like to see vanish and ShS CD's reduced also. Perhaps even a minute off Shadowblades.

My only other gripes is how weak our specials hit (I'm actually seeing a priest fiend hit me for more than I can backstab for).


As for the burst discussion. Assa can burst OK if you pop Vendetta and shadowblades AND get some blindside Procs. But its not a brutal as Sub.

With sub the best way I've found to burst is with anticipation and shadowblades during a Dance. Ambush up to 10 points and a couple of 5 pt eviscerates. If a couple of your ambush's crit and one of your Evis crits you might well have done 200k+ damage during the dance.

[Deleted]

burst under dance is a little low right now since weapons are pretty low ilevel, it's an issue that will gradually fade away as better weapons become available.

No, it's not. Burst with Shadow Dance is kinda brutal and I'm wearing a LFR dagger.

[Evolixe]

Shadow Blades has the right cooldown for the strength it has. Any less would make it massively OP.

[Knuckle]

Shadow Blades has the right cooldown for the strength it has. Any less would make it massively OP.

I don't PvP but I have no idea how you can see an 8 second burst window every 2min as massively OP. Especially considering how bad subs damage is outside of dance/FW.