New Warlock Spell - Cataclysm

[jackvii]

Please stop designing locks by a different set of rules than other classes. Arggh!!!!

This does feel like the case, for the first time in 8 years I feel almost like a balanced class whose weaknesses can be compensated for somewhat. Between Blood Fear, Resolve and Dark Bargain, the endless 'melee punching bag' playstyle feels alleviated somewhat compared to what it's been in the past. But now I feel like a balanced class in a world of OP classes. . .

[Doktor Faustus]

Only destruction gets this? Unfair!

Nah, we need all the extras we can get atm!

[Sylar Hao]

Maybe this is too much asking for, but what if enemy players standing in the Cataclysm area while channeling get a weak snare/slow effect (25% or something), so once the warlock starts casting the enemy player must choose to unleash its damage on him before the channeling completes to land the kill on the warlock. If the players think he/they can't kill the warlock, then they still can choose to run away and escape, so the warlock and the enemy remain the same when it ends, but also the warlock has a bigger chance to land the spell and knockback+stun them.

So it would create 2 windows, one to turbo-focus the lock while he's channeling to kill him and one to allow the warlock get that space room after the channeling completes if he's still alive to unleash a lot of preassure (through Havoc+Chaos for example).

[pokeadott]

Forcing people to use half the cooldowns you listed makes it worth it alone.

Why do you want the most counterable CC in the game so badly? Risk vs. reward needs to be balanced. Best example - fake casting vs. interrupts. It's a cat&mouse game where you can either end up CCing yourself while juking or pulling out a missed kick/MF/rebuke and being able to full Fear. A 3 sec cast that can't be stopped when started fails at risk vs. reward. At 3 seconds there is an eternity for your opponent to counter by moving or using an ability. Moreover, if a DK pops AMS 2.5 sec into the cast, I can't just stop the channel and wait out AMS - I'm stuck wasting my big 60sec CD + dealing with a free 2.5sec of extra dps time on me by the DK.

I would gladly trade the failfest that is cata for a 1.5 sec interruptable cast, single target knockback, that doesn't even stun or daze (let's call it ghettophoon). At least at 1.5 seconds I have a chance of landing it, and I can always juke/cancel if they pop a CD.

Xel is the one saying that an ability can't bee to powerful if it doesn't have enough cost, yet he is the one giving us a 5sec AoE stun/knockback that damages. I don't need all that! Just let me get ONE target off of me for a few seconds, so I can cast a couple spells once every 30-45 seconds. Why the hell is that so difficult?

[Nikijih]

Essentially this skill went from "situational" to "when am i ever gonna use that..." really quickly. Fact is, its counter-productive to itself:

1) Is it meant as a CC? Then why does it CC the warlock himself for 3 seconds while offering easy counterability for its opponent? Why can it simply be walked out of in 0.5? This is literally a bigger hit to the warlock then to whoever is targetted.
2) Is it meant as a gap opener? Then why does it telegraph itself like a 12 foot high neon stick so that everyone may ignore it with a lower-CD skill (AMS, CoS, Leap/charge, etc) while forcing me to stand still with no garantee of a punt?
3) Is it a defensive CD? Then why is it that it forces me to stand still and take damage for 3 seconds in order to even do anything? To be fair, removing the anti-kill aspect removed the defensive aspect.

I have to ask: what is this skill supposed to be for? Is this another "gateway"? Another one of those things that is awsome every blue moon and useless the rest of the time? Its not usable as a CC, its counter-productive as a gap opener, and it doesnt have anything defensive about it anymore.

IMO here is what you should do with this spell:
The warlock channels for 4 seconds. Stuns everyone in 10 yards at the beggining of the cast, stun lasts as long as the warlock is channeling. At the end of the channel, targets will be knocked back. While casting, the warlock becomes immuned to CCs but can still be interrupted

Now THATS a version of this skill I could get behind. It still has a heavy cost (1 ember, requires the lock to CC himself for 4 seconds, can be countered by ranged interrupts), but it can (A) be used as a form of CC to combo with other players, (B) be used as a form of gap opener granted it is not interrupted by a ranged player, (C) be used as a defensive maneuver to buy time for heals against heavy melee encounters. At the end of the day it would be a counterable ability that offers versatily and originality. IMO a damage component would take it over the top. As you said: everything has to have a price: having CC, opener and dmg all in one would require it to be mediocre in all 3 areas.

Please stop designing locks by a different set of rules than other classes

I have to agree with this somewhat. I am behind xel: gains needs costs. However, being the only one keeping that balance in a world of instant free spells is making us fight uphill at all times.

[wholol]

Essentially this skill went from "situational" to "when am i ever gonna use that..." really quickly. Fact is, its counter-productive to itself:

1) Is it meant as a CC? Then why does it CC the warlock himself for 3 seconds while offering easy counterability for its opponent? Why can it simply be walked out of in 0.5? This is literally a bigger hit to the warlock then to whoever is targetted.
2) Is it meant as a gap opener? Then why does it telegraph itself like a 12 foot high neon stick so that everyone may ignore it with a lower-CD skill (AMS, CoS, Leap/charge, etc) while forcing me to stand still with no garantee of a punt?
3) Is it a defensive CD? Then why is it that it forces me to stand still and take damage for 3 seconds in order to even do anything? To be fair, removing the anti-kill aspect removed the defensive aspect.

I have to ask: what is this skill supposed to be for? Is this another "gateway"? Another one of those things that is awsome every blue moon and useless the rest of the time? Its not usable as a CC, its counter-productive as a gap opener, and it doesnt have anything defensive about it anymore.

IMO here is what you should do with this spell:
The warlock channels for 4 seconds. Stuns everyone in 10 yards at the beggining of the cast, stun lasts as long as the warlock is channeling. At the end of the channel, targets will be knocked back. While casting, the warlock becomes immuned to CCs but can still be interrupted

Now THATS a version of this skill I could get behind. It still has a heavy cost (1 ember, requires the lock to CC himself for 4 seconds, can be countered by ranged interrupts), but it can (A) be used as a form of CC to combo with other players, (B) be used as a form of gap opener granted it is not interrupted by a ranged player, (C) be used as a defensive maneuver to buy time for heals against heavy melee encounters. At the end of the day it would be a counterable ability that offers versatily and originality. IMO a damage component would take it over the top. As you said: everything has to have a price: having CC, opener and dmg all in one would require it to be mediocre in all 3 areas.

I have to agree with this somewhat. I am behind xel: gains needs costs. However, being the only one keeping that balance in a world of instant free spells is making us fight uphill at all times.

I agree with your overall philosophy, but the spell you've stated is only a minor improvement, you can only stun while being stunned yourself , so to say.

why must warlocks have a stun in which the warlock himself is unable to perform any actions ? this is very similar to the design of GoSac: Succubus giving seduction to the warlock, do you not find it absurd that the lock has to channel a seduce to CC someone yet being unable to do anything during that time?( I really think GoSac succubus should give something else, like the knockback or short term invis instead).

Although I understand what you had planned ,overall cataclysm can go towards several directions atm:

1) either go back to how it was before, meaning it becomes more a defensive ability, where the warlock channels and is immune to dmg for 4 secs, basically this spell becomes a situational CC but more of a defensive ability in oh shit moments( the fact that it can be cast while CCed just increases it's usefulness as an iceblock mimic).
2) remove everything defensive about it, but significantly reduce it's channel time , 1-2 sec channel no immunity or anything like that tbh, just make it so the cd /ember is consumed after the channel is completed in case of it being interrupted during that.
3)totally focus this into a single target spell, remove the aoe aspect entirely, making it instant in the process, so only 1 target gets knocked back/ stunned, still costs an ember/ 1 min cd though.

but whatever you do, please let it be a physical debuff not a magical so it's usefulness is double that of a magical stun , and at least make it off shadowfury DR ( i'd go for an entirely different DR, like rogues' paralytic poison ).

[Tya]

I would gladly trade the failfest that is cata for a 1.5 sec interruptable cast, single target knockback, that doesn't even stun or daze (let's call it ghettophoon). At least at 1.5 seconds I have a chance of landing it, and I can always juke/cancel if they pop a CD.

Wow. This is why you're not a designer. Nor am I, for that matter, but really. What's the point in copy-pasting other class's abilities?

Cataclysm is a tool that I can really see myself enjoying. If it sucks, then it sucks, and warlocks would be balanced around it sucking.

However, I sincerely do not think it will. I think people here are just not thinking in terms of a team environment.

Though even for 1v1, Cata sounds useful.

[Nikijih]

I agree with your overall philosophy, but the spell you've stated is only a minor improvement, you can only stun while being stunned yourself , so to say.

Its a trade-off. You get to stun multiple foes AND knock them back at the end, effectively extending the CC even furter. The cost? You CC yourself.

Two things can happen:
1) Its a team fight, in which case you CCing multiple ennemies could serve as a Peel while also providing a burst setup for allies.
2) Its a 1v1, in which case you are still provided with a great un-interruptable knockback.

Also keep in mind we are a pet class despite GoSac being available, meaning that while you are both CCed, your pet can still damage him, giving you the advantage in that exchange.

I get what you mean by it being frustrating to a certain extend that warlocks always have to pay for gaining anything when NO OTHER CLASS ever has to. Lore is just a BS excuse. Want extended dot duration? Sure, but here is less damage! Want a skill to get away from a melee? Sure, but it'll do more damage to you then he would have! Want an extra CC? Sure, but you have to channel it!

While warriors are getting ressource-free low CD stuff thrown at them and mages get to hop around spaming instant casts we are stuck with these ridiculous drawbacks at all turn. Hell, our only 2 DPS glyphs are actually a DPS loss! Its like our devs dont get that being a balanced class is underpowered in an environment where no one else bothers with it and just piles up OP crap like 2nd wind and shockwave.

That being said, im still taking xel's philosophy into account when suggesting changes, hence the whole "CCing yourself to CC multiple opponents" One way or another, it cant be worst then the current version which is essentially "CC yourself for a chance to CC bad players".

[paulywally]

Warlocks have always been a life sacrificing class.

We kill ourselves to blow the world up

nothing new here folks.

[Nikijih]

Warlocks have always been a life sacrificing class.

We kill ourselves to blow the world up

nothing new here folks.

The problem is that the rest of the playerbase has caught up.

Killing yourself to blow the world sounds great... until you reallize everyone else can also blow the world while staying alive. Metaphores aside: having a greater cost only works out if you also have a greater effect. If other players can pull the same numbers without the downsides, then you are the textbook definition of underpowered.

Keep in mind that locks had health costs because we also had health regen. We were the self-healers, and the only self-healers. Thats why we were also the only ones with health costs. It balanced out. Now everyone else has self-healing, but we are still the only ones with health costs. Its broken. We are fighting an uphill battle against our own outdated mechanics.

[Ichifails]

Cataclysm and how it works with level 90 talents. (Yes it works with MF \o/ )

[darkminaz]

sadly it kinda takes to long, still amazing for pve i guess instant immo on all targets
+ the other buffs (still better then fire and brimstone what ticks for 50%) btw what happens if you cancel the attack? immo stays up only stun and knockback go away right? please say yes i don't wana cannel 4 secs just for a useless pve stun and a knockback that everyone (including me) will hate for it

it's not ending our problems but it gives me hope, mages (maybe) get nerfed, destru gets a buff, we get green fire (plxplxplx) gateway still suxx but it doesn't vanish if you run away and lasts 10min longer .. all in all .. no nerfs so it's a good patch

BUUUUT i still hope they fix the wand bug or let me change the elegon wand in a normal dagger .. just a simple npc who likes wands and gives a dagger with the same crappy stats

[Phoenexis]

Am I the only one that would like to see it work like the old Howl of Terror? A 1.5 second cast that's interruptable and can be stopped. Your opponents can react in many ways but so can you.

[paulywally]

The problem is that the rest of the playerbase has caught up.

Killing yourself to blow the world sounds great... until you reallize everyone else can also blow the world while staying alive. Metaphores aside: having a greater cost only works out if you also have a greater effect. If other players can pull the same numbers without the downsides, then you are the textbook definition of underpowered.

Keep in mind that locks had health costs because we also had health regen. We were the self-healers, and the only self-healers. Thats why we were also the only ones with health costs. It balanced out. Now everyone else has self-healing, but we are still the only ones with health costs. Its broken. We are fighting an uphill battle against our own outdated mechanics.

Its the aspect of the move.

You do realize they arn't giving you every move to be a dps increase compared to other classes.

This game wasn't founded on a God damn dps meter, it was founded on cool ass moves, that worked as intended. Blowing yourself up is epic, and i like it. Even if the other person lives, im ok with that because its such a cool ass move.
{◕ ◡ ◕}

I'm a happy camper.

[Supernex]

Its the aspect of the move.

You do realize they arn't giving you every move to be a dps increase compared to other classes.

This game wasn't founded on a God damn dps meter, it was founded on cool ass moves, that worked as intended. Blowing yourself up is epic, and i like it. Even if the other person lives, im ok with that because its such a cool ass move.
{◕ ◡ ◕}

I'm a happy camper.

pauly you write a lot of posts with extremely absurd comments , sometimes I wonder what the heck you're saying really.

I am going to have to agree with wholol on this.

[pokeadott]

Am I the only one that would like to see it work like the old Howl of Terror? A 1.5 second cast that's interruptable and can be stopped. Your opponents can react in many ways but so can you.

That's the only way I'd like the ability. Nerf the hell out of the stun/knockback/damage it you have to, but that's the only way I would want it. Reduced CC effect that's actually usable is infinitely preferable. And cast vs interrupt is good risk vs. reward (still).

Even leaving all the other instant AoE CC's out of the picture, just compare Cata to its closest neighbors:

Ring of Frost: 30sec CD, 2 sec cast, instant activation, full target CC for 8 seconds, persists on the ground after casting, can EASILY set it up with Nova or PoM, can be juked.

Capacitor totem: 45 sec CD, instant cast, 5 sec activation, can EASILY be set up with Totemic Projection or Earthgrab/FrozenPower


How is cata considered balanced when spells like this are given to other casters? Seriously Xel - I get that you don't like the way other devs have designed spells. But don't punish us because of it.

[Rotted]

It's official, nobody at all reads the patch notes.


Cataclysm is a new Destruction-only ability. It channels over 4 seconds, applying Immolate to all targets in 10 yards, knocking them back, and stunning them. The cast cannot be interrupted through any means, and the Warlock cannot be killed while channeling it.

Source: Datamined patch notes, build 16155 published 17/10/2012

Wowhead Link, it's not on mmo-champ's yet.

Only 3 words can say how Im feeling right now

WHAT THE HELL

[paulywally]

I am going to have to agree with wholol on this.

Was that even in this thread?

Lmao.

I'll just be going now......

/walks out of thread with head down.

---------- Post added 2012-10-21 at 04:50 PM ----------

/walks back into thread


I was also thinking, will cataclysm have the option to be green?

lol, pretty sure it'd be purely orgasmic to see a cataclysm...green... (>.>)

[Deleted]

i love this spell its not like a standard dumb "5SEC STUN 50SEC CD INSTANT" kinda shit and i think its awesome. + its the only spell with a knockback + stun as far as i know (dragon roar isn't a real stun neither a knockback)

[Paranoid Android]

So just Destro? Wow I hate Affclition has no ground aoe that we can use especially for pvp and finding stealthies or getting into combat. I hate knowing their is a stealth around and as Afflic i just have to sit there and let them open up. Yes I don't take howl of terror.