Inscription and Spirits of Harmony

[Bonsaii]

Hey all, I usually don't complain about grinds, because they're usually fair. The problem here is that inscription have a horrible deal compared to other professions.
A BS or LW can use their spirits to craft gear and charge a high price for the use.
Engineer's are in a similar boat where they can make BoE items(scopes, dragonling, mounts) along with their head armor using Spirits.

On the other side an Alchemist can spend 3 Spirits of Harmony with 3 trillium bars(opposed to 6) to ignore the 1 day cooldown of living steel transmutes.
The same is true for a tailor, less windwool cloth than the 1 day cooldown with 3 Spirits of Harmony to create and Imperial Silk.
Next we have a JC, which can spend 3 Spirits of Harmony with no other mats to discover a gem cut of a random color.

Any profession can use 3 Spirits of Harmony with fewer mats and ignore the one day cooldown of their profession.

Now here's inscription, 5 Spirits of Harmony with 5 Starlight Ink to make a quest item that we have to turn in to get a Scroll of Wisdom. This is opposed to a one day CD to make a Scroll of Wisdom using 3 Ink of Dreams with just paper. Does anyone else see the problem here?
We have to spend more Spirits of Harmony to ignore our one day CD than all the other professions. In addition to that we have to spend more mats!

Scribes should be able to spend 3 Spirits of Harmony with Ink of Dreams to create a scroll of Wisdom off of the 1 day cooldown.
This method should not allow us to discover an extra glyph recipe, perhaps add in a different spell that uses Spirits of Harmony to learn a new glyph but does not produce a Scroll of Wisdom.

I'm not complaining about the Spirit of Harmony addition, I just think it should be balanced for everyone and not screw one profession. You think I have a leg to stand on here?

[parkerlynne]

3 spirits of harmony lets you make a living steel for 300g less (on my server) off cd. 3 spirits worth of lotus is worth over 2k (on my server) so I'm not wasting them on a silly living steel.

[Bonsaii]

3 spirits of harmony lets you make a living steel for 300g less (on my server) off cd. 3 spirits worth of lotus is worth over 2k (on my server) so I'm not wasting them on a silly living steel.

Does that mean that Scribes should have to use more to make their one day CD? Nope!

[Naibil]

I agree with you. Having an alternative that skips the daily CD would be nice.
Though it would have to use Starlight Ink instead of In of Dreams.

[Bonsaii]

I agree with you. Having an alternative that skips the daily CD would be nice.
Though it would have to use Starlight Ink instead of In of Dreams.

Why? Every other profession gets to use less mats to do their Spirits of Harmony CD. Alchemy; 3 Trillium instead of 6. Tailoring; 5 Windwool bolts as opposed to 8. Jewelcrafting; no gems at all opposed to 3.

[Windfury]

Why? Every other profession gets to use less mats to do their Spirits of Harmony CD. Alchemy; 3 Trillium instead of 6. Tailoring; 5 Windwool bolts as opposed to 8. Jewelcrafting; no gems at all opposed to 3.

And what is the value of those mats compared to ink? Trillium is 250g to 5g on ink on my server, they're still spending way more. The spirit to skip a CD is a dumb use of a spirit for every profession. People who can craft gear should be using them for that and pmuch everyone else should be using them for lotus atm. Inscription has it no worse in that department than any of the non gear crafting professions. Is it a stupid division? Yes, but it's not just an issue for inscription.

[Raugnaut]

Completely agreed with you. At the very least, reduce the Spirit cost.

[Seranthor]

Hey all, I usually don't complain about grinds, because they're usually fair. The problem here is that inscription have a horrible deal compared to other professions.
A BS or LW can use their spirits to craft gear and charge a high price for the use.
Engineer's are in a similar boat where they can make BoE items(scopes, dragonling, mounts) along with their head armor using Spirits.

On the other side an Alchemist can spend 3 Spirits of Harmony with 3 trillium bars(opposed to 6) to ignore the 1 day cooldown of living steel transmutes.
The same is true for a tailor, less windwool cloth than the 1 day cooldown with 3 Spirits of Harmony to create and Imperial Silk.
Next we have a JC, which can spend 3 Spirits of Harmony with no other mats to discover a gem cut of a random color.

Any profession can use 3 Spirits of Harmony with fewer mats and ignore the one day cooldown of their profession.

Now here's inscription, 5 Spirits of Harmony with 5 Starlight Ink to make a quest item that we have to turn in to get a Scroll of Wisdom. This is opposed to a one day CD to make a Scroll of Wisdom using 3 Ink of Dreams with just paper. Does anyone else see the problem here?
We have to spend more Spirits of Harmony to ignore our one day CD than all the other professions. In addition to that we have to spend more mats!

Scribes should be able to spend 3 Spirits of Harmony with Ink of Dreams to create a scroll of Wisdom off of the 1 day cooldown.
This method should not allow us to discover an extra glyph recipe, perhaps add in a different spell that uses Spirits of Harmony to learn a new glyph but does not produce a Scroll of Wisdom.

I'm not complaining about the Spirit of Harmony addition, I just think it should be balanced for everyone and not screw one profession. You think I have a leg to stand on here?

question... isn't inscription the only class than can make epic level stuff w/o using SOH? I'm pretty sure that the epic level shoulder enchants dont require SOH... someone correct me on this... and you can pump those out as fast as you have ink available... No other profession has that benefit... want to give that up?

[Bonsaii]

And what is the value of those mats compared to ink? Trillium is 250g to 5g on ink on my server, they're still spending way more. The spirit to skip a CD is a dumb use of a spirit for every profession. People who can craft gear should be using them for that and pmuch everyone else should be using them for lotus atm. Inscription has it no worse in that department than any of the non gear crafting professions. Is it a stupid division? Yes, but it's not just an issue for inscription.

I want to craft a staff for myself or a fan for myself/friends, I need scrolls of wisdom. Same if I want to make darkmoon cards.
Whether or not you feel me using my spirits for a CD is dumb, in the end, they are mine to spend how I like. I am currently trying to craft myself a staff, why should I have to use more Spirits than a tailor wanting an imperial silk to make himself a chest piece or whatever.

---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 03:48 AM ----------

question... isn't inscription the only class than can make epic level stuff w/o using SOH? I'm pretty sure that the epic level shoulder enchants dont require SOH... someone correct me on this... and you can pump those out as fast as you have ink available... No other profession has that benefit... want to give that up?

On my server that Ink sells for 90g a piece on the high end(Meaning 270g an enchant), a leg enchant by a tailor is about 800 on the cheap end. In addition the going rate on my server to sell a Scroll of Wisdom is around 400-500g. A tailor can usually sell their silk for about 700-850g. Most of the inscription stuff comes out on the lower cost end compared to other professions, it's balanced out. The prices account for it and the scroll of wisdom is in no way relevant to shoulder enchants.

[Seranthor]

On my server that Ink sells for 90g a piece on the high end(Meaning 270g an enchant), a leg enchant by a tailor is about 800 on the cheap end. In addition the going rate on my server to sell a Scroll of Wisdom is around 400-500g. A tailor can usually sell their silk for about 700-850g. Most of the inscription stuff comes out on the lower cost end compared to other professions, it's balanced out. The prices account for it and the scroll of wisdom is in no way relevant to shoulder enchants.

How about I rephrase...

Sure... lets lower your SOH use on the bypass to say um... 3... but lets ADD a component to your shoulder enchants that REQUIRE SOH... would that be acceptable with you?

[Windfury]

I want to craft a staff for myself or a fan for myself/friends, I need scrolls of wisdom. Same if I want to make darkmoon cards. I am currently trying to craft myself a staff, why should I have to use more Spirits than a tailor wanting an imperial silk to make himself a chest piece or whatever.

That's a problem with the mats cost of pieces, not with the base system of using harmony to skip a CD period.

Regardless I'm not really seeing it.

A fan costs 5 scrolls of wisdom (if made entirely with spirits that's 15 spirits), a DM card costs 1 (3 harmony), and a shoulder enchant costs 0 harmony. The tailoring items using Imperial Silk can be found here: http://www.wowhead.com/item=82447#reagent-for. With the exception of gloves all require more than 5 pieces of Silk (all therefore costing more than 15 spirits, except gloves, which cost 12), and leg enchants require 1 (3 harmony). Equivalent inscription pieces are worth substantially more on the market (compare a DM card with a leg enchant - both worth 3 harmony to make yet DMCs are worth 3-10 times as much to sell depending on what you proc).

Sure a weapon costs 20 scrolls, but if you look at all the really good silk pieces (which I'd consider the equivalent to crafting a weapon) you'll notice they also require Blood Spirits, making tailors have to raid for pieces, and also imposing an unskippable raid lockout CD on tailors, which scribes don't have to deal with at all if they don't want to. And don't forget that tailors have to spend a substantial amount of time grinding rep at level 90 to even get/learn their recipes, when inscription's come right from the trainer and can be learned by any toon over level 80.

Sounds to me like tailoring is the one losing here, where their mats cost and demands aren't higher the sales price for their items is lower than a scribes. There is literally only one exception to that (gloves) out of all of the items both professions can craft. Add that in to the fact that scribes have substantially higher earning potential and I really can't understand why a scribe would be complaining about tailoring.

I really am just shaking my head over the fact that someone is saying scribes are hard done by when compared to tailors right now.

Whether or not you feel me using my spirits for a CD is dumb, in the end, they are mine to spend how I like. I am currently trying to craft myself a staff, why should I have to use more Spirits than a tailor wanting an imperial silk to make himself a chest piece or whatever.

Sure, but complaining that illogical choices aren't well supported doesn't make much sense either.

Yes a staff will take you 20 days to make if you don't use spirits, but you can use spirits and skip that, and the cost of doing that is getting stung for a lot of spirits. A tailor who wants to make a really good piece has to level to 90, grind rep with 3 factions, raid for a couple of weeks, and then can craft equivalent pieces. Yes you're being stung for more if you want to make a staff *right this instant*, but that's pretty good given that right this instant is possible for you and everyone else has to grind rep and sometimes raid and thus can't do anything at all right this instant, no matter how much they want to.

Do what was intended, save your harmonies, buy lotus, wait out the 20 days. You won't be any further behind than the tailors.

[Bonsaii]

That's a problem with the mats cost of pieces, not with the base system of using harmony to skip a CD period.

Regardless I'm not really seeing it.

Sure a weapon costs 20 scrolls, but if you look at all the really good silk pieces (which I'd consider the equivalent to crafting a weapon) you'll notice they also require Blood Spirits, making tailors have to raid for pieces, and also imposing an unskippable raid lockout CD on tailors, which scribes don't have to deal with at all if they don't want to. And don't forget that tailors have to spend a substantial amount of time grinding rep at level 90 to even get/learn their recipes, when inscription's come right from the trainer and can be learned by any toon over level 80.

Sounds to me like tailoring is the one losing here, where their mats cost and demands aren't higher the sales price for their items is lower than a scribes. There is literally only one exception to that (gloves) out of all of the items both professions can craft. Add that in to the fact that scribes have substantially higher earning potential and I really can't understand why a scribe would be complaining about tailoring.

I really am just shaking my head over the fact that someone is saying scribes are hard done by when compared to tailors right now.

The weapons we craft are 476, in addition, the staff's are bound to our account. The fans are the sellable items. The shoulder enchants are easier to get, but a lower source of income than the spellthreads.

And I'm not just complaining about tailoring. Every other profession with a 1 day CD can use less spirits, Living steel is worth more on my server than a Scroll of Wisdom, yet it requires less spirits.

[Deleted]

Nobody is stupid enough to trade in spirits for a 1 day cooldown. They sell them for lotus whilst the price is high. Inscription enjoy the DMF voosy at the beginning to make themselves thousands of gold. I dont see you complaining about that.

[Windfury]

The weapons we craft are 476, in addition, the staff's are bound to our account. The fans are the sellable items. The shoulder enchants are easier to get, but a lower source of income than the spellthreads.

And I'm not just complaining about tailoring. Every other profession with a 1 day CD can use less spirits, Living steel is worth more on my server than a Scroll of Wisdom, yet it requires less spirits.

A scribe's scroll of wisdom is currently worth ~3k gold on average according to the undermine journal's price on DMF cards (average card cost minus average startlight ink cost). The leg enchants for tailors (which is the tailoring equivalent, unless you make a shoulder enchant cost a scroll) are worth 1.2k, Living steel is worth 1k. That makes the inscription daily *worth around 3 times as much* as the daily of tailors and alchemists. I have no idea how you can see a scroll as being worth less than the tailoring or alchemy cds.

Those prices are the average across all US servers taken from the Undermine Journal, if your market is so massively different to every other market that steel is three times more expensive on your server than a darkmoon card then the problem is is your market, not in the profession design.

How would you feel if the stave's scroll cost went down and the ilevel went up, but the recipe now required revered with golden lotus and included blood spirits? That would make the pieces completely equivalent. Of course you'd end up having to wait at least 3 weeks anyway to craft it because of those changes (the same time it takes to make the scrolls for the staves without using harmonies now), and it would take a lot more effort to get the component parts, but it would be fair right? The relative ease of making the staves is the reason for the higher mats cost, and scribes have the choice of whether to pay it in time or in more mats. That is in fact an issue of balance.

[Deleted]

I don believe a scroll is worth that much and there is no reliable date plus its also server dependant. The prices flow with DMF an scribes are front loaded as they slowly become less profitable.

[Windfury]

I don believe a scroll is worth that much and there is no reliable date plus its also server dependant. The prices flow with DMF an scribes are front loaded as they slowly become less profitable.

Right now that's how much a scroll is worth, on average, across US servers according to Undermine Journal data. Yes that's an average across servers, and yes it sucks if you're on one where a DMF card sells for 500g if you are, but that's not the pattern game wide, that's an issue with an individual server economy. Yes, scroll prices will eventually go down as people finish their decks, however the issue here is what they're worth now, as now is when the person wants to craft and the values they're comparing.

[Bonsaii]

A scribe's scroll of wisdom is currently worth ~3k gold on average according to the undermine journal's price on DMF cards (average card cost minus average startlight ink cost). The leg enchants for tailors (which is the tailoring equivalent, unless you make a shoulder enchant cost a scroll) are worth 1.2k, Living steel is worth 1k. That makes the inscription daily *worth around 3 times as much* as the daily of tailors and alchemists. I have no idea how you can see a scroll as being worth less than the tailoring or alchemy cds.

Those prices are the average across all US servers taken from the Undermine Journal, if your market is so massively different to every other market that steel is three times more expensive on your server than a darkmoon card then the problem is is your market, not in the profession design.

How would you feel if the stave's scroll cost went down and the ilevel went up, but the recipe now required revered with golden lotus and included blood spirits? That would make the pieces completely equivalent. Of course you'd end up having to wait at least 3 weeks anyway to craft it because of those changes (the same time it takes to make the scrolls for the staves without using harmonies now), and it would take a lot more effort to get the component parts, but it would be fair right? The relative ease of making the staves is the reason for the higher mats cost, and scribes have the choice of whether to pay it in time or in more mats. That is in fact an issue of balance.

I'm talking about people in trade, WTB scroll of wisdom CD. People on my server will buy a scribes scroll and give them mats to make a card. This is usually around 400-500g. Yes it's not the best deal. That and the upgraded ilevel is a stupid argument. There should be a 476 version that is upgradeable to 496 for blood spirits and rep. Other professions are similar in that way, they have a 476 version and a 496 version. I'm not asking for a better staff.
Also tailoring leg enchants will have a much longer use than the darkmoon cards, DMF is just a nice little burst at the start of the x-pac and after the first few months they won't be worth as much.
Hell, I'd be okay with shoulder enchants costing a scroll, then every idiot out there wouldn't be able to kill the market.


Lets compare the cost of spirits with your precious undermine info data.
If a tailor spends only Spirits to create their silk it takes them 12 spirits for a pair of gloves, and 18 for a chest piece.
For a scribe the items you can trade are darkmoon cards, which are rather unreliable with the market flucuation, and the fans. If a scribe makes a fan with all spirits it takes 25 Spirits, so what's the cost per spirit for each of these items? I'm too lazy to check undermine for it, but on my server the fans vary a lot, but the moving price seems to be around 9-10k.

[Holes]

Just because it doesn't work like the other professions doesn't make it bad. I've made more gold as inscription than any other prof. I have. I like what they did with it.

[Puffinstuff]

I have no problem with inscription being like other professions, it should be like BS. Require spirits of harmony to learn recipies to level to 600, take spirit of harmoniy to craft shoulder enchants. Hmmm on second thought let's make shoulder enchants require a second crafting profession to make shoulder enchants, as BS requires alchemy to acquire living steel to make buckles. Can't mine living steel. Inscrpition should also require ink of dreams like kyparite to buy recipies from a faction vendor once you have the required rep, Inscritiption learns to make staves from the trainer, BS learns their 476 epics and buckle and weapon chains from the kalaxxi for kyparite ore after achieving the required rep.

Yes I agree inscription should be just like blacksmithing.

[Deleted]

I have no problem with inscription being like other professions, it should be like BS. Require spirits of harmony to learn recipies to level to 600, take spirit of harmoniy to craft shoulder enchants. Hmmm on second thought let's make shoulder enchants require a second crafting profession to make shoulder enchants, as BS requires alchemy to acquire living steel to make buckles. Can't mine living steel. Inscrpition should also require ink of dreams like kyparite to buy recipies from a faction vendor once you have the required rep, Inscritiption learns to make staves from the trainer, BS learns their 476 epics and buckle and weapon chains from the kalaxxi for kyparite ore after achieving the required rep.

Yes I agree inscription should be just like blacksmithing.

You get the rep for the buckle while completing the prequests for the dailys so please stfu with that
Kyparite goes for 3-4g on my server, so the recipe is like 80g. So stfu with that too, please.
You can buy the living steel from the AH and sell the buckle for 150-250g of profit easily, multiple times a day.
You can produce epic BoE armor base only on your farming and not on time. That can be godly for your main, not so good for a prof twink not earning harmony.
So ... stfu with your Blacksmithing aint a good moneymaker, for your main its an awesome profession and you can make a lot of gold with it.
I agree though that its an awfull profession for the lonely profession alt waiting to click the daily cd once a day!

On INscription, theres nothing to complain i guess, yes its not fair to have to wait a bit longer for the stuff but its nice things and you can still get them with more farm equating the profit on time with the other professions very well.