[Poll] Mage Level 90 Talents - Thumbs Up or Down?

[scuac]

My take on these talents is that while they are an annoyance to keep up and all that has been said here, people seem to lose sight of one important plus of these talents: they are POWERFUL. I use Invocation on my Frost mage and 25% extra damage? HUGE. I know I was complaining about them before leveling to 90, and not looking forward to them. But in the past weeks it has been very rare that I am not top dps by a good margin. As said on a similar thread here, the way I see it now is like this: during Cata Arcane had the whole burn phase/conserve phase dynamic that some people found fun. Now with Invocation you have a 40s burn phase and ~5s conserve phase. I think spending a few seconds channeling is a small price to pay for absolutely destroying dps meters.

[mrgreenthump]

My take on these talents is that while they are an annoyance to keep up and all that has been said here, people seem to lose sight of one important plus of these talents: they are POWERFUL. I use Invocation on my Frost mage and 25% extra damage? HUGE. I know I was complaining about them before leveling to 90, and not looking forward to them. But in the past weeks it has been very rare that I am not top dps by a good margin. As said on a similar thread here, the way I see it now is like this: during Cata Arcane had the whole burn phase/conserve phase dynamic that some people found fun. Now with Invocation you have a 40s burn phase and ~5s conserve phase. I think spending a few seconds channeling is a small price to pay for absolutely destroying dps meters.

its only numbers man, they could half mage damage tomorrow and buff the talents to increase spell damage by 150% cool now what? but really the benefit you get is more like 1.10-1.13 from invocation depending on the fight lenght. Now blizz could just remove the talents tomorrow and buff spell damage to all mages by 10% sure top mages loose few % dps.

I dont know if people understand the difference if the talents are difficult to max and if they are simply fun gameplay. Nothing is more annoying when you are casting evocation as invoc, and you get a cobalt mine on you, what to do? You have to move, great now you lost damage, cause of rng. The talents aside from incanters are really easy to max. That doesn't mean its fun to cast evocation every 40 secs or cast or RoP 20 times on a movement fight.

[Gamdwelf]

its only numbers man, they could half mage damage tomorrow and buff the talents to increase spell damage by 150% cool now what? but really the benefit you get is more like 1.10-1.13 from invocation depending on the fight lenght. Now blizz could just remove the talents tomorrow and buff spell damage to all mages by 10% sure top mages loose few % dps.

I dont know if people understand the difference if the talents are difficult to max and if they are simply fun gameplay. Nothing is more annoying when you are casting evocation as invoc, and you get a cobalt mine on you, what to do? You have to move, great now you lost damage, cause of rng. The talents aside from incanters are really easy to max. That doesn't mean its fun to cast evocation every 40 secs or cast or RoP 20 times on a movement fight.

the mine takes a while before it is armed so you can finish evocate then blink out.

[zomgDPS]

the mine takes a while before it is armed so you can finish evocate then blink out.

The mine takes 3 seconds to arm. Evocation takes 6 seconds pre haste of channel time.
If you wait for the mine to arm before blinking out, you will eat the damage.
Your only option is to break the evoc and lose the damage, which is exactly what mrgreenthump said.

Please stop trying to bullsh!te your way out of this one Gamdwelf.

[Gamdwelf]

The mine takes 3 seconds to arm. Evocation takes 6 seconds pre haste of channel time.
If you wait for the mine to arm before blinking out, you will eat the damage.
Your only option is to break the evoc and lose the damage, which is exactly what mrgreenthump said.

Please stop trying to bullsh!te your way out of this one Gamdwelf.

Ok if you have any amount of haste evocate is lke 5 or less, and unless it was put on you literrly right when you started the evocation you will haven enough time to finish then blink out. Like its not hard.

[Deleted]

I don't mind those talents, they're interesting, and add some complexity in your rotation (wich is always a good thing). Though, I don't like them as level 90 talents, they don't feel epic enough. When your character dings 90, you should feel some amount of... power, of epicness, because you've just reached the last level of the game; to be honest, if the animatons for each spells were reworked, I would love those talents; but they're not "bling" enough to satisfy me (except rune of power, it's almost perfect).

[zomgDPS]

Ok if you have any amount of haste evocate is lke 5 or less

umm... this is the formula for haste:

New Casting Time = Base Casting Time / (1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

For a 3 second Evocate:

3 = 6 / (1 + (%sH/100))

Solving for %sH

%sH = 1 * 100

= 100%

You will need more than 100% spell haste to bring your evocation to a point where it will beat the 3 second arm time of a mine. Thats obviously very doable, right?

/facepalm

Like its not hard.

Riiiiight, predicting RNG. Its not hard guys! Come on its sooooo easy. Just predict the RNG and you are fine!! xD


I can keep calling you out on your Bullshite all day Mr. Gam. And every time I will, you will look even more silly than you do now. You really should just stop as I advised you earlier.

[Gamdwelf]

Your illiteracy astounds me,

I said, unless it is put on you right when you start evocate.

[zomgDPS]

Your illiteracy astounds me,

I said, unless it is put on you right when you start evocate.

Riiiight, my illiteracy. Lol!

The "just when you start evocate" would only be true if you have a 3 second evocate. Which I just proved is not the case unless you have 100% spell haste. Which you cannot get with any gear that currently exists.

I didn't ignore your comment. I disproved it. But hey. Calling people illiterate is easier than actually coming up with an real argument, right?

Lol. Keep going dude. Here, have this shovel just so you don't keep having to dig with your hands.

[Gamdwelf]

Ok lets say you have a 5 sec evocate, cobalt mine gets put on you at 3.5 sec into your evocate.

cobalt mine goes off after 3 sec. and you have 1.5 sec still evocateing, you now have 1.5 sec to blink away, see how hard that is no its not hard you are just bad.

If evocate is too hard for you to use, its easy enough to change talents you know, there are 2 others you can use.

[zomgDPS]

Ok lets say you have a 5 sec evocate, cobalt mine gets put on you at 3.5 sec into your evocate.

By the very 'effing definition of what you just said, that is not "just when you start evocate" is it?? That is 1.5 seconds AFTER you start evocate.

Who is the illiterate one now?

/facepalm

Dude... just stahp. For your own good.

[Deleted]

Posted this on the EU forums on one of the many threads about it:
Invocation at current haste levels makes an already clunky, out-dated mechanic even more tedious, so much so at times it can be extremely frustrating. Personally, I've never found evocating to be a particularly engaging or interesting ability, something you used when absolutely necessary.

However, given the much more frequent usage of evocation with this talent, it serves to exemplify how utterly terrible the mechanic of evocating actually is.
It's hard to convey, but it feels like it "disrupts" the flow of the rotation, almost as if there is a complete loss in momentum during the time spent evocating, a point where everything comes grind to a halt, leaving you literally doing nothing expect spending a soporific five or more seconds (literally feels like an eternity) of gawking at a cast bar waiting for it to complete and only upon completion there is continuity in your rotation, only to be then jarringly halted once again 40 seconds later. It should go without saying that these periods of inactivity are not fun.

[Bryanator1989]

Hate all 3. Mage has been my main for 3 years and I'm losing interest to continue playing.

[zomgDPS]

Invocation at current haste levels makes an already clunky, out-dated mechanic even more tedious

As a side point:
This is a trend that I have noticed that has just started gaining steam.

Apologists of these talents (e.g. Lhivera) as well as other people who say things like "Arcane is fine", seem to be saying (mind you, with absolutely no mathematical basis) that "Everything will be fine at better gear levels"

This concept, that somehow "gear will fix it" is complete bullshite in my mind.

Even if it were true (which, in the case of both these talents as well as Arcane, its not) the concept on its own is nonsensical.

It is preposterous to have a design that only "works" when every raid is on farm and only when you have iLvl over 9000 gear. If you cannot enjoy and/or have a spec work on progression content, wtf is the point in the first place. When things are on farm and/or when you outgear the raid, you can raid with a 0/0/0 spec and still be fine.


I want to nip this trend in the bud. The people who keep saying "It will get better with better gear" need to be called out on their bullshite and stopped in their tracks

(n.b. I'm not saying you are saying this Aziure, just using your point as a springboard for mine)

[JohnnyQuest]

But no matter to me. I jumped ship a loong time ago.

How's that working out for you?

This forum is much more pleasant when you're not in it purposefully misconstruing peoples' posts and shoving overused memes into everyone's face.

User was infracted for this post.

[Jakmax]

They never seemed fun to me. Woo freaking hoo I get a glorified arcane brilliance to reapply every 40secs/1min. It's not hard to do, doesn't take skill, it's just annoying. They didn't even have the decency to give them cool animations. 2 of 3 of our new level 90 talents used to be available before level 40, (mana shield, evocation).

Not one a single redeeming quality in these talents. People say, ohh but look at that dmg buff. That damage buff doesn't put us over anyone, it just gets us up to where everyone else is at on dps.

Poor mechanics, poor animations, poor gameplay, poor choices, poor talents.