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  1. #1

    Brewmaster going squish on Will of the Emperor

    We're having a problem with our monk tank on Will of the Emperor 10N. He dies first almost every attempt, normally at the end of a gas phase after cooldowns have run out. Here are the logs we recorded tonight:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cg0xcd12f247k8e6/

    We're currently two healing the fight, our dps isn't high enough to be able to 3 heal it yet (though we do have a couple of 3 heal attempts in that log).

    Any kind of advice that I can pass on to him would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want him to have to play a different character just so we can get past this fight.

  2. #2
    We switched out our monk for a paladin tank in our guild. For us they felt noticeably more squishy then the other tanks we had accessible, a warrior, dk and paladin tank. we are 1/6H with a feng kill incoming early this week.

    Of course there this is all a little subjective and I am sure others will have differing opinions but that is how it was for us.

  3. #3
    I just did Will on 25 man earlier tonight... The big key for this is to save your active mitigation for when he's actually hitting you. I had no trouble getting a full 3 stacks of Power Guard and 15 stacks for Elusive Brew (which lasts you till the next dance phase)... He should be doing that. As well, assuming it's Mr Eggroll, as that's the monk taking the most damage from melee, his mastery is low. I went in tonight with 4% more mastery than I did the previous go at Will and my damage intake was actually noticeably smoother.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I just did Will on 25 man earlier tonight... The big key for this is to save your active mitigation for when he's actually hitting you. I had no trouble getting a full 3 stacks of Power Guard and 15 stacks for Elusive Brew (which lasts you till the next dance phase)... He should be doing that. As well, assuming it's Mr Eggroll, as that's the monk taking the most damage from melee, his mastery is low. I went in tonight with 4% more mastery than I did the previous go at Will and my damage intake was actually noticeably smoother.
    How much mastery are you running then, percentage-wise? What stats did you give up for it? Also how much haste do you run please?

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    The only big issue I see is the fact that he's not using Keg Smash on cooldown, which could lead to everything else, because that's a lot of missing Chi.

    Overall, he's taking less damage than the DK tank, so he probably just needs to save something for the end of that phase so he doesn't die.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by arisoh View Post
    How much mastery are you running then, percentage-wise? What stats did you give up for it? Also how much haste do you run please?

    Thanks.
    Currently with an average equipped ilvl of 378 I have, unbuffed, 5.59% mastery (which got bumped up in raid), and 9.10% haste. I was actually a good deal over the expertise softcap, and I switched out some of my reforges over to mastery, bumping it up a tad.

  7. #7
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    From what I understand, monk tanks in leather suffer more from the armor reduction from the swings more than plate tanks and bears - our monk tank has to work to keep up his stacks of something (elusive brew? Keg Smash? IDK much about monks) during the opportunistic strike phase while dodging, so he goes into the normal boss swing phases at 15 stacks, which smooths out the damage according to him.

  8. #8
    We are running with 3 healers as well as our tanks do take alot of damage we have a brewmaster and pally, but the kill went quick we spent less than 1 hour on them.
    And our monk took less damage than the pally. But it really comes down to correctly manage your cd's.

  9. #9
    The key is to dance correct while still hitting the boss as much as possible to get as much elusive brew stacks as possible and at best to stack shuffle up so you can spend more chi on other stuff. Having Guard + 15sed elusive brew (30% dodge, 35% with t14 2p) lined up for the phase when he is actually hitting you helps alot.
    The paladin that was assigned to heal me mentioned how he didnt had to heal me at all for some periods.
    The boss hits really hard to make up for the big time he spends not hitting you so a monk tank played correctly should be a big win as you can avoid alot of swings.
    Smart use of self heal + CD should be mentioned also.

    Also its worth mentioning that WoL does not show the correct damage taken for monks.
    On WoL i took slightly more damage then our warrior, while skada showed me taking 7million less damage.
    And from what healers told us skada should be accurate. I never died in any try before it was called a wipe while our warrior got quite some battle rezz.

    I looked at the log of one of your longest fights and the problem seems clear. Your monk needs to learn the dance! He got hit 12 times by the armor reducing debuff.
    In our kill i got hit 4times. 12 times is just too much damage esp since we already have so low armor to begin with,
    Get him to chain lfr and learn the dance!

    edit:
    Our log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...?s=9061&e=9747
    Last edited by Asmalya; 2012-10-23 at 05:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Thanks for the input guys, I'm hoping with another week's worth of gear that we'll be able to get it this week.

  11. #11
    you are right. WOL does not show accurate damage taken by monks as stagger is counted as friendly fire.

  12. #12
    I can back up what Asmalya said. Your tanks (both) need to learn how to dance. During your longest try (11 min) both of your tank had only 3 oportunistic strikes while on my kill me and our warrior tank had 12 & 13 strikes (respectively).

    One question that came into my mind - what are you doing with strength adds? They can really screw everything up if they are not offtanked.
    Last edited by Vasilisa; 2012-10-23 at 09:14 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I can back up what Asmalya said. Your tanks (both) need to learn how to dance. During your longest try (11 min) both of your tank had only 3 oportunistic strikes while on my kill me and our warrior tank had 12 & 13 strikes (respectively).

    One question that came into my mind - what are you doing with strength adds? They can really screw everything up if they are not offtanked.
    We used a Hunter Pet and plate classes

    Also noticable for the OP your monk got hit by the add stun once. Shouldnt happen.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome
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    Last week we did Will with a Brewmaster who just dinged a day before and didnt even had full hc dungeon items... Our healers were 2 shamans and in the end me - paladin tank took even more damage then our Monk tank. Strength adds were tanked by either me or him, it just makes dancing a bit more complicated, but it is manageable..
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    "you need to understand that my computer and i have a relationship that was here before i met you, and will be here long after we break up. if i could have sex with the CD-rom drive, you would be irrelevant. just so we're clear on this"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold of Skullcrusher View Post
    Strength adds were tanked by either me or him, it just makes dancing a bit more complicated, but it is manageable..
    That's just making the fight unneccesarly hard. It's rather undertuned on 10m so there is quite some room for error, but still, I don't see why you would ever do this considering the strength adds hit for approximately nothing on a random DPS tank or pet tank.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callypso View Post
    That's just making the fight unneccesarly hard. It's rather undertuned on 10m so there is quite some room for error, but still, I don't see why you would ever do this considering the strength adds hit for approximately nothing on a random DPS tank or pet tank.
    We did it so all the dps could be stacked up in the middle, dont move at all and because we didnt have any problem with dancing while avoiding the stuns from add..

    Edit: And to be honest - also because we didnt realised a pet can tank it xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    "you need to understand that my computer and i have a relationship that was here before i met you, and will be here long after we break up. if i could have sex with the CD-rom drive, you would be irrelevant. just so we're clear on this"

  17. #17
    From first glances, it appears several things are wrong:

    - His stat priorities and gem choices are out of whack.
    - Stacking Stamina trinkets is not a good idea.
    - His Elusive Brew, Shuffle and Guard uptimes are abyssmal.
    - He isn't very good at the dance which boggles my mind completely as a monk, especially with roll. He needs to find the sweet spot at around 5 yards out from the boss.
    - Talent choices are incorrect for this fight. He should be using Momentum and Chi Wave.

    Most of these things will come with experience or asking questions. Unfortunately, there is so much misinformation out there about the monk class, a lot of people get confused pretty quickly. There are still huge debates over Mastery > all, or Haste > all. I can tell you from firsthand experience, and from logs (private since we are still in the progression race on Will) that stat priorities of: Agi > Hit = Expertise (7.5% soft caps) > Haste > Crit > Mastery surpasses all others I have tried. And yes I have tried them all.

    He should be alternating Elusive Brew and Guard during the times he is being hit, and stacking Shuffle when he is dancing. Because of his trinket choices, he has 3 cooldowns available to him. Fortifying Brew, Dampen Harm, Trinket. He can call for an external cooldown on the next series provided he can manage the dance successfully.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I can back up what Asmalya said. Your tanks (both) need to learn how to dance. During your longest try (11 min) both of your tank had only 3 oportunistic strikes while on my kill me and our warrior tank had 12 & 13 strikes (respectively).

    One question that came into my mind - what are you doing with strength adds? They can really screw everything up if they are not offtanked.
    Here's how we were doing it, maybe it's wrong, but it's the strat we were trying.

    2 healing:
    Holy Paladin
    Mistweaver

    2 tanks:
    Brewmaster
    Blood DK

    6 dps:
    Balance Druid
    Shadow Priest
    Affliction Warlock
    Surv Hunter
    Fire Mage
    Warrior

    Throughout the fight, our warrior (a new trial to the group, also extremely undergeared) was supposed to be picking up the Strengths and keeping them on the outside of the room. Our spriest, lock, boomkin, and hunter were killing the rages first, then swapping to the strength when the rages were down. Fire mage was staying on the bosses except when a courage spawned, then all of the ranged would switch to the courage, warrior would just continue with the strength. Mage also switches and helps clean up any adds that might be alive when the gas phase starts.

    At the beginning of every gas phase, holy paladin (also a new trial to our group) is supposed to hand of sacrifice the monk. Once that wears off, the monk is supposed to start rotating through his tanking cooldowns. The paladin also told me he is using Hand of Purity on the monk to reduce his incoming stagger damage.

    Once the gas phase is over, if our brewmaster survives, we start the whole process again.

  19. #19
    Have him keep Shuffle up via Blackout kick, it makes a huge difference.

    You don't have to wait until Elusive Brew is a 15 stacks before you use it. If you see spike inc or you're low on HP, use it! Even if it's only 5 stacks, 5s of it is better than your death, and it's a super low CD (9s), so by the time you build more stacks, it'll be up.

    Use Purifying Brew whenever you get heavy stagger, it will be often at times, but heavy stagger kills you just as fast as boss hits. If you have 2 chi and you have a choice between using 1 chi for purifying brew on a heavy stagger or 2 on Guard, go for the purifying brew, unless you know there is huge spike damage inc.

    Always use 3 Tiger Palmed Guard.

    Don't forget you can spam Expel Harm when you get below 35% HP. It can be pretty useful at times, you can spam it about 3 times before you run out of energy. Each Expel Harm heals you for 7+% depending on your Vengeance.

    Use appropriate glyphs for the situation. If boss is magic heavy, get Diffuse Magic. If he has high physical burst, get Dampen Harm, for anything else, use Healing Elixers.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Currently with an average equipped ilvl of 378 I have, unbuffed, 5.59% mastery (which got bumped up in raid), and 9.10% haste. I was actually a good deal over the expertise softcap, and I switched out some of my reforges over to mastery, bumping it up a tad.
    Never tested this but does the mastery buff you get from our Monk daily persist through death? Seems like shortly before you were going to pull you could port out and pick up the +1000 mastery buff but not sure if I"d bother on progression if it is only good for one pull.

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