Strong opening?

[Deleted]

May as well give tanks as much threat as possible at start so I don't have to tricks them again later in the fight as the mage/ret will over take them eventually with only one MD.

Anyways: We're off topic.

[shadowboy]

If you garrote into SnD you run the risk of capping for 0.5 - 1 seconds because of no energy cost during stealth which is why i prefer to go 2 mutis then rupture so i dont cap energy.

Having SnD up early is more important than capping. Besides, with garrote>SnD you should not cap, even with shadow focus. You'd need 150% haste from haste rating to cap at that point. You'll have enough time to SnD then mut before your first garrote tick so from SnD to first garrote tick you will never cap energy. Being capped during the GCD between garrote and SnD means nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[adio33]

Dont forget to use potions.

[Deleted]

Having SnD up early is more important than capping. Besides, with garrote>SnD you should not cap, even with shadow focus. You'd need 150% haste from haste rating to cap at that point. You'll have enough time to SnD then mut before your first garrote tick so from SnD to first garrote tick you will never cap energy. Being capped during the GCD between garrote and SnD means nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Any numbers to back it up?

[Deleted]

Because you'd lose uptime on the damage increase. So much better to pop it after garrote/S&D when the person is ramped up as well and in some cases bloodlust is up.

The damage increase for your target only starts when you start to deal damage.
What you might lose however is when you are tricked, and the other rogue is doing damage faster than you, so you have the buff while still running in.

[Coldkil]

i found the best opener to be muti > snd > dispatch if procced or mutilate > rupture.

[denisgsv]

i found the best opener to be muti > snd > dispatch if procced or mutilate > rupture.

But the time you spend without bleed on the target youre loosing bonus dmg and energy reg , i mean muti snd skill rup . There are 5 6 seconds you lose 20% of dmg and maybe some energy :|

I tryed it didnt rllly see how muti opener is better ...

[Coldkil]

Muti is better due to more damage for free energy plus a dispatch proc.

As assassination bleeding don't provide any bonus damage, apart venomous wounds. If you open with garrote:
- you don't deal istant damage
- first tick is after 3 seconds.

This means that for the first 3 gcd it's like you don't have it up at all. By the time you have used these 3 gcd you will use rupture. So you're passing over free istant damage + snd for an additional 75% chance of getting back 10 energy.

That's why mutilate as opener is better.

[Deleted]

i found the best opener to be muti > snd > dispatch if procced or mutilate > rupture.

ColdKill, do you value using your Dispatch proc asap (so you can get another one quickly after I assume) over being energy capped for a short while, because if you open Muti > SnD > Dispatch you will be capped for a very short amount of time.

[jtstormrage]

I go:

Mut - Mut - Rupture - Dispatch if Blindside proc otherwise Mut - SND - pool for 2 secs if needed - Vendetta - SB - Spam Mut/Envenom and store 5 cps to later refresh Rupture - Use Vanish twice (with Prep) when you start having to wait to pool energy.

That works fine for me.

[Coldkil]

ColdKill, do you value using your Dispatch proc asap (so you can get another one quickly after I assume) over being energy capped for a short while, because if you open Muti > SnD > Dispatch you will be capped for a very short amount of time.

Being energy capped is bad, but using a mutilate just in case and waste a proc imho is a bigger dps loss. Need to try it just in case.

[hoodrogue]

Prepot > ambush > mut > rupture > blindside OR mut > snd > Vendetta SBlades > vanish ambush > mut > envenom > prep vanish ambush > normalrotationfortherestofthefight

[Deleted]

Prepot > ambush > mut > rupture > blindside OR mut > snd > Vendetta SBlades > vanish ambush > mut > envenom > prep vanish ambush > normalrotationfortherestofthefight

Ambush?! I'm pretty sure you save more energy by using Muti in stealth AND you have a chance to proc Dispatch with Mutilate.

[Jiigeri]

Ambush?! I'm pretty sure you save more energy by using Muti in stealth AND you have a chance to proc Dispatch with Mutilate.

There was discussion about this on elitistjerks a while ago, it seems that the difference should be _really_ small. Around 30dps difference if I remember right from their sims (obviously one can always question the accuracy of simcraft, but that's by far the easiest way to get an basic idea how two ways differ from each other). I think it was ambush that was higher, but I still tend to go with mutilate just for dispatch and poison procs as you mentioned before.

[hihu]

Did you pre-pot? it's gonna make a world of difference on the first minute if he did and you didn't