Well, would you look at that, we've now reached the
fifth "consolidated" thread. Below is a timeline with links to more information about Space Combat. I think there is another interview with Daniel that involves Space Combat but I can't find it.
- Comic-Con Mission (July 14th)
- Star Wars panel at Comic-Con (July 23rd)
- Details From Sean (July 23rd)
- SWTOR-Station PC Action Leak (August 8th) Remember to click on the little US/UK flag in upper right for English
- First Consolidated Thread (August 8th) 4,756 Posts 103,375 Views
- PC Gamer Scans (August 9th)
- Second Consolidated Thread (August 10th) 4,780 Posts 80,395 Views
- Space Combat Trailer (August 17th)
- Third Consolidated Thread (August 17th) 4,382 Posts 54,252 Views
- Darth Hater-James Ohlen Interview (August 18th)
- Gamespot-Daniel Erickson Interview (August 18th)
- Allvatar-Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk Interview (August 20th)
- MMORPGITALIA-Daniel Erickson Interview (August 21st)
- Fourth Consolidated Thread (August 25th) 3,349 Posts 41,012 Views
- GameTrailers-Daniel Erickson Interview (August 31st) GC had already ended, so not sure which day it was really recorded.
- Space Combat Page (September 3rd)
- Fifth Consolidated Thread (September 3rd)
There are over 17,000 posts since August 8th plus more than 275,000 views in the five "consolidated" threads. So far that is. That is not counting all the posts in threads closed by mods, directing them to post in a consolidated thread nor the comments on the news or trailer page or topic in the N&A board.
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Here are my thoughts about BioWare's "Space Combat."
First, BioWare over-hyped "space combat."
This is proven by comparing how BioWare handled the space combat reveal to how they handled other reveals, like the first playable non-human race of the primary game.
Space Combat Reveal
- Baited us with the Comic-Con Mission.
- Revealed it anyway during the Star Wars panel at Comic-Con even though the "mission" was not completed. Showing that they planned to reveal it anyway.
- Provided more details from Sean himself in a N&A thread about it. Which also pointed us at an upcoming issue of PC Gamer.
- Finally created consolidated threads, over sixteen thousand posts since August 8th, to deal with the confusion over details coming out in PC Action magazine which BioWare somehow didn't know about or expect.
- Posted a video focusing on Space Combat on a Tuesday, well outside their normal Friday update schedule.
- Continue to "spin" about Space Combat in various interviews. Even when they show some previous claims may be less than accurate.
First Playable Non Human Race Reveal
- EA UK Press Event
BioWare chose to shine a big bright spotlight on their "space combat" reveal, not the community.
Second, they only made a minigame.
BioWare put a lot of effort into drawing the community's attention to their "space combat" reveal. After the "there is space combat" line at Comic-Con, Sean created a
specific thread in News & Announcements to expand on the statement.
"Space combat is an alternative gameplay experience to the primary game of storytelling, questing, and ground-based combat." He never said "tunnel-shooter" or
minigame.
Given our experience with previous BioWare products, it would likely not be realistic to expect The Old Republic's "alternative gameplay experience" to get equal treatment to the "primary game." However, alternative doesn't mean
trivial either. The PC Action and PC Gamer revelations describe single-player gameplay that only lasts a few minutes at a time in an
MMORPG, Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, environment... a minigame.
Yes PC Gamer was told we'll get co-op and PvP "in the future," but that won't do The Old Republic's critical launch period any good. Now
Greg has said,
"PvP and space is not something we're currently planning." Those expecting this 2D experience to change into a more 3D experience are also ignoring
Gordon's comments,
"a whole lot of people who play RPG type games don't really do the 3D thing that well -- it isn't their strongest suit."
You could say that those expecting
Star Fox 64's "All Range Mode" are actually deluding themselves like those who expected better than a Shoot 'Em Up, from a highly regarded studio with a development budget of more than a hundred million dollars and five plus years to create a Star Wars MMORPG, did. Should we also wonder about a minigame
NOT being optional as implied in a
recent interview?
Third, The Old Republic's "space combat" is obsolete.
The type of gameplay PC Action and PC Gamer describe is known as a
Shoot 'Em Up. The Shoot 'Em Up mostly migrated to the consoles back in the nineties. Its inherent gameplay limitations "fit" better with the user-interface and hardware limitations of consoles. On the PC it is a "niche" game made by indie developers and no where near as popular as the dominant genres of the PC game market, RPG, FPS, and RTS.
Its not too difficult a concept to grasp that if you are going to put an "
alternative gameplay experience" or "
optional gameplay event," in your game. You should want it to appeal to as many people as possible, especially if its not "optional." You don't see major developers making Shoot 'Em Ups for the PC, or even bothering to port them over from the consoles, anymore because they know there isn't enough of a market to make it worthwhile.
In addition the only real advantage that Shoot 'Em Ups have over
Space Combat Simulators is how easy they are to make.
XWA,
WC3,
BF2, etc... show what can be achieved. Using a Shoot 'Em Up to depict "space combat" is no longer current, its old-fashioned, its
obsolete on the PC. Also if Space Combat is not "completely optional" then its lack of popularity, on the PC platform,
hurts instead of helps the rest of the game.
In conclusion...
BioWare over-hyped a single-player mingame that uses obsolete gameplay and so only have themselves to blame for the confusion, frustration, and or disappointment that this reveal has left in its wake.
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This has been going on long enough that I have begun to feel a bit sorry for those attempting to defend this design decision by BioWare. Its an almost indefensible position. The reality is that BioWare
could have done better than this but chose not to. Of course its when you get into
should have done better that the water gets murkier. Due to this I have actually tried to play devil's advocate to my own position.
I enjoy playing devil's advocate sometimes but I have not been able to do it here successfully. What I have managed to come up with, on the other hand, is a statement that BioWare might make to help calm their community of "potential" customers. A way to resolve the confusion, disappointment, and contradictions. Naturally it won't make everyone happy but it should at least help calm the waters so to speak.
Perhaps as a response to an interview question?
Originally Posted by
BioWare Type Employee Person Doing Interview
Space Combat?
Well there has been a lot of confusion over Space Combat in The Old Republic lately that should be cleared up. Yes it is a single-player part of the game, just as yes, players will get to take part in some, emphasis on some, Space Combat as part of their class story. Also, yes, it is what many would call a tunnel-shooter.
Of course putting something like the X-Wing series from Lucas Arts in The Old Republic would have been amazing. However, we didn't think we could do it proper justice with the time and resources we had available. We also didn't want space combat to just be CGI cut scenes, no matter how cinematic that would have let us make it.
We felt a tunnel shooter was the best middle point, between the two, where we could have the player be an active participant and still keep to our development schedule. While we are not currently planning to add Co-op and PvP by launch, that doesn't mean we never will. If there is enough community interest, then of course we'll look into adding it.
The same is true with the tunnel shooter itself. That doesn't mean it can't have more 3D elements added to it. Just that this is what will be included in The Old Republic at launch. If players choose to focus more on Space Combat, there will be plenty of optional and more challenging missions, with rewards, available.
Naturally the goal here is too deliver the most entertaining alternative gameplay experience we can by launch. If community interest is large enough then of course we can look at doing a lot more with Space Combat through patches and expansions. Thank you.
While this would hardly make everyone "happy." I think this would be the most constructive way for BioWare to reply. Also I'm not saying the evidence we have currently supports this statement. Just that it might be the smartest thing for them to say.
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For many of us who do not support this design decision by BioWare it has to do with what happens when we enter that "hotspot." Not that we want BioWare to completely copy
Jump to Lightspeed,
EVE Online, etc... What we want is a better in-game experience, within that "hotspot," than what a
Shoot 'Em Up can provide.
I'm not saying that games like
Rebel Assault,
Rogue Squadron,
Star Fox, etc... were not great games in their day. Just that my tastes and abilities grew beyond them as I aged and the industry itself matured.
Asteroids was a great game too but I have no desire for The Old Republic's Space Combat to be like it.
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By the by,
here is a direct link to this post and
here is a link to who is posting in this thread. That should make it easier for some to keep tabs on how many times I, and others, post here. Well then, lets get too it, shall we?