"The Space Project"

[RoninaThorstone]

Leave the dead space horse alone.

[Kelimbror]

Leave the dead space horse alone.

*pulls out stick*
*beat*
*beat*
*beat*
*evil monkey points finger at HK-51 and tells him to get back in his hole*

[RoninaThorstone]

*pulls out stick*
*beat*
*beat*
*beat*
*evil monkey points finger at HK-51 and tells him to get back in his hole*

Retreats back to his asteroid cave.

---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 06:11 PM ----------



Since the OP is... somehow... not yet tired of talking about this. This is what most people believe that SWTOR should base its space combat off of. There's other videos but here is one.

[Arteous]

the only thing i wanted for space combat would be something like this


shame that bioware couldn't get it right either.

I have a theory. I think the Star Wars franchise is cursed. I'm serious. Every company who's tried to run a star wars mmo (2 at the time of this writing) has done nothing but blunder and fail to make it sucessful.

Sony had it right at first. It just needed a few fixes to the talent skills that were not working properly. They also needed to throughtly test out combinations of skills and failed to properly test out the interaction of high end materials in crafting but to this date i still think even with dated graphics that game as it was pre-cu is still better than any mmo to date.

With SWG they hit the nail on the head when it came to bridging player type dependancies to each other. Casual players were happy to sit in cantinas (roleplayers too) and live a virtual cantina lifestyle buffing and earning rewards for doing so from the pvp/pve'rs. The crafters supplied the best goods for both pve and pvp and depended on the pver's for materials to craft those uber items. Other crafters (architects) while din't require uber materials provided something easle curcial to keeping alot of casuals/rper's engaged into the game. Housing and furniture. One would at first think that demand would die off after a while but it never did. Everyone needed everyone and everyone was pretty happy with this dependancy relationship. Jump to lightspeed was a great addition and exactly what i and alot of players wanted and we hoped to see in swtor.

but the curse kicked in with Combat updated and NGE .. sony wanted the wow player base and din't think about alienating their current playerbase wich was very profitable on it's own.

As for bioware? they were cursed the minute they started to get micro managed by EA and rehashing their game and making sweeping changes before it even entered betea mid concept. it seems at one time they were shooting something similar to what swg used to be like with the cantinas but it got changed to be a wow clone (wich can't be too terrible) but the joke of space combat in the game really din't give me any replay value, or even make me want to keep doing it after i finished off the last mission. yea you got some space dalies but i honeslty din't care about them because i found the railshooter game so bad.

I think what was a true warning was one time at one of the events prior to launch the lead developer when asked why go with a railshooter and not free roaming like jump to lightspeed his reply was something to the effect of: "We will tell you what you will like.", up to that point i was thinking it's going to be good but when he said that, (it was on a stream i'm sure it can be found again) my heart sank. it told me that they were not listening to the community at all. they had already designed it and were pushing it out weather anyone liked it or not. Once a company belives they can do no wrong and they are all ways in the right and stops listening to their player base is when they start destroying that community and then finally themselves.

honestly if swtor wants to get back on the ball and fix things they could annouce anything they want just about at this point but i honestly don't think the community of mmo players as a whole will care. after the letdowns from bioware (mass effect 3, dragon age origins and swtor) all piled up just makes me at least feel that bioware as a company has stopped listening to it's fans / players and started to belive that they can do no wrong and everyone will love them. I think that's been proven wrong after all the lay offs ect in bioware austin.

If they truly want to save swtor. get back alot of those fired people. and relaunch the game after it's reworked. Bring back what swg lost in the cu/nge .. bring in a true free roaming similar to jump to lightspeed space combat with deep space / pvp space zone and quality missions in space for each different faction/class. Smuggling missions in space for smugglers. Bounty hunter missions for bounty hunters. interdiction/search/seisisure missions for agents/sith/troopers/jedi ect ect ect. Make cantinas a type of buff station where a new class entertainers can buff the pve/pvp ers and give pver's goals to achieve in pve to get items that those cantina players will want to buy from the pver's .. dependancy is key to keeping thse working together.

[SirRobin]

If you backtrack you can see the car chase minigame in Mass Effect's Shadow Broker DLC as a proof of concept for the single-player rail-shooter mini-game they made for TOR.

[RoninaThorstone]

As for bioware? they were cursed the minute they started to get micro managed by Activision and rehashing their game and making sweeping changes before it even entered betea mid concept.

wut?

+10char

[Arteous]

wut?

+10char

i meant EA not activision. Ea has a history of breaking companies via micro managing to destroy them then scoop up their IP rights for in house use.

[RoninaThorstone]

If you backtrack you can see the car chase minigame in Mass Effect's Shadow Broker DLC as a proof of concept for the single-player rail-shooter mini-game they made for TOR.

Basing the space combat in a starwars game off a 5 minute part of a DLC isn't as bad as basing an expansion off an easter egg from a previous game... I guess.

But yeah.

How did they look at that and think "That's good enough to stand next to tie/Xwing and battlefront." And you know what? I don't think that they did. I think they thought. "Well, it might be star wars but its not like people cared about those games. People who care about our game only like kotor."

[Arteous]

Basing the space combat in a starwars game off a 5 minute part of a DLC isn't as bad as basing an expansion off an easter egg from a previous game... I guess.

But yeah.

How did they look at that and think "That's good enough to stand next to tie/Xwing and battlefront." And you know what? I don't think that they did. I think they thought. "Well, it might be star wars but its not like people cared about those games. People who care about our game only like kotor."

I think that plus the thinking of them selves knowing what we like more than WE do is what sinked the space and finally the game as a whole.

[Edge-]

i meant EA not activision. Ea has a history of breaking companies via micro managing to destroy them then scoop up their IP rights for in house use.

Which is funny, because some years ago one of the head execs gave a big keynote speech at an industry event about how those kinds of practices had gotten them in trouble with companies like Westwood in the past. The whole crux of it was, "We've learned from our past mistakes and will never do it again. Development studios need creative freedom without publishers breathing down their neck."

We can only assume from recent events with EA (Dead Space's radical change in direction, resurrecting Medal of Honor to have it flop, Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, SWTOR issues, and more) that they've gotten back to getting into the nitty gritty with their studios again, which is a damn shame : /

[Lord Kristivas]

Since the OP is... somehow... not yet tired of talking about this. This is what most people believe that SWTOR should base its space combat off of. There's other videos but here is one.

Trust me, I'm tired of talking about it after all this. Nice vids, though.

[Kelimbror]

Trust me, I'm tired of talking about it after all this. Nice vids, though.

And this is why these conversations go nowhere. I mean, people ask for suggestions, wishlists, etc and then most of them are ignored and not even commented on by the forum population.

I listed 5 things to improve space, I have listed many things before, and in a thread with the intended purposes to discuss such things...not a single person even mentioned it or attempted to create their own ideas. Pretty much the same thing that happened to your OP. It's merely because all of us have expressed these ideas multiple times, that there really isn't a point anymore. It's kinda like hypothesizing on how we can improve something that doesn't exist.After a while it seems to have no point.

Like everything, we'll just have to wait and see. The clips from videos and F2P regarding space lead me to personally believe they are just going to plow forward with the same system that has already been found wanting.

[Fela]

Don't EvE and STO use point/click to move mechanics?

Sorry if this was answered before, didn't read the whole thread.

The answer is 'no' for STO and 'not really' for EVE.

STO uses throttle control and left/right/up/down arrow keys. In addition, movement is limited by upper and lower borders and up/down angles are also limited making it not really 3d but more like multiple layers of 2d movement.


While in EVE you can technically move by clicking in space, most commonly movement is performed by interacting with other objects in space. I.e. you would usually pick another ship/beacon/container/planet and approach/orbit(at chosen distance)/keep at range (at chosen distance). Manual movement (aka click to move) is sometimes used in PvP, but it's not very intuitive.

[Tiev]

It might be just me but I kind of enjoy the on rails space combat.

Maybe if it had more ways to avoid being hit and some sort of charging-mah-lasers attack. But yeah, do you guys really think that's an important feature? I could have lived without space combat at all honestly.

[Kelimbror]

It might be just me but I kind of enjoy the on rails space combat.

Maybe if it had more ways to avoid being hit and some sort of charging-mah-lasers attack. But yeah, do you guys really think that's an important feature? I could have lived without space combat at all honestly.

It's not just you. I don't have a huge problem with it either, other than it's not very rewarding. The suggestions I made in this thread would make it perfect for me. I didn't need a crazy 3d space experience either, but a lot of people do want that. I'm more of an MMO player than a SW fan though, so I just want something more engaging and rewarding regardless of what system it is.

[RoninaThorstone]

But yeah, do you guys really think that's an important feature? I could have lived without space combat at all honestly.

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my interest in space. I wouldn't have played the beta. I wouldn't have preordered. I wouldn't have leveled any characters.

I knew space was just rails at launch, obviously, but they had hinted at their "big plans" even before the guild summit, and then the "secret space project" has kept me around and interested (until august.)

Now I am waiting for the game to go f2p so I can finish my last 2 characters and, on occasion, pvp.

Without JTL or better space content this is just another hotkey, actionless mmorpg focused on punching scripted NPCs and out gearing pugs in pvp.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my interest in space. I wouldn't have played the beta. I wouldn't have preordered. I wouldn't have leveled any characters.

I knew space was just rails at launch, obviously, but they had hinted at their "big plans" even before the guild summit, and then the "secret space project" has kept me around and interested (until august.)

Now I am waiting for the game to go f2p so I can finish my last 2 characters and, on occasion, pvp.

Without JTL or better space content this is just another hotkey, actionless mmorpg focused on punching scripted NPCs and out gearing pugs in pvp.

50% agree as in space is 50% of the reason why I play MMO's (TOR these days), the other 50% would be TOR's other features.

I know it's not everyone's priority but it is something that if done well would really make TOR stand out imo.

- PvP space
- Space bounties (or space 'arrests' for Troopers)
- A space flashpoint (you fly to the objective, battle to gain access then you land inside a capital ship and proceed to take it via ground combat mechanics)
- A complete space crafting overhaul (hundreds of craftable items for ships, from those that increase functionality to those purely cosmetic)
- Space related loot (from space kills)
- 'Pilot' as a seperate profession with a space skill tree and level progression (SWG allowed everyone to be a pilot profession alongside their main class so why not in TOR?)
- A whole fleet of new ships with different characteristics (slow bombers with increased firepower but less maneuverability for example)
- Fully customization options for your ship's interior. Think Rift's recent player housing expansion...but using those mechanics for the inside of your ship.
- Multiplayer ships. Let your friends man the turrets and co-pilot seat (to run the overloads) while you pilot.

Now all of the above were evident in SWG. From the Stardestroyer Flashpoint (Heroic mission) to the customization. It was all done very well in SWG and was one of the few reasons why so many stayed despite the worst MMO 'upgrade' in history (NGE). The game sunk but many, if not all, would agree that the space aspect wasn't the reason why it died.

If BW add-in a handful of the above i'd be happier than a Bantha in poodoo. Doubtful but I wouldn't have bet much on Romney a few weeks ago either...Tis a funny world

[Anjerith]

i meant EA not activision. Ea has a history of breaking companies via micro managing to destroy them then scoop up their IP rights for in house use.

The fact that you blindly blamed an unrelated company pretty much invalidates any contribution you could have to this conversation and labels you as a troll - if you can proceed beyond that, more power to you.


As for the game, every Star Wars title that doesn't embrace the Tie Fighter philosophy of space combat is simply going to fail so long as they attempt to include Space Combat. Tie Fighter is just that good, even today.

[RoninaThorstone]

*snip*
Now all of the above were evident in SWG. From the Stardestroyer Flashpoint (Heroic mission) to the customization. It was all done very well in SWG and was one of the few reasons why so many stayed despite the worst MMO 'upgrade' in history (NGE). The game sunk but many, if not all, would agree that the space aspect wasn't the reason why it died.

I can not fathom how anyone can look at SWG then look at Swtor and think that it was okay for EA to deliver less than SWG.

I mean, think about it.

They took SWG offline because this was clearly suppose to be the replacement.
And what we got with swtor, in terms of space, was on par with the Galaga wanna-be in SC2 (the cantina).
We were just expected to be cool with that. Yeah. No.

And to everyone who is about to type "SWG DIDN'T LAUNCH WITH SPACE DUDE. GAWD"
Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided would be released on June 26, 2003.
Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed was the first expansion to the MMORPG Star Wars Galaxies released on October 27, 2004

That's, what? 16 months?

We are almost at the 1 year mark with swtor and we haven't even seen an alpha video, trailer, or dev chatter about what Swtor is planning for space.
But I can practically guarantee it won't be out in 6 months.

[Edge-]

They took SWG offline because this was clearly suppose to be the replacement.

No, SoE and LA couldn't come to an agreement on the licensing of the IP. The most likely scenario is that LA was asking for too much money and SoE didn't believe that SWG could compete in a market with a competing, HUGE budget Star Wars MMO. SWTOR was never supposed to be a replacement, it was just another Star Wars MMO, and one that took a radically different direction (theme park vs. sandbox).