Is it shameful to lose to Second Wind?

[Deleted]

You still cant do 8k DPS ? I did 8k DPS on my Death-Knight at level 80 in WOTLK.

Lets assume he has 60% resilience while the warlock player has 40% pvp power, which means that the warlock must be stacking pvp power. (100-60)*1,4 = 56% damage taken, or 34% damage reduction.
Let us now counter in the fact that he sits in defensive stance as well. (1-0,34)(1-0,25)*100 = 42% damage taken, or 58% damage reduction.

So lets see how much dps is needed. You mention 2,5% healing. I know it has been nerfed in pvp areas, but with how much. I thought it was 2%? But do you count in pvp power healing (40%), and the recent 15% overall nerf to healing?

Anyways, assuming 2,5% hp with a hp pool of 360k: 0,025*360 / (1-0,58) = 21,4k dps needed to kill him. Let me tell you something.. Shadow priest and affliction warlock dots don't do 21,4k dps on dummies in full PvP gear (which is required to have 40% pvp power). So come again. Even far, far less than 21,4k dps. Our dots basically ticked for around the same damage in 4.3, since Blizzard wants to shift away from dots over to direct damage.

But lets not counter in 3 silences every 30 sec (3 sec each), 4 sec shockwave every 20 sec, fear immunity, spell reflect, 1 min cd on intimidating shout, insane mobility with every possibility to escape, pillars he can run around if he gets lower than 10% hp, and the fact that he can blow the warlock up within very few seconds when he gets his cooldowns up again.

There is a reason why the only time you get a kill on a warrior in 3s is because he forgot to switch to defensive stance, gets deep freezed, and sits in the open like a retard, while Los'ing his healer. Any other melee would be dead long before that happened.

The only class that can win against warriors 1v1 are beastmaster hunters who blow all their CDs, and warriors themselves. A caster got zero percent chance if the warrior knows what he is doing.

[Deleted]

@Funkthepunk Second Wind will never heal for 21,4k per sec. How did you calc that number excactly?
When you have a 360HP and it heals for 2,5% per sec its 360*0.025=9 9*1.4= 12,6k is the max healing you will get when you have 360k hp and 40% pvp power.

And PvP Power doesnt cancel out Resi.

[Deleted]

@Funkthepunk Second Wind will never heal for 21,4k per sec. How did you calc that number excactly?
When you have a 360HP and it heals for 2,5% per sec its 360*0.025=9 9*1.4= 12,6k is the max healing you will get when you have 360k hp and 40% pvp power.

And PvP Power doesnt cancel out Resi.

Look at the math. It is very simple. I am calculating his damage reduction into it. If you as a player has 40% pvp power, the warrior sits in defensive stance and has 60% resilience, you need to do 21,4k dps assuming second wind heals for 2,5% of your hp (with a hp pool of 360k).

It's very simple. Look through my post. Everything is correct. If you are unsure about anything just ask into it.

Edit:

Lets say we use your example.

12,6k healing per second. Since the warrior only takes 42% of the original damage (because the opponent has 40% pvp power, the warrior has 60% resilience, and defensive stance gives 25% damage reduction), you need to do the following damage:

12,6 / 0,42 = 30k dps. That means if you do 30k dps on dummies you do 12,6k dps on the warrior, exactly enough to keep the warrior on 34,999% hp.

This calculation differs from yours because you calculate 40% pvp power healing into second wind, which I didn't do in my example.

[Deleted]

hahahhah are you guys honestly saying you can't outdps second wind? You must be really bad.

[Deleted]

hahahhah are you guys honestly saying you can't outdps second wind? You must be really bad.

No we are not saying that. We are caculating how much DPS is needed to get through it.

@Fuck I am a little confused still. You mean you need to do 21,4k dps on a dummy right?

[Deleted]

No we are not saying that. We are caculating how much DPS is needed to get through it.

@Fuck I am a little confused still. You mean you need to do 21,4k dps on a dummy right?

Yes, if second wind heals for 9k every second, you need to do more than 21,4k dps on a dummy to outdps second wind on the warrior. But If pvp power really grants 40% extra healing to second wind then it is 12,6k dps on the warrior, which means 30k dps on a dummy.

[Deleted]

Yes, if second wind heals for 9k every second, you need to do more than 21,4k dps on a dummy to outdps second wind on the warrior. But If pvp power really grants 40% extra healing to second wind then it is 12,6k dps on the warrior, which means 30k dps on a dummy.

Then we are on the same line again . But in 3s you will most likely play double dps and in that case you only need 2 do 15k damage each and that should be rather reasonable right?

[Deleted]

Then we are on the same line again . But in 3s you will most likely play double dps and in that case you only need 2 do 15k damage each and that should be rather reasonable right?

If you are playing a wizard cleave in 3s (which is the only team that doesn't have a warrior or a bm hunter), a warrior is basically able to shut down all damage from one caster.
So like I said before, the only way to get a kill on a warrior in 3s is if he sits in the open, in a deep freeze, while losing his healer, not having his trinket ready, him not being in defensive stance, both his partners CC'ed, and him already being on 60% hp when you do the switch.

Which is a completely unrealistic scenario. I've done like 70 3v3 games this season on around 2050 mmr. Around 60% win ratio. 90% of the teams had a warrior. Like one out of the 40 games, where we won against a warrior team, we got our first kill on the warrior. I am not saying it's impossible to kill him afterwards 2v3, but it is completely unreasonable to go for the warrior when both the healer and the other dps (unless it is another warrior) are much easier to get a kill on.

[Deleted]

That is true, but you are also forgetting Rallying Cry for even more HP.

TBH all DPS classes should have there selfhealing removed, but burst also needs 2 be toned down.
As you said sitting in a deep is a gaurenteed kill. i got in 1 2 days ago. 100k FBomb 80k FFB 60k IceLance and a 100k CBolt and 70k ShadowBurn. and that in less then 4sec.

[Deleted]

Yes, if second wind heals for 9k every second, you need to do more than 21,4k dps on a dummy to outdps second wind on the warrior. But If pvp power really grants 40% extra healing to second wind then it is 12,6k dps on the warrior, which means 30k dps on a dummy.

I'm pretty sure pvp power does not increase second wind or any other form of indirect or non-casted heals.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure pvp power does not increase second wind or any other form of indirect or non-casted heals.

My second wind heals me for 12-13k so it actually does which is pretty retarded imo but what the hell SW isnt the real problem with a war

[Tsuna]

I don't pvp on my warrior because of the dirty feeling I get, like cheating on a chemistry test. That said, Second Wind is a godly outrageous talent that basically poops in the face of any and all who dare to look down on warriors. I wouldn't say it's the hp that does it so much that it's the illusion that the warrior is so close to death that drives people to make mistakes. I've dueled dks (no pvp gear on me) as prot and just derped in circles hitting shield slam revenge and devastate til I drop to SW threshold, then start being a totally jerk and double spell reflecting things, and repeatedly using low Rage shield barriers to just kill their dots.

Best duel I've had with a DK, he got really mad after about 30 seconds of my hp not moving, Froze me and started channeling Army. I Human Racialed and Intimidating Shouted him before the second ghoul popped up. Spent the next 6 seconds /dancing. Avatar Rage Reck Shockwave /faceroll instawin XD.

[Deleted]

Warrior can still be kited by most caster classes - keep the Warrior in SW and don't get burned by him, pop your own CDs and nuke him. The Problem is not the Warrior, the Problem lies within HEALING in Arenas - and that's still an overall Problem nobody seems to mention. Ever tried to burn down a Heal Druid? He simply pops his heal on himself and runs around laughing at any DPS incoming - you try to slow, root, stun him - he gets out in no time and if he can play he's near immortal. I'd take near immortality over a Burst that can be prevented quite easily.

[Deleted]

I just don't see the problem here. Second wind will NEVER heal the warrior over 35% so all you have to do is line up a burst combo and he goes down.
I suppose warlocks are utterly shocked they can no longer dot a warrior up then run behind a pillar and collect the win. (Like the OP obviously thought he would get away with).

[Deleted]

I just don't see the problem here. Second wind will NEVER heal the warrior over 35% so all you have to do is line up a burst combo and he goes down.
I suppose warlocks are utterly shocked they can no longer dot a warrior up then run behind a pillar and collect the win. (Like the OP obviously thought he would get away with).

This. Kiting a warrior was a powerful tool for years and it still is, just that kiting alone won't seal the deal anymore as it did before.

[Babylucifer]

This. Kiting a warrior was a powerful tool for years and it still is, just that kiting alone won't seal the deal anymore as it did before.

Thats the problem. With the toolkit warriors now have access to kiting them becomes a almost impossible feat* for most casters. like somebody said earlier, SW in of itself is not the inherent problem. Its all the stuns, snare/fear immunity tools warriors have combined with it that make it so strong.

[Deleted]

Thats the problem. With the toolkit warriors now have access to kiting them becomes a almost impossible feat* for most casters. like somebody said earlier, SW in of itself is not the inherent problem. Its all the stuns, snare/fear immunity tools warriors have combined with it that make it so strong.

Others have such tools, too. Icemage had those tools for years and still has such tools + the burst. Slow, Stun, Snare + insane Mobility were the tools icemages used in pvp for years. You get fear immunity for how long - 6 seconds? Then you have 24seconds where you can be easily feared. How long is trinket cooldown? You just have to use your CDs at the right time and a warrior is just as easy to kill as any other class. Timing >> all in PVP

[Deleted]

Others have such tools, too. Icemage had those tools for years and still has such tools + the burst. Slow, Stun, Snare + insane Mobility were the tools icemages used in pvp for years. You get fear immunity for how long - 6 seconds? Then you have 24seconds where you can be easily feared. How long is trinket cooldown? You just have to use your CDs at the right time and a warrior is just as easy to kill as any other class. Timing >> all in PVP

Get a grip on reality. No other class can compete with warriors at the moment. Warriors were considered overpowered back in season 9, before the nerf that made them pathetic. Compare the utility tools a warrior had back then with what they have now.
And out of the 24 seconds the warrior can be feared, 18 of those seconds will cause fear to DR, which means a silly 4 second fear. Basically a waste of a fear cooldown that could be used on another target that doesn't have a 30 second fear immunity cooldown.

[Deleted]

I would honestly say you could have kited him around using portals etc and wait until all your cds are back to heal yourself back to 100% instantly while hes staying at 30% cause youre throwing a dot on him while kiting, but i understand you, they global you if they touch you.

[Punctured]

TL;DR - People completely incapable of doing math.

Im bad at math, but just wow.

First off, unbuffed health in full Dreadful is something like 340k.

2.5% of 340k = 8500 HPS

Your dots should be pulling far more than 8500 DPS at level 90, even with resilience. This isnt even counting the mortal wounds effect either.

@Funkthepunk - Um Warlocks dont even need to worry about Warrior cooldowns, like i said its as easy as Demonic Portal+LOS, i do it all the time. I do a trick on my Mage and Paladin when theyre casting Shattering Throw, LOS them and run around to wear out their CDS, completely survive their burst. Then i counter burst them and destroy them.

Berserker Rage gets approximately 6 seconds of fear immunity, thats nothing compared to the old 10 seconds we used to get.

@Players saying its our tool-kit - Wrong yet again, Warriors damage is the issue here and nothing more. Stupid complaints from bad players are getting us nerfed in the wrong areas. Guess what, we will now officially be reliant on one-shotting players when we get our hands on them, our cooldown stacking still exist and our damage is still the same. The only tool-kit issue was the silence on pummel from Gag Order, that should of never existed.

Warriors will be reduced down to S11 state by the time 5.2 hits, im sure of that. Because they nerf Warriors without any compensation.

---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 12:31 PM ----------

My second wind heals me for 12-13k so it actually does which is pretty retarded imo but what the hell SW isnt the real problem with a war

Um no it doesnt, unless youre stacking stamina gems, which is a retarded waste and isnt helping you at all.