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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    They are just trying things to get people to participate in RBG's. The problem is that until they figure out a way for individuals or very small groups to randomly que and be rewarded its never going to be that popular. A very large chunk of the people that wanted RBG's were every day people who just loved doing normal BG's, but were always behind gear wise because you couldn't get the top gear in BG's. Instead of figuring out a system for those players and more hardcore PvPers alike who really just prefer BG's, they did nothing but create an oversized Arena match.

    Thats why it has been not so successful and will continue to be. Right now you essentially have small scale Arena teams, and large scale Arena teams which is not what what most of the player base was wanting when it was announced.
    Nail in the head here, the system was created without a proper demographic in mind, and thus no one wants to use it.

    People who wanted conquest for BG's wanted the ability to solo queue for BG's and be able to earn some conquest through another means than arena, instead, Blizzard created another method for people already doing arena to gain conquest for the week. And those people, already content with Arena grinding, don't want to waste time b finding 5-7 other guys to effectively get the same reward when there is an easier method available to them

    They added a feature for a demographic that didn't want or need it, rather than the one that asked for it and should have been designed for.
    And should he be a prophet of It's coming, he shall be cast out by his kin and his peers, for they cannot comprehend and fear the end of the corrupt empire. - Unknown, 3/1/2012
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  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    What the hell is the point in making PVP gear harder to get? I'll never understand that logic. It's a failed design.

  3. #43
    Brewmaster Knadra's Avatar
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    I understand why they put it in but they could of done something different to get rid of win trading.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    You know you just described Raiding (10 man particularly) perfectly, right?
    What I didn't describe was anything that PvP players are generally interested in, except for that .01% of them that still play RBGs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 12:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Exactly. There was no reason to have this based on anything other than personal random BG w/l record.
    A record that people have manipulated since the beginning of WoW, er, since just after the beginning of WoW, by leaving BGs when they are losing (or in the case of twinks, winning).

    Sure, that makes TONS of sense.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 12:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    What the hell is the point in making PVP gear harder to get? I'll never understand that logic. It's a failed design.
    You're absolutely correct. Better availability of PvP gear would make PvP BETTER.

    In particular, there really should be weapons available from the start. Maybe make them 450 weapons with gobs of PvP stats on them. Make them trivially easy to get.

  5. #45
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xolotl View Post
    It's high time you people join us in the real world, then.

    Because in the real world, people get rewarded for participating.
    It's totally acceptable to come in second. And third. And second to last (if you come in last you should shoot yourself though. /jk it's a game, it's fine to come in last if you're fine with it yourself)
    Not in my Business / Company and the same goes for me. I think the "Real World" includes companies.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    What the hell is the point in making PVP gear harder to get? I'll never understand that logic. It's a failed design.
    I never suggested making it harder to get, I suggested not making it easier. Leave it as it currently is, but offer more incentive to try, to learn your class inside and out, to learn to work with a group of people.

    Someone said it was stupid to compare this to raiding, I bet they haven't worked on a single boss for 4+ hours only to see his health drop 5-10% from the previous days attempts. If you want to justify people getting rewarded for not winning, I can sit here and justify why I should get something for my 4+ hours of boss attempts.

  7. #47
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    I never suggested making it harder to get, I suggested not making it easier. Leave it as it currently is, but offer more incentive to try, to learn your class inside and out, to learn to work with a group of people.

    Someone said it was stupid to compare this to raiding, I bet they haven't worked on a single boss for 4+ hours only to see his health drop 5-10% from the previous days attempts. If you want to justify people getting rewarded for not winning, I can sit here and justify why I should get something for my 4+ hours of boss attempts.
    Completely agree. Very well put!

  8. #48
    AFK/Bot - Loses (gets honor)
    Player, trying their best against pre-made - Loses(gets same honor as AFK'r/Bots)

    Whats the complaint?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 02:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Not in my Business / Company and the same goes for me. I think the "Real World" includes companies.
    So companies don't hand out "Best Salesperson of the bonus" or "Honorable mention" rewards at all? Man what a shitty company.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    This isn't game breaking for me, and I'm not even going to act like I'll rage quit, but this is seriously ridiculous. Why are Blizzard even considering giving someone a reward for a "close" game? If you don't win, you don't win.
    Like goodie bags, this is to encourage participation. Rated BGs are essentially raids and it only awards a trivial amount of CP and some title. That time someone can spend in a raid and get actual gear.

    Never liked Rated BGs. It's a PvP raid in the worst way, all the old skool organizing and all the headaches to go with it. Give me an AV weekend anytime over that.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  10. #50
    I think this statement says enough on Blizzard's thought pattern when it comes to PvP.


    Crowd Control – At the moment, we’re satisfied with the state of crowd control.

  11. #51
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Coming close in PvP is much more costing because it means less honor, conquest, and a drop in rating. In addition, there is a greater downtime between PvP attempts.

    Also, the "lesser gear for wipes" in PvE is called rare trash drops.
    Unsubscribed as of 03/10/2014.

    If you dislike where WoW is headed in your mind, quit. Really. Sitting around complaining about "promises" that may or may not have been made isn't doing anything to help your cause. It's just making you look more and more like the constantly complaining and perpetually offended.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Also, the "lesser gear for wipes" in PvE is called rare trash drops.
    Yeah, that's one of the very few ways raiders can actually make some gold while raiding.

    (PvP players are always complaining about the lack of gold from PvP, but ... well that's silly if you compare it to the cost of leading-edge raiding.)

  13. #53
    High Overlord Ghost Note's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    Yea, I don't like this change either.

    Unless its like honor points or something that doesn't really matter.

    I don't want to return to the BC days of losing your way to epics.
    I would be OK with this.
    90 Paladin, 90 Disc Priest, 90 Warrior, 90 Druid, 90 Mage, 90 DK, 85 Rogue

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    I came into this thread ready to read something stupid that didn't make sense, but I find myself agreeing with you fully. This change is completely ridiculous.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    I know there are a lot of things people want to bitch about, day in and day out, but I normally just go with it, and accept the changes. But this is just dumb. I know at the end they said "this is not patch notes, and some of this may not come to pass...blah blah blah" But the fact that they would even consider this just blows me mind.

    Rated Battleground Participation Rewards – If you’ve PvPed for any length of time, you’ve been in one of those matches where the final score is so close that victory was a breath away. When we do our jobs right and give you one of those really close matches, it’s sad to not get any reward for participating, so we want to give out some kind of small reward. The rewards will be based on the final score to discourage exploitation.

    At this point, why not just give a smaller amount of gear from a boss in a raid if you get him to 5% and wipe? You shouldn't have to be rewarded for trying, no matter how hard you try, you get rewarded for completing a task.

    This isn't game breaking for me, and I'm not even going to act like I'll rage quit, but this is seriously ridiculous. Why are Blizzard even considering giving someone a reward for a "close" game? If you don't win, you don't win.

    I also acknowledge that they said it will be small reward, but regardless, who gets rewarded for losing? are we 6 year olds on a T-Ball team?
    more spoon feeding to bad players ... thats all i will say

    winners win

    losers bitch and complain rather then solving the issue

  16. #56
    Pandaren Monk
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    Tbh RBGs are just boring. It's not the chaos kind of fun that regular BGs have. Like The0o said it seems the first team to get an advantage wins because the other teams just gives up, thus boring. This might work... probably won't but at least they're trying.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post

    This isn't game breaking for me, and I'm not even going to act like I'll rage quit, but this is seriously ridiculous. Why are Blizzard even considering giving someone a reward for a "close" game? If you don't win, you don't win.
    Then what are you complaining about ? Don't try to compare PVE and PVP.

    RBG's can last 15-20 min, to lose by a close amount still means that either team played well enough against each other. a 1600-1590 game is much different then a 1600-0 game

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Synche View Post
    Then what are you complaining about ? Don't try to compare PVE and PVP.

    RBG's can last 15-20 min, to lose by a close amount still means that either team played well enough against each other. a 1600-1590 game is much different then a 1600-0 game

    so by your logic the REALLY horrible pvp guild on my server can now be happy cuz they q for loosing rbgs all day and now get rewarded for it ONLY cuz they sat out the duration of the game

    if you get pissed cuz you lost a game 1600-1590 YOU ARE A BAD PLAYER end of story

    good pvpers look at what went wrong and work to change it ... they accept losses as what they are ... which are learning experiences

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeydivision82 View Post
    I know there are a lot of things people want to bitch about, day in and day out, but I normally just go with it, and accept the changes. But this is just dumb. I know at the end they said "this is not patch notes, and some of this may not come to pass...blah blah blah" But the fact that they would even consider this just blows me mind.

    Rated Battleground Participation Rewards – If you’ve PvPed for any length of time, you’ve been in one of those matches where the final score is so close that victory was a breath away. When we do our jobs right and give you one of those really close matches, it’s sad to not get any reward for participating, so we want to give out some kind of small reward. The rewards will be based on the final score to discourage exploitation.

    At this point, why not just give a smaller amount of gear from a boss in a raid if you get him to 5% and wipe? You shouldn't have to be rewarded for trying, no matter how hard you try, you get rewarded for completing a task.

    This isn't game breaking for me, and I'm not even going to act like I'll rage quit, but this is seriously ridiculous. Why are Blizzard even considering giving someone a reward for a "close" game? If you don't win, you don't win.

    I also acknowledge that they said it will be small reward, but regardless, who gets rewarded for losing? are we 6 year olds on a T-Ball team?
    I'm struggling not to just say "cool story, bro" here.

    Let's cover some bases.

    PvP is designed so 50% of the players lose every possible encounter. Period. Regardless of skill.
    You know how the players on the losing baseball team still get paid?
    You know how both boxers get paid for the fight regardless of who wins?
    You know how they have silver and bronze medals at the olympics, because you could get the 900 best people in the world in an event but only one of them can ever win at any one time?

    Who the hell would bother to compete if your odds of being paid at any given event were about only about 75% even if you were 50% better than your opponents on average?

    Seriously. Spend all this time making an effort, get stopped by someone that's better than you, and stop getting paid. Do you A) keep spending time and money to compete against that team or say "I'm not working for no money, mopping floors at an elementary school is more productive at this point."

    FFS, "wiping" in PvP is something that must happen to one of the teams, 100% of the time, by design, regardless of objective skill level. There can't be 2 winners.

    I'm guessing some people imagine that the super bowl winners get paid, and the losers just go home and try again next year without even getting paid.

    Only the winner should take home the ring, but the loser should still get paid or competition would be pointless.

  20. #60
    The reward is likely to just be half as much conquest points that you'd get for a win, even if it was a skin-of-the-teeth loss. RBGs have such a minuscule demographic that this change is only in there to make it so it is not nearly as painful to do RBGs for your conquest points as it is currently.

    You can spend 30 minutes in a game of Gilneas or Basin (or longer if flags are contested often enough) and even if you lose by only 10 points, you get 0 conquest points as opposed to the 400 you would've got if you won.

    Compared to arenas, in a 2v2, where you can be so drunk that you can enjoy listening to Ke$ha, and eventually you'll fight players who are worse than you and win games, getting 180 conquest points for 2 minutes of play.

    And as for the whole "rewarding people for losing", it's no different than it is already. You can still queue for arenas, as many times as you need to, and eventually you'll fight players that have disconnected, leave for no reason, or are just plain worse than you, and you'll be able to hit your conquest point cap. Hell, you can even fight people who get their conquest gear solely from winning Random Battlegrounds in their sleep, while their bot plays their character to get the wins they need.

    It's a good change to help bring more people to play RBGs without wanting to pull their teeth out anytime they lose a game and realize they have to sit in another 10 minute queue, hope the game doesn't last a half hour, and win it ontop of that.

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