1. #1

    Iso Mistweaver helo.

    Hey guys,

    I'm a raid leader of a small 10 man guild and at the moment we're progressing on Elegon, our healers are having problems, mainly out mistweaver.

    I've been reading as much info as I can get my hands on and I can't seem to find any set stat weights, or a way to generate them. Simcraft has no support for mistweavers as far as I can see, and Valen's calc doesn't really make much sense to me. From what I understand it's Spirit > haste to 1345 > crit > haste > mastery, is this correct?

    I was also reading a lot about fistweaving and was concerned that I don't ever see our monk dps'ing, like at all.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yyxe8qxywn5n7gog/

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...d/Nenne/simple

    Those are our logs from the other night/her armory, I would really appreciate any help you guys could give me so that we can kill this damn boss and move on.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    as a monk myself in a 10 man environment you just don't have time to fistweave a lot. their is entirely to much damage going out. sure in a 25 man raid as a raid healer and not a tank healer i can see where the time to do that would exist and allow a monk to excel at it. but not in a 10 man, to much direct healing needed for him to be throwing undirected spells around.

    last but not least.. mastery sucks for us.. it just creates more of the health globes on the ground that no one ever uses. my suggestion reforge haste for faster casts and more ticks. generate your chi with your cheapest abilities when possible and spend them dont sit on 4 max. use em and generate more so that your tea gets up which allows you to get mana to spend.

    even fistweaving can take a ton of mana if done wrong leaving you oom with no tea (this is bad place to be) we dont have the mana returns that other classes have so getting mana back or using it wisely is of top priority.

    i noticed that he has chi burst and not chi-wave i can tell from experience chi-wave is very very powerful on how much it heals (then bounces 6 more times). looking at your kills he's not even using his chi burst (only used it twice on feng and none on gara'j ) get chi-wave and enjoy the free healing it should add more than what he's using chi-burst for (which depends on a lined up or stacked group)

  3. #3
    Atm, I prefer spirit>haste 1345>crit>mastery>haste although mastery over crit is still popular too. Her regen is huge which should be a good thing although the amount of surging mists used with no vital mists means a lot of mana gone.

    Aside from the obvious Renewing Mists and Expel Harm, it looks like she's using she's using soothing mist, surging mists, and CJL as big chi producers (and chi brew on cd). Personally, I use zero of those to generate chi as they are too clunky and sometimes I never get a chi (minus surging mists which I try to never use unless it's on cd from vital mists and/or absolute emergency). With better chi production the uptime of RJW will be higher and so the output of SCK will be higher.

    There are some that do zero dpsing to get their chi. I don't know how they do it without spinning all the time. /shrug
    Last edited by Junnia; 2012-11-01 at 08:57 AM.

  4. #4
    So, not dpsing in a 10 man is fine, secondary stats are all about preference, but mastery is shit and better cooldown management?

  5. #5
    I as a 10 man monk healer personaly don't dps alot.. I mean i might go for a jab to generate a chi if needed but that about it.. Or in phases where no healing is needed etc.

    Anyways I'm guessing this thread is about Elegon first and then monk healing second? (I mean learning what to do on Elegon as a mistweaver monk)

    I personaly love chi burst. And on Elegon it's and easy to use spell.. People (should be) pretty much standing in a line and in the last phase you can just make sure to position yourself right and it's good.. How ever Uplift should still come out on top so this first little part was more about promoting chi burst.

    Another thing i did on elegon was to go for Rushing Jade Wind for the increased ScK. Spamming SCK + Uplift in that last phase really gets the HpS going.. Just make sure to keep up the renewing mists.
    Also defuse magic use it..

    I'm brining up the RJW + ScK because i can see him have RJW but on the longest tries (which would get you to last phase) he never used it.

  6. #6
    tbh Mcturbo is wrong haste past 1345 rating is our worst stat even worse then mastery. we are not getting the 2nd haste breakpoint ever at this moment and it does not speed up any or our core spell because they are all instant. soothing mist does not benefit from haste and surging and enveloping mist are both instant while channeling soothing mist.

    on the topic of fistweaving there is a lot of discussion on the forum already. basically it comes down to using jab for some fast chi generation because coothing is too rng so for instance in your raid the monk can jab the add when it is dragged outside to have 4 chi up to uplift a large part of the raid twice to get them back up in health fast.

    let him try and avoid surging mist as much as possible it is only a o shit he/she is gonna die if i don't use anything else then surging mist. at 24k mana per spell it is way to expesinve to cast much. on the topic of chi wave chi burst or zen sphere. on encounters where people are stacked chi burst by far wins out of both others. chi burst outheals uplift except where uplift is on more then 8 targets. chi wave is way to slow and not enough aoe healing in that fight to be usefull for anything but a windwalker monk. on RJW or Xuen both are good RJW for the 50% extra sck but if you jab for chi and then uplift or chi burst that is potentially more healing Xuen buffed on that boss does around 1.2 mil dmg or something like that. it can help with getting boss down faster which means less healing is needed. and also his dmg heals the raid. so it just depends on what you want. to get RJW alone for the last phase is not really worth it. for instance you can pop Xuen when the adds spawn from 3rd phase to aoe them down faster and then again pop him on the last phase of elegon. but it is a personal preference what to use there.

    so in short

    Stat Prio Spirit(until comfortable with regen)-> Haste (1345 rating)-> Intel -> Crit -> Mastery -> Haste (past 1345)
    Chi Burst > Chi Wave
    RJW = Xuen

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurii View Post
    I as a 10 man monk healer personaly don't dps alot.. I mean i might go for a jab to generate a chi if needed but that about it.. Or in phases where no healing is needed etc.

    .
    Dont underestimate the power of eminence on Elegon

    Also, is it the very last phase you're having problems with?
    What I do is focus on spreading renewing mist out on everyone, and just jab>jab>uplift my way to victory and save the revival for as late as possible.
    I also sit on the boss until I have at least 12 stacks of the debuff before I teleport in and chi torpedo back to the boss (my teleport puts me behind the ranged so I get some free healing on the ranged when I torpedo back. )
    Diffuse magic as late as possible on the stacks and torpedo out and in again to reset the stacks one last time.

    We also have our boomkin pop his tranquility during the last transition when everyone is taking loads of damage from adds and shit. It REALLY helps a ton with stabilizing the raid before we go into the last phase.

    also to conserve mana, when you kill the balls, jab jab uplift on elegon when the balls dies while having renewing mists on everyone on your side. And drink a potion of focus when the last set of pillars spawn (drink a manatea right before the potion and right after. TONS of mana there)

    There are multiple videos on youtube. I got one if you'd like to see even though I didnt know wtf I was doing since it was the first kill :P

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Placidlol View Post
    So, not dpsing in a 10 man is fine, secondary stats are all about preference, but mastery is shit and better cooldown management?
    Take one look at those logs top 3 healing spells used 3rd is mastery u can see how much it sucks personally i go for spirit>int>haste 1345>mastery>crit>haste

  9. #9
    AMR uses Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery

    from Icy Veins: http://www.icy-veins.com/mistweaver-...rity-reforging
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
    Is there a term you have for being shown proof and choosing to dismiss it?
    Starting a Monk Blog; Celestial Fists: http://celestialfists.blogspot.com/
    Called Garrosh as end boss: 10/28/2011

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sinisterwyvern View Post
    AMR uses Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery

    from Icy Veins: http://www.icy-veins.com/mistweaver-...rity-reforging
    yes they do but haste is only important until 1345 rating. after that it does not do much for mistweavers. 1345 rating with the 5% haste buff from raid will give a extra tick on some of the spells. after that it is impossible to get enough haste for the second tick. and seeing that most of our spells are instant (assuming you do not hard cast a surging or enveloping mist but channel soothing mist quick to make it instant) ReM, Expel Harm, Jab, SoM, SM, EM are all instant and do not benefit from the extra haste past 1345 except when you reach the next cap wich is at like 8k+

    therefore you should have haste till 1345 as very important better then crit and mastery and after 1345 is becomes wost stat.

    @ vamonos, indeed mastery can be quite good but only in certain cases. if your raid members walk through them all the time and pick up orbs when needed then yes its very good. if they do not then mastery drops a lot and crit will overtake mastery.

  11. #11
    In my experience, Xuen is more powerful than RJW on almost all fights... Elegon included. With your statue in the group, and all the bonus damage on Elegon, you'll be surprised at how much healing Xuen does. I've parsed fairly high on 10 man normal Elegon, and Eminence is 16.6% of my total healing on that fight.

    I really think that jabbing for Chi is the best way to go. You gain it so much faster and more efficiently by jabbing than you do with any other spell, and even on Elegon where you need to reset stacks, you have the mobility to do it between rolls, Transcendence, and using Diffuse Magic or Zen Meditation to remove the need to reset for an add explosion.

    The general strategy I use on the fight is to pool Chi for the add explosions, using TFT and Uplift to get all 10 members of my raid covered with Renewing Mist, and then have 4 Chi ready to go for the explosion. Two uplifts in a row, followed by Chi Brew and two more is more than enough to top everyone off. Jab Jab Uplift gets me through basically the entire fight, until 35%, and I am generally 75% mana going into the last phase, allowing me to switch to SCK SCK Uplift (subbing in Chi Burst if I don't have my whole raid covered in Renewing Mist).

  12. #12
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Scandinavia
    Posts
    2,457
    Our mastery is very situational. The spheres can be a bit hard to see on Elegon, with all the shinies and stuff. It's hard to model properly - if all orbs get picked up by people who won't get overhealed, mastery is good, but if orbs expire it's wasted. Getting good data about that is difficult. I personally don't like it much.


    As for the logs, the Renewing Mist uptime is a bit low. On Feng yesterday, I had 13% more RwM ticks per minute. Check the second Renewing Mist spell in the "buffs cast" list to compare uptimes - casting RwM on cooldown flawlessly should get you a 50% uptime. No Expel Harm at all on that fight. Both are cheap chi generators (while also doing a fair amount of healing), which also shows in lower use of chi spenders. In the long run, that'll also cost you mana efficiency through loss of Mana Tea stacks (in addition to the fact that both Expel Harm and Renewing Mists are excellent cheap spells). Also, logs show an overall overhealing on Revival of 39%; that's not good, and means much of our big cooldown's potential is being wasted (think of it as our Tranquility).

    On a related note, defensive cooldown use is also low. I don't see a single use of Fortifying Brew, and only three uses of Diffuse Magic over the course of the entire raid. Both abilities can and should be used multiple times each fight to minimize the damage you take, which lets you worry less about your own health during heavy AoE (and thus potentially saving others).
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rush042 View Post
    In my experience, Xuen is more powerful than RJW on almost all fights... Elegon included. With your statue in the group, and all the bonus damage on Elegon, you'll be surprised at how much healing Xuen does. I've parsed fairly high on 10 man normal Elegon, and Eminence is 16.6% of my total healing on that fight.

    I really think that jabbing for Chi is the best way to go. You gain it so much faster and more efficiently by jabbing than you do with any other spell, and even on Elegon where you need to reset stacks, you have the mobility to do it between rolls, Transcendence, and using Diffuse Magic or Zen Meditation to remove the need to reset for an add explosion.

    The general strategy I use on the fight is to pool Chi for the add explosions, using TFT and Uplift to get all 10 members of my raid covered with Renewing Mist, and then have 4 Chi ready to go for the explosion. Two uplifts in a row, followed by Chi Brew and two more is more than enough to top everyone off. Jab Jab Uplift gets me through basically the entire fight, until 35%, and I am generally 75% mana going into the last phase, allowing me to switch to SCK SCK Uplift (subbing in Chi Burst if I don't have my whole raid covered in Renewing Mist).
    Xuen is indeed more powerful. RJW is almost a healing loss per chi, xuen is a free 1-1.5 million healing. Xuen > chi torpedo > RJW.

    Jabbing for chi is more efficient, more reliable, and faster. Never soothing mist for chi. (4x faster at generating, 3k cheaper per chi on average, not rng)

    Basically I'm agreeing with this guy, his advice is perfect for elegon.

    Further, upon reading the logs of the OP's monk:
    RnM on CD, almost always. he couldve used 55 on feng and used 40. Use Jab not soothing mist for chi, see above. Don't use surging mist, holy cow. That spell is the least efficient thing we have in the game, let alone the fact that theres a holy paladin healing who should be able to solo heal tanks on most fights. Windsong gives an average of 900 crit/mastery combined, as compared to jade spirits 300 int. Windsong is generally better for MW. Lastly, tell him to use expel harm for chi more often. He never used it, and its our cheapest chi/mana as well as being a strong self-heal. I use it on CD in 25s.

    In conclusion:
    More RnM
    More Jab/SCK
    Less SoM and SuM.
    Xuen > chi torpedo > RJW.

    PS: a little nit picky: CD management makes monks go from good to amazing. It's the main difference between me doing 135k hps and the other monk in my raid doing 100k hps on Garalon. That being said, the post I quoted gives a good example for how to manage your CD's on elegon 10m.


    As for stat weights:
    I run int > haste (til 1350) > crit ~ spirit (until around 7500 spirit) > mastery > spirit (past 7500) > no gear > haste.
    I run 7500 spirit for comfort, past that I have no mana problems on fights (I can pretty much sustain jabx2/uplift for six minutes straight w/o going oom) and prefer to be able to put out more throughput instead. Crit scales best with uplift. About twice as well as mastery on uplift.

  14. #14
    One thing for sure.. nobody does the same damned thing with this class.

    For me, RJW+SCK is the deal breaker.. that thing tops everybody off and is my life saver most of the time.. I can use it more often, I think Xuen, though I never tried it, as a way to big cooldown to be valuable.

    And I don't melee at all.. I use SM/ReM/EH to generate Chi and stay at the border of the bubble.. then SCK prior and after explosions. In the orb waves, I dps the orbs for the first 2 waves then I actually need to heal people.

    Obviously being used to all other healing classes, it's probably why I don't dps, but I really don't feel it's needed, plus I have a feeling that this will get nerfed to match disc priests... Atonement has never done awesome heals and was more or less a way to help the dps and so some-kind of healing. But then again I'll probably have to jab my way around on Garalon tonight.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest

  15. #15
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Scandinavia
    Posts
    2,457
    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    Don't use surging mist, holy cow. That spell is the least efficient thing we have in the game...
    One notable exception: Gara'jal spirit realm. Then spam it.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •