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  1. #301
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    <snip>
    So you're going to speak for all races and all people because you can read their minds? Like a raging schizophrenic with a crystal ball?
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  2. #302
    Poor sad people that decide to take offense in stuff for no damn reason at all.

    Seriously, if you're getting pissed off because you think MoP is just some satire to stereotype and put down Asian culture you're a moron incapable of realizing the difference between inspiration and racism. If you think Blizzard is saying "Lol the Chinese are panda people" with this expansion, you are purposefully choosing to be upset.

    Can you not just see that "hey we like this stuff and we like the art and landscapes so let's put it in something else we like, the game we make."
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
    Is there a term you have for being shown proof and choosing to dismiss it?
    Starting a Monk Blog; Celestial Fists: http://celestialfists.blogspot.com/
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  3. #303
    High Overlord Fyersing's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned, if false characterizations or exaggerated characterizations are enough to categorize something as racist then almost everything in the world can be viewed as ethnocentric to some degree; you think blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-skinned, English-speaking "Asians" in Anime is an accurate depiction of the Orient?

    There is a difference between poor characterization used for entertainment purposes and poor characterization used for political and/or social purposes; for instance, telling a joke about a hook-nosed Jew is often hilarious (and even Jews themselves partake in these comical acts), yet using that same feature as a reason to exclude, deny service, relocate or annihilate said people is wrong. The cry racism herein seems like much ado about nothing.
    Last edited by Fyersing; 2012-11-05 at 06:32 AM.

  4. #304
    Dreadlord xiza's Avatar
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    I still enjoy it, everyday I discover another small detail in this huge expainsion.
    Like a few days ago, while I was diggin up some archaeology stuff, I've spotted an empty chair in one digsite. Next to the chair was an instant noodle box and a can with some kind of soft-drink. Since there was a cogwheel poppin' up when I've hovered the chair, my character sat down and watched the sunset in the vale of the eternal blossoms.

    Like I said, I'm still enjoying this expansion :3
    ›› Paws ›› Pawz ›› ...blowing the dust off of my druids, I'm ready for WoD... somehow |:

  5. #305
    Yeah im tired of it too. my favorite expansion was wotlk by a wide margin. very captivating environment

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Narutownsyouall View Post
    I am enjoying it I can only hope they make a cool anime theme
    I can only hope they never ever ever even think of doing such a thing.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I was wondering how people with Asian heritage viewed the expansion. I had my suspicions that it was blatantly stereotyped and pandering (lol). I guess the target demographic is white people that like the thought of "Asian stuff", but have no clue what's authentic and what isn't?
    I'm as Asian as Kevyne, and I don't find MoP to be the least bit offensive. At least, not so far. I appear to not be as well aged, so the traumas of past injustices don't ring as loudly to my reality as they apparently do to his.

    I was actually quite disappointed when I learned that Blizzard had "caved" to the masses and was actually going to be offering the Pandaren as a player race. I'm still not entirely pleased with the way the females came out, but I love the males. Player race aside, I've enjoyed what I've seen of them in Pandaria. I guess it depends on how you perceive their behavior - some of my guildies insist that the Pandaren are hypocritical, but that hasn't been my experience so far. The themes are strongly Chinese, and that's not my ancestry; Blizzard had to make the Pandaren very distinctly Chinese, I think, or Chinese players/censors would have been deeply offended that anyone could associate their sacred beast with anything as uncivilized as the Japanese (and to varying degrees the other Asian nations, I assume).

    It doesn't seem insulting to Asian nationalities at all, to me. Perhaps I'm oblivious, and need things pointed out to me. I've been enjoying a lot of the music, as well, though I can't claim I absolutely LOVE all of it. Some of it's very bland and stereotypical, but there was a lot of bland music in past expansions as well.

    I suppose I'd compare expansion themes this way: None of them should be taken too seriously.

    Walking through Vanilla reminds me of going to a European themed Ren Fest.
    Going through Outland, well, that was just downright trippy with a combination of Caucasian fantasy (elves and orcs) and Caucasian sci-fi.
    Wrath reminded me of a cross between Pioneer Trail and the Vikings, but with more bones, more blood, and an end boss who seemed like an utter joke to me until it was time to face him down at his throne.
    Cata was just plain odd, a theme park but without a single theme other than "look at everywhere that's still molten rock!"
    MoP is, obviously, the Asian theme park with some emphasis on China, but not solely that one country.

    None of them felt particularly realistic, none felt particularly edgy or dark or hardcore, but that's just my personal opinion.

    I love the Grummles. I like the Klaxxi story line and really hope we get to see their entire story progress, rather than have them remain at odds for the next 10 years, and I love the Klaxxi architecture (and, to an extent, I love how annoyingly arrogant they are). I'm not looking for injustices or stereotypes to take issue with. That there are lots of Pandaren in MoP that speak with a "down south" American accent struck me as really odd, but I'm not sure how else they'd convey the atmosphere of an unsophisticated country bumpkin in a Chinese accent I wouldn't be able to tell from any other Chinese accent. Am I disappointed that they went with white voice actors putting on bad accents? Sure. They could afford the real thing if they'd wanted to, and it would have put a spotlight on some Asian voice talent. But they went with white American voice actors for the Tauren, the Trolls, the Orcs, the Draenei, the Dwarves, despite these races clearly being given themes that aren't "white american." Of course, when they originally recorded the voices they couldn't have had any idea just how popular their nerdy little game would eventually turn out to be - in the end, they're not doing anything particularly different for MoP just because it's got an Asian theme.

    I don't feel like they've taken Asian themes too seriously, nor not seriously enough. Perhaps there's some reference to the political tensions between the Japanese and EVERY OTHER Asian country, but that seems to be stretching things a bit.

    Maybe I'm just happy to find myself in a Fantasy MMO that is no longer completely Eurocentric, and am able to write off things for that reason alone.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    I'm still enjoying it very much, and it's looking to be getting more Horde vs. Alliance-y in 5.1.

    While I understand that the Wall is a "clear" reference to the Great Wall of China, the actual story with it-- manned by the Shado-Pan, meant to defend against a periodic, massive-scale danger and invasion-- actually reminds me MORE of the Wall from Game of Thrones.

    I still don't really understand why people are SO focused on having a euro-centric medieval fantasy word. For me, that's getting seriously old, it's used everywhere. I find Pandaria very refreshing and enjoyable, and I don't think that the Heart of Fear or the Dread Wastes looks stereotypically Asian at all.
    Are the Barrens euro-centric? Orgrimmar? TB? Ashenvale? STV? God I can go on forever. There's very VERY few euro-centric zones in the game. Variety is the foundation of this game. And this expansion lacks it sorely. Hell even WotLK had greater variety in the main themes of each zone. I personally still find tBC to be by far the best in terms of variation and uniqueness in zones as well aesthetic feels for each one.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  9. #309
    For lack of originality, Blizz is using themes based on real life concepts that exist because frankly, you can only make up so much in a fantasy world before stuff starts repeating itself. Not tired of the Asian theme but rather lack of innovation or that something new that makes WoW addicting as when it first was released as Vanilla. The only new stuff I see from expansion to expansion are lore related, tied into the quests, dungeons, and raids. Same car but a new coat of paint.

  10. #310
    @ OP: you say you feel disconnect by the game, because it is inspired BY THE REAL WORLD. Go figure.

    OT: I love it. Just like going to Outland and Northrend, this really feels like a different (part of the) world. I tip my hat to Blizzard.
    Music is great. Instance design (graphics) is great. Really fits the theme and just generally speaking makes you feel as if you ARE taking part in this Asian-inspired culture. Best so far.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 08:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponXAnimosity View Post
    For lack of originality, Blizz is using themes based on real life concepts that exist because frankly, you can only make up so much in a fantasy world before stuff starts repeating itself. Not tired of the Asian theme but rather lack of innovation or that something new that makes WoW addicting as when it first was released as Vanilla. The only new stuff I see from expansion to expansion are lore related, tied into the quests, dungeons, and raids. Same car but a new coat of paint.
    Once you incorporated pretty much all themes, what do you expect? EVERY game has a theme, non of them are original and ALL of them are copied from real life or real life-fiction (as in books, movies, comics)

    It is ALL mankind that made up the themes in real life too you know. Not like it was just there and earthlings started living there.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinxiijay View Post
    @ OP: you say you feel disconnect by the game, because it is inspired BY THE REAL WORLD. Go figure.
    I don't read a fantasy novel because I want to learn about a history I'm already acquainted with.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    I don't read a fantasy novel because I want to learn about a history I'm already acquainted with.
    Because ALL Warcraft lore represents real life history, right??

    No.

    We are talking design and architecture here, not "content" and lore.

    Your argument is flawed.

  13. #313
    Well, I have to admit I'm a bit tired of it. Not because I think it doesn't fit or something, I just don't like the timing. There's been a huge hypen on Asian culture recently, and it has just started to calm down and quite frankly, I was rather appy about that. Asian culture is cool and all, and I think it's going to continue influencing western culture in the future, but I would have liked a little break of everything having to be related to Asia. I even go as far as claming it would have been much more interesting and respective of the culture to introduce the expansion in puer interest and not as a part of some huge hype and because "Asia is cool now and we have to abuse that".

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    I don't read a fantasy novel because I want to learn about a history I'm already acquainted with.
    Then you should welcome the Asian theme since most American history courses, even those supposedly covering the world, are centered around Europe with little more than footnotes and colonialism for the rest of the world.

  15. #315
    Not really, no.

    I accept that Pandaria is a continent with a rich and very much different flavor than the rest of Azeroth, considering it's been isolated for so long within the story.

    I tihnk it fits, in a way. Sure, it's not classical Warcraft but if the only thing we would be fed is the same Alliance vs Horde conflict on the same high-fantasy Azeroth that we have for the last decade or so, it'd get kinda boring.

    I like it when they throw in something different here and there. Let's not forget that Outland was technically in space and Northrend had a very clearcut theme that differed greatly to the rest of Azeroth at the time aswell.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  16. #316
    Well, I don't care about lore and I like the way it looks, so I'm fine with the theme and not tired of it
    Arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do or say, he will just knock over the pieces, take a shit on the board and strut around like he won the whole damn thing.

  17. #317
    I was bored of the asian theme long before the game even came out.

    There are certain things that belong in warcraft, this theme however, is not one of them.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post

    Fantasy-Adventure is Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim. It's not undead reanimating the dead to do their bidding and a whole expansion based on death and decay. That is horror. Know the difference.
    But if I recall correctly, and I know for a fact it was there in Oblivion because I watch a friend summon a billion of the buggers out of scrolls for an hour, there's plenty of undead and reanimating. Hell in Skyrim wasn't the entire last DLC based off vampires? And yet you clearly say it's not horror. So your own examples debunk your own point I suppose. The dead reanimating is an element used by horror but simply having it doesn't make a piece of media horror.


    WotLK is horror in the same way that Sean of the Dead is horror. Sure they both depict some gruesome imagery, both have zombies, etc etc. But while there is a dual utilization of the key features the desired effect and implemented effect are completely different than a horror movie.


    Let me ask you this were you as equally perturbed by the portrayal of Norse culture and mythology in WotLK? Are you as equally defensive about Trolls sounding Jamaican? Quite honestly your offense to MoP would be like my Italian relatives pissing and moaning about how racist Good Fellas was. I mean is stargate racist to Egyptians? Where does it end I guess is the question I'm asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blimey View Post

    There are certain things that belong in warcraft, this theme however, is not one of them.
    And with that detailed and riveting explanation as to why I have become totally convinced and swayed by your logic. Not that I would expect you to write an essay on the subject but surely some sort of base reasoning should be provided other than "I said it therefore it must be so".
    Last edited by shimerra; 2012-11-05 at 08:34 AM.
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  19. #319
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Are the Barrens euro-centric? Orgrimmar? TB? Ashenvale? STV? God I can go on forever. There's very VERY few euro-centric zones in the game. Variety is the foundation of this game. And this expansion lacks it sorely. Hell even WotLK had greater variety in the main themes of each zone. I personally still find tBC to be by far the best in terms of variation and uniqueness in zones as well aesthetic feels for each one.
    Something cataclysm also did quite well I might add.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #320
    Some people love the whole Asian theme, so you may receive as many different answers to this as there are people in China.

    Personally I loved Northrend, because I felt that they capctured parts of my culture quite well with zones like Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills. And let's face it, the music when you get on the boat to Northrend...
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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