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  1. #1

    What on Earth happened to rogues?!

    Just did some BGs on my Windwalker Monk kicking some ass (pun intended)... and then this rogue opened on me popping Killing Spree, was glowing red I assume it was the Deeps trinket and had berserking..... it tickled...

    What happened to rogues, I don't get what has happened to drastically make them soooo weak it was absurd I even giggled a little O_o

    edit: I'm not even joking... did they get like an across the board damage nerf or something ? Like cut by 40 % odds
    Last edited by Kuhnai182; 2012-11-16 at 11:50 PM.
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  2. #2
    The Patient Krixooks's Avatar
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    1. He was probably very undergeared
    2. Rogues were overpowered last season, and they are slightly below average this season.

    Please don't encourage the QQ
    everyone is well aware of this now.

  3. #3
    lol he had to be under geared. my resto shaman has full pvp gear and a rogue freaking destroyed me with killing spree.

  4. #4
    Hmm, seems pretty odd then - could have been gear, but then again my gear isn't so good myself either tbh, ilvl 468 afaik
    i require ham.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fainth View Post
    lol he had to be under geared. my resto shaman has full pvp gear and a rogue freaking destroyed me with killing spree.
    I'm a resto shaman, I'm half epic pvp geared. If an rogue destroyed you that easily, you're doing something wrong.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    I'm a resto shaman, I'm half epic pvp geared. If an rogue destroyed you that easily, you're doing something wrong.
    If you are only half epic and never been destroyed by a (combat) rogue you only faced terribad rogues.

    See wut I did thar ?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    If you are only half epic and never been destroyed by a (combat) rogue you only faced terribad rogues.

    See wut I did thar ?
    You confused me is what you did thar
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  8. #8
    They got balanced, that's what happened.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    They got balanced, that's what happened.
    Rogues are far from balanced in their current state, but won't go into that discussion as what needs to be fixed for them to be balanced can be found by going into rogue forums and just looking around a bit.

  10. #10
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    If you are only half epic and never been destroyed by a (combat) rogue you only faced terribad rogues.

    See wut I did thar ?
    I didn't see what you did there, please explain All you did was reverse his statement - at which point is ceased to make any sense.

    To my knowledge no rogues are playing combat at a high level right now - it's an entertaining spec but nothing more (I think there is like 1 rogue in an RMP at like 2500 that isnt MMR exploiting - even then he probably farmed some exploiters - because everyone is right now). Subtlety has considerably more burst than either other spec right now via Shadow Blades + Shadowdance for magical Ambush-spam. Mutilate has a good deal of pressure (in large part to high poison based damage) but still isn't quite as strong as subtlety if you coordinate your burst well (Mutilate suffers from being energy starved).

    Combat distantly trails both specs in terms of useful damage and utility - blade flurry is really the key to the specs damage - which is great for pressuring people but will almost never score you an actual kill on account of it taking half your damage and applying it to the wrong target. The great utility of combat rogues is of course the 8.4 second stun (Revealing Strike + Kidney Shot), and that's pretty impressive - but if you face a combat rogue in any comp that's going to be what you want to save your trinket for (not so much because of the stun itself but because you know its what they will coordinate their burst around). Which brings us to Combat's burst - Revealing Strike -> Shadow Blades -> Kidney Shot -> On-Use Trinket -> Killing Spree -> Sinister Strike Spam? It's not terrible - when coordinated with a teammate - but it's nothing on what the bursty classes this season can bring to bear when they want to scare.

    Rogue problems right now are myriad, I feel I could make arguments for them being not mobile enough, lacking survivability, heavily cooldown dependent and yet not having very impressive cooldowns (comparatively) anymore, and even lacking damage (sustained in the case of subtlety, burst in the case of combat and mutilate). Now, buffing one or two of those things (but they would have to be pretty significant buffs) would be more than enough to fix them - classes are supposed to have weaknesses - but when the list of weaknesses pretty much covers all the categories we judge classes on in pvp - that's a problem.

    So please, explain to me what I didn't see there - why are combat rogues able to solo resto shamans (except in the case where there is a massive skill discrepancy)?
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  11. #11
    High Overlord Tuulikki 27's Avatar
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    hehe, the tears of an angry moderator from canada!

    See what I did thur? got myself some infraction points! XD


    But really, no combat rogues? none? not one? not one rogue out there wanted to be combat? o.O I find this hard to believe.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuulikki 27 View Post
    hehe, the tears of an angry moderator from canada!

    See what I did thur? got myself some infraction points! XD


    But really, no combat rogues? none? not one? not one rogue out there wanted to be combat? o.O I find this hard to believe.
    Yvaelle mentioned a combat rogue in that post, didn't you read it? :P

    People will go for what works, and for rogues that is currently Sub (well for burst anyways). Again Yvaelle covered that pretty thoroughly so I don't really have anything to add
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  13. #13
    Nothing happened to them.
    Players with ezmode legendary's stopped playing them once MoP hit, and the scrubs that did great are still attempting to use them, to no avail.
    I have full MoP blues (except jewelry), dual 442 daggers @ 85, and absolutely destroy shit as sub with ~80% mastery.

    All depends who you run across now :P

    *edit
    Ambush is terrible btw, you're lucky if it hits for 10k... not sure what's going on there. Backstab spam does FAR more damage for me.

  14. #14
    What happened is Blizzard listened to whining fools with no memory. Anyone with a memory remembered that rogues were completely fine in Cataclysm until legendary weapons and that trinket came into play. It was the same in Burning Crusade, rogues becoming overpowered due to legendary weapons and raid gear outshining arena gear. Nobody seems to be smart enough to recognize that, though, and blames the class instead, so it gets nerfed unnecessarily and now they completely suck.

  15. #15
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuulikki 27 View Post
    hehe, the tears of an angry moderator from canada!

    See what I did thur? got myself some infraction points! XD


    But really, no combat rogues? none? not one? not one rogue out there wanted to be combat? o.O I find this hard to believe.
    I didn't infract you, you were reported for trolling and instead of infracting you I tried to engage you in a discussion, to make you explain and expand your pseudo-trolling into an intelligent debate (I failed apparently, because now you're trolling me as well). I also didn't cry - because I'm not a rogue - and having rogues nerfed is a great thing for priests and warlocks (my mains), that doesn't mean I think rogues are balanced right now (they aren't, they need real buffs not just small tweaks - to achieve balance - even if that's at the expense of my personal enjoyment of not having to deal with them lately).

    Further, I didn't say combat rogues didn't exist - I said there are no combat rogues at high level pvp right now (there are tons of pve combat rogues though, and I'm sure there are tons of low or even medium rated rogues just fooling around as combat), if you find that so hard to believe feel free to try to find a rogue that plays combat at high level - but I'm pretty much certain you won't - rogues are like 1% of players over 2200 right now, that 1% consistents entirely of like rank 1's and gladiators from last season: and they aren't willing to handicap themselves anymore than they have to this season (they play to win). Nobody is rerolling rogue right now, in fact - top rogues like Reckful are ditching the class they love to play a class that is competitive (and for that I sympathize with rogues).
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-11-17 at 05:57 AM.
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  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire zanexlol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deftones View Post
    Nothing happened to them.
    Players with ezmode legendary's stopped playing them once MoP hit, and the scrubs that did great are still attempting to use them, to no avail.
    I have full MoP blues (except jewelry), dual 442 daggers @ 85, and absolutely destroy shit as sub with ~80% mastery.

    All depends who you run across now :P

    *edit
    Ambush is terrible btw, you're lucky if it hits for 10k... not sure what's going on there. Backstab spam does FAR more damage for me.
    You're 85 and think your opinion matters.

    That shit's funny.

  17. #17
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Rogues been always like that at every start of every expansion they start below average because of scaling issues but wait until you see the last season of MoP they will become insane again although not as insane as Cata last season because no more legendary bat man for you. :P

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Rogues been always like that at every start of every expansion they start below average because of scaling issues but wait until you see the last season of MoP they will become insane again although not as insane as Cata last season because no more legendary bat man for you. :P
    Everyone is getting a legendary this time so....

    Rogues have never started out this bad, Dmg will scale up sure but that won't fix any of the big issues rogues have now. Dmg isn't the main issue its everything else.

  19. #19
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Everyone is getting a legendary this time so....

    Rogues have never started out this bad, Dmg will scale up sure but that won't fix any of the big issues rogues have now. Dmg isn't the main issue its everything else.
    Yes they were bad at the start of wotlk before ulduar as well but don't forget that pve items will not work well now in pvp because it lacks the pvp power stat which make pve items kinda weak in pvp.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord aeir's Avatar
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    They're pretty much what they were back in Wrath. Maybe a tad worse - maybe.

    Also, legendaries weren't the reason they were so good last season.
    in depth.

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