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  1. #201
    Posting for my GM Jordvik (Because I MIGHT be able to post links...)

    Hi Folks. I run a casual raiding guild with a group of friends. Some with a great deal of innate talent and some with... less. We have a good time but when we run into a serious deficiency that hinders our progress, I try to do what I can to do some extra parsing and research to find the problem. Sometimes it can be a very simple thing that they are missing (Shaman forgetting to put on lightning shield, Rogue forgetting to turn off Blade Flurry, etc).

    Specifically I have a Ret pally friend who is having a really hard time. I did some poking around when he was lower geared (he is ilevel 491 now) and found that proportionately his damage seemed to be similar to higher random pallies that I used for comparison, but doing much less damage per attack than they were. He is up to ilevel 491 now and it hasnt seemed to make much of a difference. He did great damage in Dragonsoul but maybe that was just the nature of the boss fights or the Ret dps, because since MoP he has been reliably low, often below my tank (Blood DK).

    If any of you have some time on this lovely maintenance day, to drop a few tips or look at our most recent logs for him and see something glaring, I would be most appreciative. As a new poster at MMO Champions it doesnt seem to be letting me post any links though.

    His name is Chipstock on US-Thunderhorn and his logs are showing at WoW Heroes.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...stock/advanced

    World of Logs:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1w9ty1qa6v7tn6wo/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/455jzf2ema9qt21q/

    I do know he has the set shoulders for tank on, hopefully he will be getting this changed tonight. He picked the wrong ones last night in haste, just looking at the Exp/Mastery stats instead of the set bonus.

  2. #202
    Alright, well there are quite a few things here. He is under both hit and expertise cap. Sanctified wrath is better than holy avenger in 95% of situations. His choice of gearing is questionable, specifically the crit on use trinket. He has fairly low inquistion uptime. However, the main reason his damage is probably so low is the fact that he's using seal of righteousness on every fight. He should be using seal of truth on every fight, and seal twisting to SoR for AoE situations.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  3. #203
    In addition to Revvo's comments, his CD usage (HA, ES, AW and GotAK) are all extremely low. In your Blade Lord kill he was spec'd for HA (or not spec'd for anything somehow) and did not use it once.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Sanctified wrath is better than holy avenger in 95% of situations.
    Is it?

    HA is still very comparable, so it's a matter of personal preference between the two.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Is it?

    HA is still very comparable, so it's a matter of personal preference between the two.
    It's good for AoE Burst, but other than that, it's not very competitive, especially with the new tier bonuses.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    It's good for AoE Burst, but other than that, it's not very competitive, especially with the new tier bonuses.
    Not very competitive? Based on what data?

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    Not very competitive? Based on what data?
    The fact that 99% of Rets in top guilds aren't using it on a daily basis? I'd love for you to show me a log where you, or someone else parses higher using HA on a single target fight.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  8. #208
    In my experience, SW does indeed pull ahead single target due to the way most of the new trinkets work. it also allows you generally increased range if (god forbid) you have to use it during a period in which you don't have 100% melee range uptime on a boss. There are plenty of fights where HA is great, like horridon to blast down adds.

    just anecdotal evidence, anyway

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    The fact that 99% of Rets in top guilds aren't using it on a daily basis? I'd love for you to show me a log where you, or someone else parses higher using HA on a single target fight.
    You stated that it's "not very competitive" when in fact HA and SW are rather close. I don't care if SW is marginally better that rets from top guilds are using it simply for min-maxxing, stop spreading misinformation.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Fargus View Post
    You stated that it's "not very competitive" when in fact HA and SW are rather close. I don't care if SW is marginally better that rets from top guilds are using it simply for min-maxxing, stop spreading misinformation.
    Link me a log showing that. Please.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  11. #211
    Revvo - something not happening isn't proof that it can't. Low sample size greatly affects the breadth and variance of a spread. Admittedly I looked through about 10 before finding this one, but here's one log of a ranking ret using holy avenger.

    the fact that rets from top guilds arent using HA doesnt MAKE it bad, you would assume its *because* its bad. However mathematically its really not that bad which is Fargus' point. People at the top just really care about those 1% differences.

  12. #212
    Blademaster
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    Since alot of the most common sites are not working at the moment

    Could some one please help me out with the best way to enchnat and reforge, I think im doing ok, but its always better for second advice

    here is my armory

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dnzlady/simple

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Link me a log showing that. Please.
    Here you go.

    SimC has them really close. The onus is on you to prove that HA isn't competitive (you made the statement, you back it up). This isn't DP we're talking about here, HA and SW are both viable choices.
    Last edited by Fargus; 2013-03-29 at 09:43 AM.

  14. #214
    I'm new to this page, so can't link any logs or armory but if you can check Hegez - Bloodhoof EU. I feel that my dps is way too low considering my gear. Just tried on the raiders training dummy with only kings buff, got only 70k over 6min. With might buff it went up to 77k. The thing is i used to do that much on training dummy before i got my current weapon and some other new lfr stuff. I know i have way too much hit but can't reforge any more away I know it would be sooo much easier to say something with logs but unfortunately can't post them.

    As rotation i start with exorcism, judgement, CS when i get to melee range, INQ, then pop ES+my trinket, then after GCD has went, pop all the rest. Then with prio exorcism, CS, judgement as they come off cd. And try to use TW when 3-5 holypower depending is any other ability off cd.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as i feel i'm falling so much behind of other guildies.

  15. #215
    Hegez -

    For the start of a pull, continue as you do, getting Inq as soon as you have 3 HP, then pop AW/Guardian/trinket and prioritise J > CS for the duration of AW. Use ES sometime during AW, preferably when guardian has 20 stacks and your brutal talisman trinket has proc'd. Try not to delay any HoW during this time to cast ES; swap out a J to cast the ES instead.

    Not much else to be said, your gems/chants look good and I sympathise with you over the amount of hit you have (minor change would be swap the str gem in your legs to str/haste). Looking through some of your logs (available from wow-heroes) your Inq uptime is fairly low, on all jinrokh attempts your max uptime was around 82%, except for the kill which was 90%. Your cd usage looks decent enough from what I can see, no point in using the haste trinket with ES though as ES doesn't benefit from haste. You'd be better using it when you 'pop all the rest'.
    Other than that, logs from more than sha/jinrokh would be helpful.

  16. #216
    Thanks for the tips will post some logs when we get more since people have been lazy with logs lately. Would do it myself but no idea how tbh, might check into it and see how it goes.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by rinzshady View Post
    Since alot of the most common sites are not working at the moment

    Could some one please help me out with the best way to enchnat and reforge, I think im doing ok, but its always better for second advice

    here is my armory

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dnzlady/simple
    Your link is broken, but enchanting and reforging are really simple:

    There is always one best enchant for a given gear slot, there is no question or uncertainty. If you're not sure what yours are, I believe they're in the ret guide on this forum or you can find them on icyveins or noxxic.

    Reforging - The only way to know your absolute best gemming and reforging path is to deeply understand how both mechanics work and to sim your own character. It is NOT WORTH IT unless you are in a bleeding-edge progression guild.

    Download reforgelite, auto-reforge your gear, and call it a day. Its only a fraction of a percent of dps difference.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 05:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hegez View Post
    Just tried on the raiders training dummy with only kings buff, got only 70k over 6min. With might buff it went up to 77k. The thing is i used to do that much on training dummy before i got my current weapon and some other new lfr stuff.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as i feel i'm falling so much behind of other guildies.
    77k self buffed on a dummy isnt really that bad. Might shouldn't be as much of a buff as Kings though, so if your dps increased by switching it was probably just luck.

    Jade charioteer trinket is pretty darn bad, if you have any other trinket you should replace it.

    world of logs is pretty simple, just go on there and make an account, its intuitive to get it set up

  18. #218
    only trinket i have what i could replace it with is lfr trinket from lei shi. Hoping to get lfr trinket from Horridon or Ji-kun next reset.

    Will check word of logs when i can

  19. #219
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    With the buff to seal of the righteousness in 5.2, what is the minimum amount of required targets before it is a dps gain to use? Is it still 6?
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  20. #220
    4 targets is enough but they should live for more than 20sec to be worth it in pure numbers. If the adds are an emergency, swtch anyway to maximise damage on them even if it diminish your "dps" due to switching in a short span-time.

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