[Holy] Fix my Heals!

[PosPosPos]

Intellect procs aren't worth a lot to us. Your old one may also be pretty crappy, but at least you're gaining some benefit from the two passives

The flex trinket intellect proc is roughly 1597 int on average.

Multistrike accounts for 1-2% of total healing, which is probably going to be higher or at least equal to LIC, not to mention LFR LIC.

On the whole, I would say flex multistrike is a clear winner. Still a terrible trinket, but at least its a significant buoy due to the ilvl gap.

[Freia]

Then you're gimping yourself by not giving yourself the maximum possible mana return (which, if you're using Divine Plea, it's to get mana back, so to say it's not needed for mana regeneration is just silly) in order to possibly have an AoE interrupt that should never be needed unless basically your entire raid screwed up to begin with. For PvP, I can see it having some use with not macroing it. In SoO, there are literally only 2 fights were I could see it ever conceivably being used (Galakras and Garrosh) and in both instances, the raid would have to be screwing up mightily to need it. In fact, for garrosh in particular, using AT for the MC's can actually harm your raid, as a healer or caster being silenced for 2-3 seconds after coming out of MC is not something you want to have happen.

Not binding it, you essentially are saving it solely for an interrupt, and even though that it's not on GCD, having to hit an extra button every time you need mana just seems inefficient, at best.

It isn't gimping yourself in the slightest binding them seperately and its a macro slot I would not waste.

[Xs]

The flex trinket intellect proc is roughly 1597 int on average.

Multistrike accounts for 1-2% of total healing, which is probably going to be higher or at least equal to LIC, not to mention LFR LIC.

On the whole, I would say flex multistrike is a clear winner. Still a terrible trinket, but at least its a significant buoy due to the ilvl gap.

You're applying DPS thoughts to a healer item, you can't just blanket state an average Int value and assume that means its better than static. Also, I'd be surprised if Multistrike made up for even 1% of your healing, unless you run significantly less healers than you need or just a plethora of shit healers.

[Deleted]

The flex trinket intellect proc is roughly 1597 int on average.

Multistrike accounts for 1-2% of total healing, which is probably going to be higher or at least equal to LIC, not to mention LFR LIC.

On the whole, I would say flex multistrike is a clear winner. Still a terrible trinket, but at least its a significant buoy due to the ilvl gap.

My personal opinion is that static intellect is a lot better than intellect proc for a holy paladin. Main reason being as proc it's random and therefore might proc when you don't need it and don't proc when you need it. You could track the proc and use LoD pre-shields to minimize the overheal however I'm not sure how effective that would be compared to a static gain.

The multistrike proc isn't as good as LIC proc in my opinion. I think it's too unreliable to use it as an extra healing power. You wouldn't want to use a weaker heal and wait for a proc. I took a look in some of my older logs and LFR LIC was doing around 1.5% of my healing with 2nd EF Haste breakpoint. Not to mention it does almost no overhealing because it's a smart heal.

[Deleted]

At the start of this tier I ran multistrike and im pretty sure it accounted for 1.5-2% on every single fight (not that its the most useful kind of healing) but I would still weight it above LIC, personally I was using heroic warforged multistrike over heroic thunderforged LIC. However fact is that the cleave trinket beats multistrike on every single fight and at this point you should have atleast cleave + horridons (which is the very worst case scenario).

[PosPosPos]

You're applying DPS thoughts to a healer item, you can't just blanket state an average Int value and assume that means its better than static. Also, I'd be surprised if Multistrike made up for even 1% of your healing, unless you run significantly less healers than you need or just a plethora of shit healers.

I get 1.5% average on my disc priest, and 2% on my holy pally with the normal version of the trinket.
Hpally actually procs multistrike a lot better than what most players would expect from a shield class, due to the fact a big part of our healing now is EF, and EF ticks do proc multistrike. Not to mention, EF ticks are small enough to proc multistrike in a way that doesn't promote excessive overhealing.

Also, a proc that nets more than 50% average boost than a static gain, is definitely superior in my book.

It's like saying DP provides 50% extra boost to healing overall compared to HA, you would see a lot more pallys running DP instead.

[Freia]

My personal opinion is that static intellect is a lot better than intellect proc for a holy paladin. Main reason being as proc it's random and therefore might proc when you don't need it and don't proc when you need it. You could track the proc and use LoD pre-shields to minimize the overheal however I'm not sure how effective that would be compared to a static gain.

The multistrike proc isn't as good as LIC proc in my opinion. I think it's too unreliable to use it as an extra healing power. You wouldn't want to use a weaker heal and wait for a proc. I took a look in some of my older logs and LFR LIC was doing around 1.5% of my healing with 2nd EF Haste breakpoint. Not to mention it does almost no overhealing because it's a smart heal.

Interesting, because every version of that trinket I used of it resulted in mostly overheal despite being a smartheal and it looked the same in most logs I looked at for other healers as well.

[Xs]

I get 1.5% average on my disc priest, and 2% on my holy pally with the normal version of the trinket.
Hpally actually procs multistrike a lot better than what most players would expect from a shield class, due to the fact a big part of our healing now is EF, and EF ticks do proc multistrike. Not to mention, EF ticks are small enough to proc multistrike in a way that doesn't promote excessive overhealing.

Also, a proc that nets more than 50% average boost than a static gain, is definitely superior in my book.

It's like saying DP provides 50% extra boost to healing overall compared to HA, you would see a lot more pallys running DP instead.

If you want to play the EF game, I could apply Resto Druid logic to it, and considering they have 2-3x more hots up than we have and I've never seen it do close to 2%, barely even reaching 1%, I'd say your numbers are false.

[Freia]

If you want to play the EF game, I could apply Resto Druid logic to it, and considering they have 2-3x more hots up than we have and I've never seen it do close to 2%, barely even reaching 1%, I'd say your numbers are false.

I've seen it between 2-3%, and really don't understand why you find it so unreasonable that 540 Multistrike is better than 502 LIC. LIC wasn't a good trinket , and that is a huge ilvl difference. We used LIC simply for the static int and because the other trinkets minus horridon's were garbage. But with that ilvl difference the Int proc is enough to overtake LIC.

And based on your experience it hasn't done 2% so everyone else's numbers are false? Yea awesome argument there. And are you saying you never seen it do 2% on your resto druid? Because if we want to bring other classes into it, 3% wasn't uncommon on my monk and I had it go up to 5% a few times just healing on 10m normal on my monk. And that was just the raid finder version.

[PosPosPos]

If you want to play the EF game, I could apply Resto Druid logic to it, and considering they have 2-3x more hots up than we have and I've never seen it do close to 2%, barely even reaching 1%, I'd say your numbers are false.

Freia basically just said whatever I wanted to say, if you ever had both trinkets to try out, you would already know the multistrike is better than LIC given their huge ilvl difference.

LIC accounts for a lot lesser healing going from previous tier to this. The average hps of LIC is largely unchanged from previous tier because its scaling is fairly weak compared to multistrike, the latter of which is basically a 5%++ boost to your overall healing, while LIC is a lot lesser than that.

In any case, multistrike only requires an average of 20% effective healing, which is more than possible to achieve, in order to contribute to a 1% boost to overall healing.

In any case, here are some logs of paladins using the healer multistrike:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6305&e=6768
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5138&e=5461
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7339&e=7806
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11444&e=11927
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6127&e=6436
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3064&e=3423

Granted, one of them is using the HWF multistrike, but the healing boost from flex to HWF is merely from ~4% to ~6%, so you could multiply by 0.66 to find out what the flex version would heal for.

[Tyranader]

I just did all of Flex up to Seigecrafter (Doing Achivements) and Multi-Strike on average did like 2.5-3% of my total healing done according to Skada and the trinket procs like crazy so I think I am going to keep it equipped.

[nightfalls]

I just did all of Flex up to Seigecrafter (Doing Achivements) and Multi-Strike on average did like 2.5-3% of my total healing done according to Skada and the trinket procs like crazy so I think I am going to keep it equipped.

Yeah, a few things:

At this stage of the game, intellect procs are not that bad. Personally my belief is that procs were vastly inferior in Tier 14. That belief's changed now, partly due to different healing styles, more overhealing in today's game, legendary cloak, and the changed state of cooldowns (an oversaturation of them, to be specific).

Item Level is generally king when it comes to trinkets especially those with similar effects (Multistrike versus Restoration of the Infinite for instance). I just weigh the amplification and int/spirit trinkets (Samophlange and Horridon) higher than heal-proc trinkets (Nazgrim, Thok, and LIC).

Don't forget the Samophlange scales with human racial (does not apply to you) and with PPP. Horridon does not.

[PosPosPos]

Just feel like the multistrike and cleave trinkets could have been made more favourable by significantly increasing their proc rate but reducing their healing boost to make the procs more stable.

[Deleted]

Interesting, because every version of that trinket I used of it resulted in mostly overheal despite being a smartheal and it looked the same in most logs I looked at for other healers as well.

It might just account to me not being that good of a healer and having a bit lower gear for the content I was doing. Since being the proc it is I imagine that if you use your actual healing spells to keep people topped up then the trinket will mostly just contribute to overheal.

In that notion multistrike proc might be better as seeing while it's not reliable proc wise(and neither is LIC) it has higher chance of hitting the targets you find priority.

[Lucyrotten]

It might just account to me not being that good of a healer and having a bit lower gear for the content I was doing. Since being the proc it is I imagine that if you use your actual healing spells to keep people topped up then the trinket will mostly just contribute to overheal.

In that notion multistrike proc might be better as seeing while it's not reliable proc wise(and neither is LIC) it has higher chance of hitting the targets you find priority.

The problem with extra healing on a priority target is that every smart heal in the game had the same idea so even if YOUR multistrike trinket healed, someone else overhealed for the same amount. Obviously I'm simplifying, but we're not healing in a vacuum and looking at the healing team's balance and overall healing/overhealing isn't inconsequential when it comes to doling out loot.

Is going from an LIC to Thok's an upgrade? Absolutely. Should you get it over a druid? No. The druid should get it. I might even argue that the valor trinket with on use spirit is a better trinket than the LFR LIC for an EF build. I know we're talking about a LFR -> Flex swap but lest anyone think they should get the Thok trinket over a class it's actually good for, no you shouldn't it's still pretty crap for us.

[Ducoudray]

Hello! I'm having some trouble pulling what I believe would be 'good' numbers as a Holy Paladin.

Armory Link:Armory
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Glyphs: Divinity, Sacrifice, and Beacon of Light is my usual line-up. I will sometimes change out Beacon for Protector of the Innocent. Spec wise, I've been playing around with Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger. I will also switch between Holy Prism and Light's Hammer on some fights - though I tend to use Holy Prism more often.
Worldoflogs Link:I usually PUG Flex groups, or run LFR. While I don't have a WoL parse, I do have this data from recount. http://i.imgur.com/s2g5kgM.jpg
Questions, concerns, expectations: I'm hoping to learn if my playstyle is just completely out of whack, or if it's just a problem of gear/talents/glphs, etc. I'm worried I'm not playing my paladin to the best of my ability. I have played a healing Druid before, and was able to pull what I thought were good numbers (however, this was from ICC to Cata.)
Description of Playstyle: Playstyle wise, I follow a HS - HR - HS type rotation to build HoPo, and depending on the situation spend it on LoD or EF to blanket the raid. I try to beacon switch when tanks swap, but prefer to keep my beacon on the lower hp tank. I tend to favor a mastery heavy gem/reforge route as well.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Xs]

Armory Link: Armory

From what you've said, with the exception of using LoD, you seem to be on the right track. Its almost impossible to give any useful advise from that Recount though as it lacks a lot of the important points which are needed to measure your performance. The only thing I can really say is what ever you where healing was incredibly easy, and I wouldn't worry too much about your performance in something like that, as you're doing good enough for it. As far as actual criticism though, your Beacon seems very low which suggests either you messed up switching it, or it was an incredibly easy fight. It should look a lot more like: IH > EF > HR/HS > BoL > DL/FoL with LoD being either at the very bottom, very close to that or not even there at all.

For your armory though, your Spirit looks a little bit low, but I can see you're trying to build on that so not a big problem, your Haste is too low to be of any use so you should either focus on it till the next break point (3.5k) or drop as much of it as you can in favour of Spirit/Mastery, and your trinkets are quite bad but I'm sure you know that, just try and replace Thok's tooth with a Regen one and you'll be a bit better off.

If you can grab a decent WoL from Flex though, could give you a lot better advice, specifically Protectors, Nazgrim and to a lesser degree Siegebreaker are good fights to look at.

[Ducoudray]

Ah yeah, that recount was from a very futile attempt on flex Blackfuse. I'll try to get a better parse soon though! I ran flex last night with a guild who may have kept a log. I'll look for it.

I've been trying to find a decent place to land my Spirit at, and while I'm not going completely OOM and use my Divine Plea when I'm at between 75-80% mana usually. It works out most of the time, but could be much better.

So I've forged most of my haste off into mastery or spirit, and hopefully with get the trinket off of Blackfuse this week. Thok's tooth doesn't seem to proc very much accounting for 1-2% of my heals usually.

Thanks for your help!

[Lucyrotten]

Hello! I'm having some trouble pulling what I believe would be 'good' numbers as a Holy Paladin.

Armory Link:Armory
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Glyphs: Divinity, Sacrifice, and Beacon of Light is my usual line-up. I will sometimes change out Beacon for Protector of the Innocent. Spec wise, I've been playing around with Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger. I will also switch between Holy Prism and Light's Hammer on some fights - though I tend to use Holy Prism more often.
Worldoflogs Link:I usually PUG Flex groups, or run LFR. While I don't have a WoL parse, I do have this data from recount. http://i.imgur.com/s2g5kgM.jpg
Questions, concerns, expectations: I'm hoping to learn if my playstyle is just completely out of whack, or if it's just a problem of gear/talents/glphs, etc. I'm worried I'm not playing my paladin to the best of my ability. I have played a healing Druid before, and was able to pull what I thought were good numbers (however, this was from ICC to Cata.)
Description of Playstyle: Playstyle wise, I follow a HS - HR - HS type rotation to build HoPo, and depending on the situation spend it on LoD or EF to blanket the raid. I try to beacon switch when tanks swap, but prefer to keep my beacon on the lower hp tank. I tend to favor a mastery heavy gem/reforge route as well.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Good news! Someone logged your LFR.

Paragons of the Klaxxi: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10158&e=10593
Garrosh Hellscream: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12132&e=12999

The short answer is you use Holy Shock about half the amount that you should and use none of your cooldowns ever.

Check the link in my sig about looking at parses.

[Ducoudray]

Good news! Someone logged your LFR.

Paragons of the Klaxxi: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10158&e=10593
Garrosh Hellscream: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12132&e=12999

The short answer is you use Holy Shock about half the amount that you should and use none of your cooldowns ever.

Check the link in my sig about looking at parses.

Oh wow thank you for finding those logs! That is super helpful. I do need to work on using HS on CD for sure. With CD's in general I have no excuse, haha, I think "oh, I should hold on to these just in case!" Then I end up forgetting. I'll have to keep a closer eye and get used to just using them!

Thanks again.