1. #421
    Tomatoe tomatoo

    Never counted them haha
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #422
    Even if everyone else replies with answers about how many stacks you should have before dropping a BoP -
    I guess the real question is what time is most safe, so Durumu won't go on a melee spree on clothies!
    Try using it when he casts a spell and quickly press a /cancel aura macro after. You can even taunt him before/during the BoP.

    Stay safe!

  3. #423
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arziko View Post
    Even if everyone else replies with answers about how many stacks you should have before dropping a BoP -
    I guess the real question is what time is most safe, so Durumu won't go on a melee spree on clothies!
    Try using it when he casts a spell and quickly press a /cancel aura macro after. You can even taunt him before/during the BoP.

    Stay safe!
    Well yes this is what i always do before bubble/hop-ing:

    1. taunt (bosses "fixates" on you for 3 secs)
    2. hit bubble/hop (removed from boss's threat table for duration......doesnt matter as he is still fixated on you)
    3. cancel the buff (boss decides that you do exist on his threat table again)
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  4. #424
    You can also do it between swings/attacks, as the threat drop only occurs if the boss gets an "immune" response on its swing/attack.
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  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    You can also do it between swings/attacks, as the threat drop only occurs if the boss gets an "immune" response on its swing/attack.
    interesting - did not think it worked like this, but was an immediate threat drop.
    i should pay more attention and drink less beer.
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  6. #426
    It's only hard when you try to drink while using bubble+taunt and pressing cancelaura at the same time...
    May I suggest putting in a timer in Bigwigs or DBM that show you when it's safe to take a sip?

  7. #427
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arziko View Post
    It's only hard when you try to drink while using bubble+taunt and pressing cancelaura at the same time...
    May I suggest putting in a timer in Bigwigs or DBM that show you when it's safe to take a sip?
    if i only used those addons or macros
    heck i even have to find that damn bubble icon buff to right click off
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  8. #428
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    /cancelaura Divine Shield
    /cancelaura Hand of Protection

    one macro. at least this you should do. you have like 50 or I dont know how much macro slots available, so you better start with at least that one.

  9. #429
    Thanks guys - that simple fix of taunting - then dropping stacks fixed it entirely. No one got melee'd last night except me.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    if i only used those addons or macros
    heck i even have to find that damn bubble icon buff to right click off
    I used to do that, til I clicked off a flask once back in BC or LK or something.

    Then I did...

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    /cancelaura Divine Shield
    /cancelaura Hand of Protection

    one macro. at least this you should do. you have like 50 or I dont know how much macro slots available, so you better start with at least that one.
    Also recommend for BoP too.

    I HAVE lost arena matches with this, though, as I spammed my keybind to get bubble up and it immediately faded I just told my partner that the spriest was SUPER-fast on the mass dispel. Shhhh!

    Update on stacks: we did our first pulls on Durumu HC last night, and I ran the debuff up to 8 just to test the waters. Still VERY doable on HC to go that high, although I found no real benefit to it vengeance-wise. And sadly, doing so actually knocked me down in healing (due to less self-heals via SOI), so 6 is probably still recommended. If you REALLY want to cheese damage, you can hold the bleed from 5 to 6 stacks with HoPur, then bubble it off and have massive AP.

    Question though: The fight seems really easy, and if we didn't have 4 ppl MIA this week we'd have likely killed it last night or on Sunday. But, we had to swap to normal to clear I did notice though, that if I topped off with the debuff, half the time it would not drop the bleed. Is there a minimum amount of time to be topped in heroic? In normal it seemed that as long as you topped your bar, even for a second, it would fall. I didn't THINK it is different, but it was annoying last night. Perhaps latency?
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-04-26 at 01:59 PM.
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  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I used to do that, til I clicked off a flask once back in BC or LK or something.

    Then I did...



    Also recommend for BoP too.

    I HAVE lost arena matches with this, though, as I spammed my keybind to get bubble up and it immediately faded I just told my partner that the spriest was SUPER-fast on the mass dispel. Shhhh!
    I have two Bubble buttons. One with hotkey text in the icon is my cast/cancel button and one without (normal bubble button).
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  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I have two Bubble buttons. One with hotkey text in the icon is my cast/cancel button and one without (normal bubble button).
    Yep, I had that (and now just use a shift modifier to save keybinds). But either is a good suggestion for anyone with spam-happy fingers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  13. #433
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I'm a 10man "Progression" Raidleader and Tank. We're currently at 2/13 HC (didn't really progress much the last 3 weeks due to roster issues :-(, should be at 4/13...).
    I usually play Blood DK (armory link for reference/progress) but I'm going to reroll to Prot Pala for this Tier.

    Reason behind ist is, I believe Monk (our 2nd Tank) + Prot Paladin is the strongest tank composition atm. in terms of raw dps and raid healing.
    We don't have another Paladin in our lineup, so that alone is a good reason I guess.

    Armory Link:

    Pala: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...m%C3%BB/simple
    DK: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/gorgonnash/Riemu/

    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:

    Divine Protection Glyph instead of Hotr, keep forgetting to change it..

    Worldoflogs Link:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13158&e=13667
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1374&e=1820
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

    Questions, concerns, expectations:

    I'm pretty new to the Prot Paladin. I've only been 90 for about 2 weeks now. I've read all the guides out there and viewed many armories of progression 10 man Paladins.
    Still trying to tweek my gear so I can roll him into our normal ToT clears. Couple of things I have noticed or that are not clear to me yet:

    - They all seem to use the DPS Meta Legendary Gem instead of the Tank one.
    - They all gem exlusivly for 320 Haste, ignoring all socket bonuses that don't reward haste
    --> Those 2 things generally a good thing to aim for when progression tanking? Or should you try to get socket bonuses like parry if you can?

    - I find myself hardly using WoG. I only use WoG in like serious emergency situation to heal me back up. Sometimes I have a 5 Bastion stack for a minute or sth like that.
    Is that ok or is that rather bad? I prefer using my HP on SotR for DPS and Mitigation. I only use WoG when I'm like down to 40% or sth like that and didn't receive any heal for 1-2 secs or when I'm about to die otherwise.
    (Only on melee bosses ofc - bosses like lei-shi hc or sth like that, SoTR becomes useless aside from dps during bosstanking)

    - The 2p T15? Set Bonus that rewards bonus block% - does that change your playstyle? Do you want to keep up that bonus block and use WoG accordingly? Or will SotR still be better? Whats the desired playstyle around that?

    - Most of the Progression Paladins are taking Holy Prism instead of Lights Hammer (preferred in most guides).
    Why is that? I assume they take it for the extra raidhealing, rather than the damage? How does that change your playstyle? I guess its pretty hard to heal the raid with it on non-stackable bosses?


    Thanks for your help guys!

    Greets

    Riemu
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-04-29 at 09:32 AM. Reason: typos..

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Hi,

    I'm a 10man "Progression" Raidleader and Tank. We're currently at 2/13 HC (didn't really progress much the last 3 weeks due to roster issues :-(, should be at 4/13...).
    I usually play Blood DK (armory link for reference/progress) but I'm going to reroll to Prot Pala for this Tier.

    Reason behind ist is, I believe Monk (our 2nd Tank) + Prot Paladin is the strongest tank composition atm. in terms of raw dps and raid healing.
    We don't have another Paladin in our lineup, so that alone is a good reason I guess.

    Armory Link:

    Pala: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...m%C3%BB/simple
    DK: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/gorgonnash/Riemu/

    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:

    Divine Protection Glyph instead of Hotr, keep forgetting to change it..

    Worldoflogs Link:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13158&e=13667
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1374&e=1820
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

    Questions, concerns, expectations:

    I'm pretty new to the Prot Paladin. I've only been 90 for about 2 weeks now. I've read all the guides out there and viewed many armories of progression 10 man Paladins.
    Still trying to tweek my gear so I can roll him into our normal ToT clears. Couple of things I have noticed or that are not clear to me yet:

    - They all seem to use the DPS Meta Legendary Gem instead of the Tank one.
    - They all gem exlusivly for 320 Haste, ignoring all socket bonuses that don't reward haste
    --> Those 2 things generally a good thing to aim for when progression tanking? Or should you try to get socket bonuses like parry if you can?

    - I find myself hardly using WoG. I only use WoG in like serious emergency situation to heal me back up. Sometimes I have a 5 Bastion stack for a minute or sth like that.
    Is that ok or is that rather bad? I prefer using my HP on SotR for DPS and Mitigation. I only use WoG when I'm like down to 40% or sth like that and didn't receive any heal for 1-2 secs or when I'm about to die otherwise.
    (Only on melee bosses ofc - bosses like lei-shi hc or sth like that, SoTR becomes useless aside from dps during bosstanking)

    - The 2p T15? Set Bonus that rewards bonus block% - does that change your playstyle? Do you want to keep up that bonus block and use WoG accordingly? Or will SotR still be better? Whats the desired playstyle around that?

    - Most of the Progression Paladins are taking Holy Prism instead of Lights Hammer (preferred in most guides).
    Why is that? I assume they take it for the extra raidhealing, rather than the damage? How does that change your playstyle? I guess its pretty hard to heal the raid with it on non-stackable bosses?


    Thanks for your help guys!

    Greets

    Riemu
    1.) Meta: The majority of the Prots in here will argue, that the DPS Meta brings more to the table. They don't like the rnd procc of it and argue that they survived beforehand without the meta so the will survive now with even more gear without it tooand the DPS meta increases your DPS by around 10%. So both sides have a point, just choose what your raid needs more. I personally think you should choose the tank meta first and swap later with better gear.

    2.) Gemming: If you are playing your Prot with the haste strat, you try to stack as much haste as possible. Ignoring socket-bonuses like 60 parry or dodge is okay, because these stats are just shit for us. But I think no Prot will ignore str bonuses just for the haste. So yeah, gemming yellow: haste, blue: haste+stam or hit+haste, red: hit+exp or exp+stam or haste+exp is the way to go IMO.

    3.) WOG: Using your HoPo for Sotr is the way to go. WoG is just an emergency heal to keep yourself alive and the bastion stacks just helps even more with that.

    4.) 2pcT15: If you play with the haste build you try to get the head and shoulders of the prot-set because they just have the better stats. You won't try to keep the setbonus up because sotr will stay stronger but the bonus just buffs your WoG emergency heal even more because you have 40% more block over 15 sec. I find myself using the setbonus while tanking adds in fight like horridon or the bats of tortos. I think the setbonus rly shines in this situations.

    5.) Holy Prism: Holy Prism used correctly heals for a good amount of health with high vengeance so you can pop it after some mediocre raid dmg. Other than that you can also use it build up some range aggro or spread it as an aoe attack. I think it's just more versatile than lights hammer, because (I play 10m) there aren't so much fights where there are enough people stacked to use lights hammer to it's full potential. I think Jin'rokh storm phase and megaera rampage are good situations to use lights hammer over holy prism.

    Hope I could help you a bit even if my english isn't that good.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Hi,

    Stuff

    Riemu
    1 - DPS meta is far and away the best investment you can make for 10man as a prot pal. On any given fight, it accounts for 10-12% of my overall damage; this is essentially a passive 10% damage at the cost of 320Stam/2%armor from the traditional meta. I'll take that all day, every day.

    2 - Do NOT go 320 haste blindly. Nearly every socket bonus is useful assuming you're using "DPS" gear with haste/mastery/expertise on it like you should be; if you have to pick up/use tank gear, you can ignore socket bonuses for dodge/parry, but stam is usually still worthwhile. Due to our high needs for expertise and hit caps, hybrid gems like Haste/exp, haste/hit or haste/stam can (and should) be used if that's how you want to play.

    3 - Sitting on 5x BOG is fine. WOG is not (and will not) be part of your rotation. Think of WOG like Rune Tap (but useful, as a 5x stack can easily heal for 400-600k); you don't just spam rune tap, it's there when you need it as an oh-shit button. WOG is just rune tap on roids. The only thing we're really weak at compared to other tanks is high-magic fights (like Lei Shi as you mentioned), whereby I usually use ShotR 1-2x b/w WOGs to get some more punch to them.

    4 - A lot of tanks (myself included) do not use any t15 tier, as the stats are pretty lackluster. If you DO want to use tier, helm and shoulders are where it's at. Rest are just poorly itemized, and youre far better off using off-set DPS items like Durumu (or Horridon) pants, Primordius gloves, Ret or JinRohk chest, Tortos shoulders, etc. Anyhow, the 2pc is not designed to be used rotationaally; the ShotR uptime lost by doing so is almost always a net survival downgrade over the block (unless youre tanking a ton of adds, like Tortos bats). Basically, the 2pc is just a "consolation prize" when you have to use WOG as an oh-shit button.

    5 - LH is great, and used on more than a few fights (Council HC, Megaera HC this tier), but there are a few things. LH (and ES) are both NOT on spell GCD, meaning that they do not have reduced global. May not seem like a big deal, but going from a 1.1 sec to 1.5 sec GCD raelly can mess with your rythym. LH is also stationary, and can easily be wasted if not used properly. It's healing is slow and steady, which is OK, but HPris is a nuke. HPris will (almost) always heal you, as well as smart heal the lowest party members. It hits (and heals) HARD. On IQ HC, I see upwards of 300k shots every 20sec, along with a commensurate 700-900k heal on the raid. On a fight like Megaera HC where everyone stacks for rampage, LH can pull ahead on heals (and damage), but most fights HPris is superior. You WILL change taletns a lot (esp movement talents, t90, t60 and t75). It's one of the nice things about the class; adaptability.

    Other notes: use glyphs wisely. This tier, I almost ALWAYS use Battle Healer and Alab Shield, with the 3rd slot being either Focus Shield for single target fights (or magic heavy fights), DivProt (for physical heavy fights) or Holy Wrath (great on Lei Shen for ball lightnings!). Our glyphs are great and situational (as are talents), you should be adjusting accordingly and often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  16. #436
    To be honest, I just can't understand how is this 10% more dmg better than 20% physical reduction for fights like Iron Qon, Tortos and many more.
    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Quanee/simple
    http://twitch.tv/quanee

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  17. #437
    10% more damage is not random. 20% physical damage reduction is.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    10% more damage is not random. 20% physical damage reduction is.
    That, and the fact that a tank taking a bit more damage over-all isn't going to hold you up like doing 15-20k less dps can.
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    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  19. #439
    Random 20% physical damage reduction would really only be beneficial if it allowed to to shave a healer off and gain more than the 10% dps that the dps meta gives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Quanee View Post
    To be honest, I just can't understand how is this 10% more dmg better than 20% physical reduction for fights like Iron Qon, Tortos and many more.
    If you're dying and wiping the group without that 20% random physical mitigation, then of course you should not use the DPS meta.

    However, if that is the case, you have MUCH bigger issues than which meta to pick. Physical damage reduction is our forte already, and we should have NO problem survivng anything (esp large, telegraphed attacks) that actually are threatening. So using the "tank" meta will only intermittently and unreliably shave a few etra % off of an already highly mitigated attack.

    Or you could have 10-15% more damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

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