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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Holy Avenger is good for "snap" threat. Use that. Prism is sick on Elegon but you're already using that.
    You're Stamina stacking - go for Haste. Haste is best overall for TPS/HPS/DPS.
    How much stamina should I sacrifice for haste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Are you having problems with the first protector or all protectors? If you are the off tank you will likely not have any vengeance when the first protector spawns. Simple fix to that is to soak the first 2 breaths with the other tank and use some minor cd.
    Warrior gets the first, I get the second.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenom986 View Post
    How much stamina should I sacrifice for haste?
    I run with only the stamina from my gear and having no problem at all. 0 stam gems, 0 stam trinkets, even using haste+armor elixirs instead of stamina flask. sometimes strength flask.

    Really do not know what tips to give you, I have never had any issues on the protectors. Was going to link to my VoD from our last elegon hc kill but for some reason my stream didn't record it so can't do that.

    You could try saving up 5 HoPo for when the protector spawn so you can use 2 quick SotR on it for more threat.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I run with only the stamina from my gear and having no problem at all. 0 stam gems, 0 stam trinkets, even using haste+armor elixirs instead of stamina flask. sometimes strength flask.
    Is it too much for me to ask if I could have a look at your armory as a guide?

  4. #164
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenom986 View Post
    How much stamina should I sacrifice for haste?

    You really don't need stamina if I'm honest. Stamina is becoming more and more redundant for Paladin tanks as we can just easily heal ourselves back to full with one WoG.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Phenom986 View Post
    Is it too much for me to ask if I could have a look at your armory as a guide?
    I wouldn't look at my armory for a serious guide since I do alot of "troll" builds. I only raid for fun.

    I have gone against the main stream of paladins and how not taken expertise hard cap. But 99% of prot palas go for expertise hard cap so you probably want that aswell.

    Basically, I have done a lot of choices against the 'standard', but I have my reasons for it, though explaining them would be overcomplicating it to much.

    Basics: Reforge as much dodge and parry, and crit if you have it, as you can into hit/expertise/haste. If the item does not have crit/parry/dodge reforge mastery into hit/exp/haste.

    Check if the socket bonuses are good. Try to follow socket bonuses using haste, haste/exp, haste/hit, hit/exp or exp gems.
    How many gems you use of each depends on your caps. Make sure to get the expertise caps.

    For trinkets, use the Ghost Iron Dragonling with 600 hit, exp haste + 1 other trinket you like.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #166
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    For trinkets, use the Ghost Iron Dragonling with 600 hit, exp haste + 1 other trinket you like.
    You sure do love that trinket Firefly

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    You sure do love that trinket Firefly
    Well, it is simply the best. I love how so many prot paladins don't use it because it is 450 ilvl and blue.

    You get 1800 passive secondary stat. No other trinket comes close to that.

    Feels like a repsonsibility to educate about that since that is the most common mistake prot paladins do.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, it is simply the best. I love how so many prot paladins don't use it because it is 450 ilvl and blue.

    You get 1800 passive secondary stat. No other trinket comes close to that.

    Feels like a repsonsibility to educate about that since that is the most common mistake prot paladins do.
    I agree it is amazing. I use Darkmasters for the burst. 5k odd strength, 3k haste from Lifeblood and Holy Avenger is perfect for snap threat.

  9. #169
    Okay Phenom. So just took a quick look at your armory. One thing that makes me confused is the fact that you do not use any stamina trinket but you use stamina gems.

    If you want stamina, it is smarter to use stamina trinket and secondary stat gems, not the other way around. There is just more stamina and less secondary on trinkets and vice versa.

    My tip for you would be to drop all those stamina gems and gem for socket bonuses picking up haste/hit/exp so you still maintain hit and exp caps. Drop both of your trinkets. Get Ghost Iron Dragonling and depending on how you feel like, get either a stamina trinket or Lei-Shin from WotE.

    You really do have alot of dodge and parry gear. You should try to get some more retribution gear. If you are using coins for extra rolls, remember that you can respecc to retri after a boss dies before rolling to get retri loot from the coins.




    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 02:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    I agree it is amazing. I use Darkmasters for the burst. 5k odd strength, 3k haste from Lifeblood and Holy Avenger is perfect for snap threat.
    Well, in case you like to use darkmaster, I see on your armory that you use Lei-Shin. Ghost Iron Dragonling is better than Lei-Shin hands down, so you could replace that one instead.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-01-25 at 01:57 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, in case you like to use darkmaster, I see on your armory that you use Lei-Shin. Ghost Iron Dragonling is better than Lei-Shin hands down, so you could replace that one instead.
    I'm probably going to replace Darkmaster for Dragonling. Keep it though as PuG leaders are normally ignorant and are all like "uhmuhguh u hav 450 kiek"

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    I'm probably going to replace Darkmaster for Dragonling. Keep it though as PuG leaders are normally ignorant and are all like "uhmuhguh u hav 450 kiek"
    Haha, yeah. I used to have that in Cata aswell. In T11, had two 372 stamina trinkets on my as standard, but whenever raiding they got replaced by a blue 346 and a 359 Pugs can be silly
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, it is simply the best. I love how so many prot paladins don't use it because it is 450 ilvl and blue.
    I like it too. I only wish there's an option to remove the dragonling. Damn thing aggro stuffs that is 40 yd away. I keep 3 trinkets - dragonling for default, stamina trinket (because garalon), and a dps trinket (darkmist vortex).

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  13. #173
    High Overlord Jayroyma's Avatar
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    Armory Link: Royma
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Using Clemency / HoPurity depending on fight and thinking about changing Lights Hammer -->> Holy Prism
    Worldoflogs Link: sadly none (Hopefully I will be able to link some in 2-3 days)
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Basicly what would YOU do to my gear. Raiding 10m MSV 6/6N, HoF 3/6N, TES 0/4N
    Main: Royma
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  14. #174
    Epic! rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayroyma View Post
    Armory Link: Royma
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Using Clemency / HoPurity depending on fight and thinking about changing Lights Hammer -->> Holy Prism
    Worldoflogs Link: sadly none (Hopefully I will be able to link some in 2-3 days)
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Basicly what would YOU do to my gear. Raiding 10m MSV 6/6N, HoF 3/6N, TES 0/4N
    Just a v quick look but why gem for so much stamina? for the stuff you're doing not really needed - better for blue sockets to go hit/haste, yellow pure haste, red pure expertise imo. You're a tad over hit and quite a lot over expertise caps, better reforging can get you a bit more "useful" stats.

    also haste enchant for boots and expertise/haste for gloves are better enchants imo.

    Id keep lights hammer also - my prefered T6
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2013-01-28 at 12:57 PM.
    Keeping it url since 1864.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    I like it too. I only wish there's an option to remove the dragonling. Damn thing aggro stuffs that is 40 yd away. I keep 3 trinkets - dragonling for default, stamina trinket (because garalon), and a dps trinket (darkmist vortex).
    Why bother with Stamina for Garalon, he does hardly any damage to the tanks at all. Even on 25man I'm hardly ever above 60k AP total.
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  16. #176
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayroyma View Post
    Armory Link: Royma
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Using Clemency / HoPurity depending on fight and thinking about changing Lights Hammer -->> Holy Prism
    Worldoflogs Link: sadly none (Hopefully I will be able to link some in 2-3 days)
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Basicly what would YOU do to my gear. Raiding 10m MSV 6/6N, HoF 3/6N, TES 0/4N
    Just having a quick look through your gear and basically:

    You don't need that much Stamina, infact, you don't need Stamina at all. Never gem for Stamina, if you need the extra HP, get Stamina trinkets, you're sacrificing haste for it.

    I would ditch that Mastery cogwheel and replace it with a hit one so you can get more Haste.

    Glyphs look okay, Holy Wrath isn't that good, Final Wrath is a lot better. (200k damage ~50%)

    Ditch that Brawlers Statue, it's gash. Try replace it with Lei Shin's Final Orders, that shit be cray.

    Holy Prism has gotten better. Good for AoE fights and it's a smart heal.

  17. #177
    High Overlord Jayroyma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Just having a quick look through your gear and basically:

    You don't need that much Stamina, infact, you don't need Stamina at all. Never gem for Stamina, if you need the extra HP, get Stamina trinkets, you're sacrificing haste for it.

    I would ditch that Mastery cogwheel and replace it with a hit one so you can get more Haste.

    Glyphs look okay, Holy Wrath isn't that good, Final Wrath is a lot better. (200k damage ~50%)

    Ditch that Brawlers Statue, it's gash. Try replace it with Lei Shin's Final Orders, that shit be cray.

    Holy Prism has gotten better. Good for AoE fights and it's a smart heal.
    Sadly Lei Shin's have yet to drop for me (and can't get in in LFR because I'm Holy OS)

    Raid buffed (with your suggestions)

    Str : 11083
    Sta : 30667
    Mastery : 18.36%
    Hit : 7.54%
    Exp : 15.17%
    Haste : 26.56% (melee cant see spell atm as I'm @ work)
    Health : 575737
    Main: Royma
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  18. #178
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayroyma View Post
    Sadly Lei Shin's have yet to drop for me (and can't get in in LFR because I'm Holy OS)
    Be sneaky and queue as a DPS, but heal. No one will notice. Trust me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jayroyma View Post
    Str : 11083
    Sta : 30667
    Mastery : 18.36%
    Hit : 7.54%
    Exp : 15.17%
    Haste : 26.56% (melee cant see spell atm as I'm @ work)
    Health : 575737
    Sounds pretty good to me. Still quite a lot of HP though. Are you sure you removed all Stamina gems?

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayroyma View Post
    Armory Link: Royma
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Using Clemency / HoPurity depending on fight and thinking about changing Lights Hammer -->> Holy Prism
    Worldoflogs Link: sadly none (Hopefully I will be able to link some in 2-3 days)
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Basicly what would YOU do to my gear. Raiding 10m MSV 6/6N, HoF 3/6N, TES 0/4N
    First of, do not change Lights Hammer to Holy Prism, HP is a big nono for prot paladins atm. Execution Sentence is good for some fights, ligths hammer others.

    As people above have said. Replace mastery cog with hit cog, remove any stamina gem.

    Yellow socket: Haste / Haste Exp
    Red Socket: Haste Exp / Exp
    Blue Socket: Haste Hit

    Then you will need to reforge again since you will be alot over hit cap, but this will allow you to reforge into more haste.

    What bothers me the most about your gear is your Brawler Statue trinket.
    If you do not have access to any other trinkets currently, there are some easy to get trinkets for you that is ALOT better.

    Darkmaster
    From Scholo HC

    If you have bad luck in HCs, there are some great trinkets in quests aswell.

    Stinger
    Comes from a quest and it is bloody great. I was using it until I got raid trinkets. The proc is awesome on it.
    I can't remember which quest but think it is in Dread Wastes.

    There are alot of other trinkets, those were just 2 examples. Bottom line, replace that brawler trinket, it is horrible.

    Not sure if you are in raid glyphs, but Holy Wrath glyph really does nothing except on adds on elegon.

    Get haste enchants on your gloves.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #180
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    First of, do not change Lights Hammer to Holy Prism, HP is a big nono for prot paladins atm. Execution Sentence is good for some fights, ligths hammer others.
    Oh no Firefly, we actually have to disagree on something for once.
    I've been using Holy Prism lately and it is really, really useful. Try it out. Our battle healer glyph works hand in hand with the smart heal. And if you're going to heal yourself, the damage hits 5 targets, which is good for our AoE.

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