[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[trystero]

I would be really careful with this. you take something between 15 and 30 secs to get a good 5 BoG 3HP EF running. 30secs in a 5 minute fight is a steady 10% alone.
and then, eternal flame is pretty reactive, other than sacred shield, which is proactive. why cast eternal flame, when you get no damage? resulting in a low AP value, resulting in a small hot, which is wasted. and then, when you are at a high damage phase, you might risk not having 5 BoG for it. sooo... I gladly reduce my EF uptime in order to have it ready when there actually is high damage intake.

considering the rest of what he did, I doubt that this was his intention, but I just wanted to point it out. using EF just for the sake of having a high uptime of it is bad gameplay imho.

Very true. I won't even cast EF (with 5 stacks) until I begin to take noticeable damage. Otherwise, I waste the value of EF's massive direct heal.

[Nobleshield]

So quick thing, looking at my gear and reforges and whatnot. For most normal mode tanking, still don't gem or whatever for Stamina, right? I've been going Haste all the way but it seems like my health is pretty low, like unbuffed I'm at 645k. I know the updated AMR still recommends SOME Stamina, but not as much as before (For instance it recommends blue gems using Haste/Stam and Stam for the JC-only gems), but I haven't trusted AMR in a while and prefer to go for more Haste when appropriate. Not sure if that strategy has changed or not; I'm currently well over Hit cap even with reforging (Ji-kun trinket) so I could probably get away with replacing Hit/Haste with Haste/Stam, but I'd feel weird replacing +480 Haste gems with +480 Stam gems.

[rhandric]

So quick thing, looking at my gear and reforges and whatnot. For most normal mode tanking, still don't gem or whatever for Stamina, right? I've been going Haste all the way but it seems like my health is pretty low, like unbuffed I'm at 645k. I know the updated AMR still recommends SOME Stamina, but not as much as before (For instance it recommends blue gems using Haste/Stam and Stam for the JC-only gems), but I haven't trusted AMR in a while and prefer to go for more Haste when appropriate. Not sure if that strategy has changed or not; I'm currently well over Hit cap even with reforging (Ji-kun trinket) so I could probably get away with replacing Hit/Haste with Haste/Stam, but I'd feel weird replacing +480 Haste gems with +480 Stam gems.

Generally, gem stam if you die in less than ~6 seconds (4 swings), or if you're not surviving specials even with proper cd usage (either due to pre- or post-special melees, since a properly cd'd attack won't kill you unless you're naked). Otherwise, gem haste. You can tell AMR to not gem stam by going to edit weights -> no stamina.

[Nobleshield]

Generally, gem stam if you die in less than ~6 seconds (4 swings), or if you're not surviving specials even with proper cd usage (either due to pre- or post-special melees, since a properly cd'd attack won't kill you unless you're naked). Otherwise, gem haste. You can tell AMR to not gem stam by going to edit weights -> no stamina.

Yeah, I normally set my own weights; I wanted to check out their "revised" stat weights that put less priority on Stam for normal-mode raiders, and it still suggested some Stam pieces, but not a ton.

[ElChig]

Generally, gem stam if you die in less than ~6 seconds (4 swings), or if you're not surviving specials even with proper cd usage (either due to pre- or post-special melees, since a properly cd'd attack won't kill you unless you're naked). Otherwise, gem haste. You can tell AMR to not gem stam by going to edit weights -> no stamina.

Does this apply to garrosh too? I feel like he kill me in less than 6 sec even going full stam.

[Nillo]

Does this apply to garrosh too? I feel like he kill me in less than 6 sec even going full stam.

Nope but if your gear level is low you might want to equip a stam trinket and definitely use the tank cloak on him.

[celinamuna]

Does this apply to garrosh too? I feel like he kill me in less than 6 sec even going full stam.

There's a few fight where the 6 sec rule doesn't apply (Garrosh, possibly H protectors, H jugger, def more ahead) on those fights it's all about CD management.

[Cheekun]

So i have as simple question that i've been kicking around since the start of SoO. I've been picking up items that don't particularly have haste as a primary stat (generally mastery and expertise, etc). If i'm upgrading from 530 item level I should probably take the upgrade strictly for the stam, str, and greater amount of less favorable stats (namely expertise, which is still nice but not amazing). Correct?

This is with the assumption that i still want to grab as much haste as possible from gear down the road, grabbing expertise now to free up haste on other piecies of gear.

Im mostly trying to get bulky enough to start heroic modes, even if it means having slightly less haste overall. (I dropped like 3% roughly so far from 41%). Should i continue forward with this mindset being careful in the future, or just pass gear to my DK tank partner (Who is starting to feel guilty for all the gear i've turned my nose up at).

[Nillo]

We have already addressed those gearing questions in some of the most recent posts in the sticky !:
Short version is if you're upgrading a whole tier (13+ ilvl) then the stats don't matter.

[Nobleshield]

Hey so I'm going over my logs from last night, and I can't help but think my priority is still a bit off, but I can't 100% remember the CS:J ratios to know if I'm hitting one more frequently than the other, but Judgment is always more frequently used than CS. I also still can't feel a bit squishy being under 700k even buffed (without stam flask though, as I've been told to pretty much run with Strength flask instead) but I'm not noticing any real issues with healers not being able to keep me up.

Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gt2b0hp4xufi5i7d/

[rhandric]

Noble: Unless you're using Sanctified Wrath, the CS:J ratio should be 3:2 (since, in every cycle [CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X) you get 3 CSs and 2 Js).

Also: If you feel squishy, run with either stam flask (if you're cheap). If you're not cheap, run with haste/armor elixirs (whether or not you feel squishy).

[Deleted]

I checked your Sha of Pride kill (best fight out of the 4 you linked to check), your J:CS ratio was 0.7:1, which is pretty much what is expected. It was a bit higher on J than "optimal" for HoPo regeneration. But nothing mindboggling. If you J:CS ratio is above 0.85:1 I would get concerned, unless you are using SW or are intentionally using J>CS sometimes for DPS increase. Your ratio was completely fine if hopo generation is what you were aiming for.

I personally prefer haste and armor elixir, atleast until I get haste capped. Feels like a more allround gain as the armor gives a non-negliable physical damage reduction compared to the dps difference between str flask and haste elixir (haste elixir could even be better for dps), + haste elixir is beter defensiviely than str flask is. So I really feel like elixirs>str flask.

[Nillo]

o0 I'm generally between .75 (that's with 100% uptime on the boss) and .9 (out of melee range, or well just using SW for Norushen) J:CS


And yeah Str flask is kind of dumb especially when some bosses in SoO can give you 150k+ vengeance even on normal. Double elixir has been the best choice for str tanks since cata and will probably stay that way.


P.S.: Finally haste capped even with the tank cloak equipped, yay!

[Deleted]

o0 I'm generally between .75 (that's with 100% uptime on the boss) and .9 (out of melee range, or well just using SW for Norushen) J:CS


And yeah Str flask is kind of dumb especially when some bosses in SoO can give you 150k+ vengeance even on normal. Double elixir has been the best choice for str tanks since cata and will probably stay that way.


P.S.: Finally haste capped even with the tank cloak equipped, yay!

str flask was better on some fights like Gara'Jal in T14, but yeah, 99% of fights haste elixir > str flask for dps.

I often usually have .75 aswell with 100% uptime on boss as I often change my rotation priority up in the middle of boss fights. I think aiming for a "perfect" 0.66 is nothing a heroic raiding tank should do since doing so is gimping your throughput. 0.66 may be perfect in theory but it sure not is in practice. Its a bit like the 100% SS uptime thing going around, aiming for 100% uptime was something new tanks should aim for a practice, but if you knew the fights, when the damage happened and when you would have vengeance, 60-80% uptime was better on a lot of fights, since usually on about 40% of the fight, SS did 100% overhealing, which meant that even spending a global reapplying it then was not worth it. In the same way the 0.66 is the best for HoPo regeneration, but there will be points in a fight where you do not need HoPo regeneration, in which case you should be seeing a higher ratio.

GZ on haste cap. I am watching my haste drop atm due to replacing T15 haste items with T16 "tank" items QQ

[Nobleshield]

I'll have to remember that about the haste elixir. I normally prefer flasks because I'm lazy and cheap and don't like having to reapply things after wipes, especially when they tend to be frequent

[Promdates]

I'll have to remember that about the haste elixir. I normally prefer flasks because I'm lazy and cheap and don't like having to reapply things after wipes, especially when they tend to be frequent

I went through so many elixirs for heroic Animus and Lei Shen attempts. Thankfully we always keep fully stocked bank tabs full of herbs and flasks/elixirs/pots.

[Deleted]

I'll have to remember that about the haste elixir. I normally prefer flasks because I'm lazy and cheap and don't like having to reapply things after wipes, especially when they tend to be frequent

I used to be like that but I got so used to elixirs in Cataclysm so it was just natural for me to keep using them in MoP.

[Josher]

Getting absolutely trucked tonight on regular mode Garrosh. Would post logs but it doesn't wanna let me post links til I have a few more posts under my belt... Anyway around this?

[Deleted]

Getting absolutely trucked tonight on regular mode Garrosh. Would post logs but it doesn't wanna let me post links til I have a few more posts under my belt... Anyway around this?

A little more details could be lovely.

What are you tankin?
What is killing you?
Character name and realm for armory and logs?

[Josher]

A little more details could be lovely.

What are you tankin?
What is killing you?
Character name and realm for armory and logs?

The one's that were most notable were when Garrosh would just swing 3 times in P2 and I'd fall over. Sometimes in P1 when I had the boss, I would get aggro on some of the adds which did lead to some issues here and the one's that bothered me most were the deaths in P2 while just tanking Garrosh. Toon is Galinadria on US-Khadgar.