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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyphran View Post
    Elesia's Miracle looks odd.

    Gain three levels, get the effects permanently and the item disappears <.< >.>
    It's basically a way of getting that slot back as you transition to late game. Where the stats on EM really drop off relative to the slot.

    I like the change. I was often frustrated with EM as an item.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Simply trying to understand the thought process in choosing that item when Randuin's, Ionic Spark or Zekes are available. Kage's Lucky Pick even has efficient stat conversion to Shen.

    It's a valid follow up question. Not reason for defensiveness.
    I build those except for Zekes.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Yes I see your point, build Philo Stone into Shurelias which has health, health regen, cdr, and a 1 min speed boost to catch or escape for the whole team is a bad item for Shen just because it has mana regen. 1 bad stat does not make an item bad.

    Can we not sit here and argue about how each other plays Shen? I use Philo/Kage's and HOG on my Shen and you don't. It doesn't matter. I probably build several champions different then you, cause it's my playstyle.
    You mentioned it on a discussion board so yes, people will discuss it. Thing is, there is a big difference between building Shurelyas and building Philo. When you build Shurelyas you build it to use it in teamfights, you build Philo in lane when you need the sustain. Kages+Philo does slow you down regardless of what your playstyle is, your free to build whatever you want but in this case your preffered build simply isn´t optimal.

    On topic: Eleisas miracle seems like a pretty poorly designed item. I really don´t see why you´d ever build it on support instead of just building philo. The actual summoner spell CDR is interesting but you´ll rarely run heal on support and CV isn´t used very often, we´ll have to see how the new jungle changes that.

  4. #24
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Yes I see your point, build Philo Stone into Shurelias which has health, health regen, cdr, and a 1 min speed boost to catch or escape for the whole team is a bad item for Shen just because it has mana regen. 1 bad stat does not make an item bad.

    Can we not sit here and argue about how each other plays Shen? I use Philo/Kage's and HOG on my Shen and you don't. It doesn't matter. I probably build several champions different then you, cause it's my playstyle.
    When you go for gold efficiency, the gold spent on that wasted stat could have gotten you another better item sooner. Thats how I see it. There are plenty of better items for health than a Shurelias you could have bought with that gold. The support and/or the jungle should have one as well.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    When you go for gold efficiency, the gold spent on that wasted stat could have gotten you another better item sooner. Thats how I see it. There are plenty of better items for health than a Shurelias you could have bought with that gold. The support and/or the jungle should have one as well.
    Well it doesnt matter. I just decided to quit play LoL anyways.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Well it doesnt matter. I just decided to quit play LoL anyways.
    We will find out how much different the game will be after these item changes, don't get to hasty to quit yet.
    The Runaway. I love my new nickname. Is there a picture of me? Does it look good?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Duronos View Post
    We will find out how much different the game will be after these item changes, don't get to hasty to quit yet.
    That's not why. It's the people. I'm tired of losing 80% of the games I play because people care more about having the most kills then actually winning.

    Game I played today(last straw), my team was pushing up mid, the enemy does down to 1 inhib(respawned) and 1 nexus turret down the mid lane. Side lanes were down to the inhibs as well. I pushed bot inhib, the entire enemy team came for me. I ran from the inhib I almost took out, the enemy followed. Did my team push that mid inhib? No. Did they push the inhib I almost took out? No. They came after the enemy, and we got aced, the enemy pushed us and we lost.

    And I can't count how many games I've lost cause no one knows when to Baron and when to push. Example(I pretty much it always plays out): We ace the enemy, I ping and head to baron(I'm the jungler), but my whole team pushes mid. Pushes up to the inhib where they all die, then 2 of the enemy push our base, as I return to defend, 3 of them go and kill baron, and they push for game while my team is on rez timer.

    I'm tired of being the only one who ever buys wards, then gets yelled at when bot/top lane pushes to the turret and gets ganked. Tired of having to leave the jungle and go into a lane cause that lane wants to start roaming 5 mins in to gank other lanes, cause they aren't getting kills in their lane.
    Last edited by Pandragon; 2012-11-11 at 01:37 AM.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  8. #28
    Give Innervating locket back!

    Talking about the removal of Madred's bloodrazor, do you thik Kog'Maw will still be viable? I mean, he's pretty much underplayed, I haven't seen one in 5-6 months , except in a match I was playing him. Madred's was giving him the AD/AS/that hp removal thingie to increse his damage. But now, what is he going to do to? Is he going to lose his place in the top of AD carries?

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worer View Post
    Give Innervating locket back!

    Talking about the removal of Madred's bloodrazor, do you thik Kog'Maw will still be viable? I mean, he's pretty much underplayed, I haven't seen one in 5-6 months , except in a match I was playing him. Madred's was giving him the AD/AS/that hp removal thingie to increse his damage. But now, what is he going to do to? Is he going to lose his place in the top of AD carries?
    Other than a slight hit to his tank-shredding capabilities with Bloodrazor, he should be in the same place viability-wise. In most cases, you don't end up needing to build Bloodrazor on Kog unless the enemy team consists of say, a Volibear with 6 fully-stacked Warmogs, as the typical PD/IE/LW combo is mainly what he needs. However, with another incoming nerf to flash (longer CD), he'll take a hit being the squishies ranged AD with little escape.

    The upcoming changes to PD (nerfs to AS and movement speed, in exchange getting unit collision ignoring) maybe even more of a hit to Kog, with all of the changes that were mentioned so far.
    Last edited by Thallidomaniac; 2012-11-11 at 07:49 AM.

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    Other than a slight hit to his tank-shredding capabilities with Bloodrazor, he should be in the same place viability-wise. In most cases, you don't end up needing to build Bloodrazor on Kog unless the enemy team consists of say, a Volibear with 6 fully-stacked Warmogs, as the typical PD/IE/LW combo is mainly what he needs. However, with another incoming nerf to flash (longer CD), he'll take a hit being the squishies ranged AD with little escape.

    The upcoming changes to PD (nerfs to AS and movement speed, in exchange getting unit collision ignoring) maybe even more of a hit to Kog, with all of the changes that were mentioned so far.
    Riot mentioned this multiple times that Madreds Bloodrazor actually shreds a tank down slower than a IE+PD combo so it just gives the illusion of a tank shredding item , so it's actually a wasted slot. Also 3400 gold is far too much for an item thats suppose to counter tanks.

    The reason it's worse than IE+PD is because most tanks focus on resistances not hp, so firstly tanks don't have that much hp, secondly since late game they have a lot of resist, the bonus damage from Madreds bloodrazor is almost negligable. I think Xyph said you need about 80% spell pen to make it better than IE+PD

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 11:28 AM ----------

    On the HoG topic, I read the topic quite extensively and I completely agree with what was said.
    @Fencers In the jungle it still has the same snowball effect because you still duel/gank and the hp benefit with gp5 is where the problem came from because there is absolutely no trade off

  11. #31
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worer View Post
    Give Innervating locket back!

    Talking about the removal of Madred's bloodrazor, do you thik Kog'Maw will still be viable? I mean, he's pretty much underplayed, I haven't seen one in 5-6 months , except in a match I was playing him. Madred's was giving him the AD/AS/that hp removal thingie to increse his damage. But now, what is he going to do to? Is he going to lose his place in the top of AD carries?
    Blade of the Ruined king is being added to SR as pretty much the replacement for madred's. It shreds % current health, and also grants more useful stats than madred's did imo. The lifesteal and heal for half the magic damage you do is much greater than a bit of armor and a bit of AS. They have also said they want to make AS on hit builds more effective, so I would be very surprised if they didn't add in some new items for that.

    They've hinted at so much, but released to little T.T

  12. #32
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
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    PD did more for Kog'maw than MBR ever did.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    That's not why. It's the people. I'm tired of losing 80% of the games I play because people care more about having the most kills then actually winning.

    Game I played today(last straw), my team was pushing up mid, the enemy does down to 1 inhib(respawned) and 1 nexus turret down the mid lane. Side lanes were down to the inhibs as well. I pushed bot inhib, the entire enemy team came for me. I ran from the inhib I almost took out, the enemy followed. Did my team push that mid inhib? No. Did they push the inhib I almost took out? No. They came after the enemy, and we got aced, the enemy pushed us and we lost.

    And I can't count how many games I've lost cause no one knows when to Baron and when to push. Example(I pretty much it always plays out): We ace the enemy, I ping and head to baron(I'm the jungler), but my whole team pushes mid. Pushes up to the inhib where they all die, then 2 of the enemy push our base, as I return to defend, 3 of them go and kill baron, and they push for game while my team is on rez timer.

    I'm tired of being the only one who ever buys wards, then gets yelled at when bot/top lane pushes to the turret and gets ganked. Tired of having to leave the jungle and go into a lane cause that lane wants to start roaming 5 mins in to gank other lanes, cause they aren't getting kills in their lane.
    Shit happens in LoL, if you really are considering quitting/having a break then play some SC2 because that's a 1v1 based game and it's all on you there. I understand where you are coming from, trust I do, but not every game is horrible it's just because as human beings we generally see the bad more than the good. Keep playing and if you need a friend to play with pm me.
    The Runaway. I love my new nickname. Is there a picture of me? Does it look good?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Duronos View Post
    Shit happens in LoL, if you really are considering quitting/having a break then play some SC2 because that's a 1v1 based game and it's all on you there. I understand where you are coming from, trust I do, but not every game is horrible it's just because as human beings we generally see the bad more than the good. Keep playing and if you need a friend to play with pm me.
    I don't have SC2 and can't afford it. It's hard to not see the good when 8/10 games I play a night are losses.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  15. #35
    The upgrade on Archangel's Staff seems promising, that shield, combining it with a Hourglass, must be definitely very good. Imagine that on champions like Morgana or Katarina, oh my god.

  16. #36
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I don't have SC2 and can't afford it. It's hard to not see the good when 8/10 games I play a night are losses.
    Then consider the following: In those 10 games, what is the only constant factor?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I don't have SC2 and can't afford it. It's hard to not see the good when 8/10 games I play a night are losses.
    Sometimes it happens that something happens in a game which breaks your confidence, which leads you to playing worse which leads to more loss of confidence. Just take a break, nothing forces you to play everyday or every week.

    I had that before, Back in season 1 I did a solo ranked on Rammus, and I messed up, I ganked badly and made poor judgement calls. I stopped trusting my decisions and that led to more mistakes and I just kept losing. I took a two week break and came back, and everything was normal again. I had forgotten about those mistakes and I just picked up where I left off. Hell I wouldn't be lying if I said I played better after the break

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-11 at 09:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    The upgrade on Archangel's Staff seems promising, that shield, combining it with a Hourglass, must be definitely very good. Imagine that on champions like Morgana or Katarina, oh my god.
    Hmm I might potentially be skeptical on how godly that active will be. I mean it's great to stop burst, but sometimes the health from RoA or Rylais might actually give more surv. I really don't know if it will be a trade-off. You get a shield instead of health/resists which is one of the current big drawbacks of Archangels

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Elial View Post
    Hmm I might potentially be skeptical on how godly that active will be. I mean it's great to stop burst, but sometimes the health from RoA or Rylais might actually give more surv. I really don't know if it will be a trade-off. You get a shield instead of health/resists which is one of the current big drawbacks of Archangels
    Well, if this item will be viable on Singed, then I'd say I would gladly give up on the MR to get this shield and the huge amounts of mana.

    Also, now that I think of it, getting this just for the shield proc might not be a good idea, especially on champions like Morgana that don't have mana problems, not exactly, also, I just realized Kata has no mana, so nvm that, lol.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Worer View Post
    Give Innervating locket back!

    Talking about the removal of Madred's bloodrazor, do you thik Kog'Maw will still be viable? I mean, he's pretty much underplayed, I haven't seen one in 5-6 months , except in a match I was playing him. Madred's was giving him the AD/AS/that hp removal thingie to increse his damage. But now, what is he going to do to? Is he going to lose his place in the top of AD carries?
    Kog is not a top ADC. Madred's is also a bad item on him.

  20. #40
    Elemental Lord Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figoment View Post
    Kog is not a top ADC.
    Wait... w0t?

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