View Poll Results: Whose to blame for the Horde's current state?

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  • Thrall - Passing leadership to an inexperied Orc

    60 34.68%
  • Thrall - (For a different reason)

    17 9.83%
  • Garrosh

    83 47.98%
  • Other (Neither Thrall, or Garrosh, or perhaps both of the them!)

    13 7.51%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Sorry? WHAT? At no point the whole time Garrosh as been around he has never summoned demons. The ones in jade forest were forsaken thry were lead by a forsaken leader.
    It's in the Tides of War novel. Garrosh used demons to steal the focusing iris from the blue dragonflight.
    "Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken. Always and forever!"

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    It's in the Tides of War novel. Garrosh used demons to steal the focusing iris from the blue dragonflight.
    He also command at the end of the novel, that the horde will use any means necessary to defeat the alliance, including forcing children to serve the hordes armies, and to use demons at he commands.

    Honestly, you Garrosh fanboys, do you even know the lore when you take the characters into account, like this thread?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    He was with Garrosh during the Northrend campaign he had him around quite often and he saw how Garrosh behaved, he knew him. That is the main reason I blame Thrall. Garrosh was never meant to be Warchief material, a general of course, but someone always had to reign him in, the same reason Sylvanas can never become warchief you would have the same fiasco.

    Not to mention he was warned not to appoint him, even as acting warchief, but he did not listen and now the world pays the price.
    I know your fishing for a reason to demonize Thrall, but its a pure case of morality when it comes down to it.

    You think Thrall is to blame for choosing Garrosh? He choose him in good faith, he didn't know he would be as bad as he is, or commit the crimes he has done.

    Thrall committed himself to saving azeroth from destruction, something a hero does so you can't demonize him for his actions there.

    Was it a mistake to trust Garrosh as he did? Yes, but he wasn't to know, and by the time it was clear the kind of monster Garrosh was it was to late to change it.


    And Here the moost ironic twist to all this.

    All you whiners who keep making the excuse that you believe Thrall to be perfect, to be without flaws.. and yet this very thread is trying to draw to the fact Thrall had a flaw in trusting Garrosh, meaning he isn't perfect.


    You all have such narrow views of the story from such tiny perspectives you seem unable to see the lore and its characters as they are.
    - You think Garrosh a hero when he acts like a monster.
    - You call Thrall perfect when its shown he isn't perfect.
    - You fail to see the lessons being taught here with this current conflict and blame it on the wrong characters.

    All of you are horrible judges of character.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Was it a mistake to trust Garrosh as he did? Yes, but he wasn't to know, and by the time it was clear the kind of monster Garrosh was it was to late to change it.
    The fact he didn't know doesn't mean that it wasn't a mistake. Now that we're clear it's a mistake we can also be clear that this mistake is Garrosh and we all know what he's done.

    Thrall made a bad choice in allies. This isn't the first time it's happened. Thrall isn't perfect, nobody in their right mind would demonize him for this, but to do what you're doing and absolving him of guilt is just as bad.

  4. #64
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    Thrall knew exactly what garrosh was going to do. With Thrall (incredibly beloved) stepping down he knew the horde needed a popular war hero to lead them so the horde would stay together and not splinter off
    Lok'tar ogar! victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde, I give my flesh and blood freely to the warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my warchief's command. From this moment until the end of days I live and die- For the Horde

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    how so?
    Is a bad peace really better than the most just war?
    "Bad peace" for the orcs was "we're lazy and dumb and want something better but would rather murder and steal it than build it up because we're lazy and dumb".

    Their war isn't just. They aren't liberating anyone they are seeking to oppress them. Where do the Orcs get off thinking they are entitled to glory when their entire existence on Azeroth is inglorious infamy? Thrall wanted them to change their mentality and the way of life as a means of forging the glory they desired, Garrosh is back to the "Old Horde" mentality; why should anyone consider or treat his people any differently from say, Blackrock orcs as a result?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 06:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Sorry? WHAT? At no point the whole time Garrosh as been around he has never summoned demons. The ones in jade forest were forsaken thry were lead by a forsaken leader.
    Um no they weren't lead by the Forsaken nor was it the Forsaken alone who summoned demons. Did you even do the Alliance side quests? Did you read the Orcish Warlock leader's log after you killed him? He *ORDERED* the Forsaken to summon demons and the entire time he insulted them in his diary. His paranoia is why he had demons summoned and children kidnapped. It was an Orc, albeit Sha-controlled. The Forsaken were at odds with the Orcs the entire time...

  6. #66
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post

    I know your fishing for a reason to demonize Thrall, but its a pure case of morality when it comes down to it.
    Fishing really? He made a bad decision it is not like that was his first bad decision and it won't be his last, simple as that.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  7. #67
    Garrosh for all the screwing up he's done. Thrall for putting his faith in an inexperienced warmonger.

    Doomhammer EU

  8. #68
    Definitely Thrall's fault. Considering all Garrosh ever did was moan about not attacking the Alliance or comment on attacking the Alliance or do something involving attacking the Alliance it was like putting a gun in a serial killer's hand and trusting him not to murder anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    Sandbox MMOs are like having sex with a pornstar: Everyone wants it, but when you're getting it, it's suddenly not so awesome anymore.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Fishing really? He made a bad decision it is not like that was his first bad decision and it won't be his last, simple as that.
    And it shows that Thrall isn't perfect.

    Guys on these threads are so fickle and narrow in there collective opinion. They whine because they think Thrall saving azeroth made him perfect, but then the same people whine because they think Thrall made mistakes, which is the definition of not being perfect.

    The biggest fault isn't Thrall or even Garrosh's. Its the inconsistent, frivolous opinionation of the community that changes it view without any standards.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2012-11-10 at 07:46 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    It's in the Tides of War novel. Garrosh used demons to steal the focusing iris from the blue dragonflight.
    Both the Horde and Alliance have always used demonic powers, its not really an eye-popping thing to do

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 07:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    He was with Garrosh during the Northrend campaign he had him around quite often and he saw how Garrosh behaved, he knew him. That is the main reason I blame Thrall. Garrosh was never meant to be Warchief material, a general of course, but someone always had to reign him in, the same reason Sylvanas can never become warchief you would have the same fiasco.
    .
    To be fair, Thrall did not originally intend Garrosh to be a pernemant replacement for himself.
    He appointed Garrosh more as a figurehead, to raise the spirits of the Horde during those dark times, to give them pride and hope while Thrall is off in Outland

    He didnt look at Garrosh and was all "Dude, hes the perfect replacement for me!"

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 07:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    "Bad peace" for the orcs was "we're lazy and dumb and want something better but would rather murder and steal it than build it up because we're lazy and dumb".
    Because Orcs and lazy and dumb......... yeah that definatly is what it boils down to....

    Because it totally has nothing to do with them living in a freaking desert now does it
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-11-10 at 08:10 PM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #71
    I'd like to make a point on Tides of War here as well and how it handled Garrosh since it's been mentioned. It may well be one of the weakest of Christie's WoW novels and Garrosh's portrayal was just plain boring. It basically screamed this guy is bad he is evil omg look at how baaad he is, total bad guy. I don't know if every part of the novel is canon, I'm sure it is but in my opinion it was weak stuff. She tried too much to hit hard how much Garrosh needs to die by linking him to real life dictators such as using authority to surpress descent, forcing conscription to the military on everyone and of course that fabled word "genocide."

    That book alone would make everyone think Garrosh was to blame for everything, it added no dimension to him and again contradicted what's already established about the character in the lore. Poor effort on her behalf, everything was too obvious and Jaina's shit fit was kinda pathetic. In-game Garrosh is totally different to what he's like in the novels he has a sense of humour, short temper but has limits to his violence and bloodlust. Killing him off is a mercy killing at this point. I have never seen a character so poorly handled by any game universe in my life.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    That book alone would make everyone think Garrosh was to blame for everything, it added no dimension to him and again contradicted what's already established about the character in the lore. .
    Or maybe..you know...he just changed?
    That was kinda a big point in that book, charcaters like Jaina, Thrall, Garrosh ,Varian, they have changed, they are not the same people that we first met

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 08:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    I'd like to make a point on Tides of War here as well and how it handled Garrosh since it's been mentioned. It may well be one of the weakest of Christie's WoW novels and Garrosh's portrayal was just plain boring. It basically screamed this guy is bad he is evil omg look at how baaad he is, total bad guy.
    she did still put in parts to show that he is just a mortal, a person with feelings
    There were parts where he felt shame for questioning Baine's loyalty, showing him hurt at the other leaders actions, showing him saddened at the prosepct of defeat
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by PvPisthelifeforme View Post
    While not a child, he is quite young compared to other leaders/former leaders within the Horde.

    As for the gun analogy, that is perfect, and it begs the question of why Thrall would place that much power in a hot-headed buffoon that is Garrosh? (I like Garrosh as a soldier, but when it comes to the whole thinking thing.... yeah.... no.)
    Garrosh is actually OLDER than Thrall.

  14. #74
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    You know you guys who like Garrosh so much are the kind of people who would approve of bulldozing a landmass to cover it in concrete.
    Is that a fair assessment?

    I'm tired of people being unable to see the crap Garrosh is causing and now trying to pass it off as 'he was forced into being this way'. Garrosh has been going down this road for a long time now, and its just you lot that haven't been able to accept that.
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  15. #75
    I blame Thrall mostly, but also so called "advisors" who suppose to help Garrosh but instead they shoved disregard and hate from day 1.
    Thats why Garrosh is some kind of racist now.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Because Orcs and lazy and dumb......... yeah that definatly is what it boils down to....

    Because it totally has nothing to do with them living in a freaking desert now does it
    They have allies in prosperous areas, and living in a desert is hardly an excuse for being backwards, in fact in our own real world history the most ancient of civilisations sprung up out of desert regions because the people there realised the only way to not be stuck forever at the mercy of the land was through innovation. Orcs don't innovate, they are lazy and dumb, and belligerent. Sorry you can't seem to grasp this but they are. Orcs have no thinkers or philosophers, education and knowledge seem to only be of value to Thrall and perhaps a handful of warlocks, those of whom would seek to use it for malicious ends. Orcs know nothing of how to live amongst other people; they seem to have all the resources in the world to build a huge navy and military but they can't, ya know, build a fleet of fishing vessels to solve their claimed food shortages? The only thing Orcs value is brute physical strength, now more than ever thanks to Warsong filth like Garrosh and his Blackrock vermin lackies. That is their problem, the core problem with Orcs as a race and one that Thrall wasn't able to fix because he dropped his efforts to join the Earthen Ring.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    I blame Thrall mostly, but also so called "advisors" who suppose to help Garrosh but instead they shoved disregard and hate from day 1.
    Thats why Garrosh is some kind of racist now.
    As I say, you honestly think Garrosh is the way he is now because its other characters fault, or the fault of the writers making him this way because of people disliking him. Reality check, Garrosh was set to go down this road, and you simply don't want to accept that fact.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Orcs know nothing of how to live amongst other people; they seem to have all the resources in the world to build a huge navy and military but they can't, ya know, build a fleet of fishing vessels to solve their claimed food shortages?
    fishing vessels?
    You gonna feed an entire civilization on fish?

    Maybe you dont know, but the Orcs lived on Draneor for hundreds of years, and they lived just fine there
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You know you guys who like Garrosh so much are the kind of people who would approve of bulldozing a landmass to cover it in concrete.
    Is that a fair assessment?.
    I'd say that's accurate. They'd agree to destroying a national park to drill for oil rather than put money into R&D for newer, better energy sources. Then say they were "forced" to do it because of the dwindling supply of finite oil

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You know you guys who like Garrosh so much are the kind of people who would approve of bulldozing a landmass to cover it in concrete.
    Is that a fair assessment?

    I'm tired of people being unable to see the crap Garrosh is causing and now trying to pass it off as 'he was forced into being this way'. Garrosh has been going down this road for a long time now, and its just you lot that haven't been able to accept that.
    Are you not getting tired of your own Thrall endorsing and Garrosh bashing, whilst insulting other people for disagreeing with you? Every darn post. Cut it out.

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