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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I didn't say you had to be Abrahamic to be genocidal. Which scriptures are we talking about here? Bible? Qur'an? Torah? I can cite you examples from each one of scriptures giving praises for individuals who destroy other societies just because they didn't believe.
    You clearly stated that these religions promoted genocide within their scriptures; my point is that genocidal doctrine is contra to these scriptures and that is how individuals twist these things. You also used the word 'written' and that is perhaps part of the reason why you may have this misconception. I am not really going to go into more details simply because such a discussion on religion is out of the scope of a forum like MMO-champion.

    I am talking about all 3 scriptures here, in general. Just so you know, I don't want to spark up a full on argument on religion here. I would encourage you (and others) to do do more reading more on the matter of philosophy of different religions.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    You clearly stated that these religions promoted genocide within their scriptures; my point is that genocidal doctrine is contra to these scriptures and that is how individuals twist these things. You also used the word 'written' and that is perhaps part of the reason why you may have this misconception. I am not really going to go into more details simply because such a discussion on religion is out of the scope of a forum like MMO-champion.

    I am talking about all 3 scriptures here, in general. Just so you know, I don't want to spark up a full on argument on religion here. I would encourage you (and others) to do do more reading more on the matter of philosophy of different religions.
    I said that each one held up as a virtuous man someone who murdered and destroyed other peoples just because they didn't believe in the same god as them. I didn't say the overarching philosophy embraced genocide, nor do I think religion actually makes people genocidal.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Mnevis View Post
    Spoiler: You're both right. (in that you both can collect evidence and scripture that support your perspective. Saying that there's no whiff of genocide or intolerance in the Bible only means you haven't read it.)

    Justification for slavery and war for you, support for tolerance and enlightened attitudes toward the poor for you. Everyone's happy. Of course you don't have to be a member of one of the Abrahamic religions to consider your ingroup intrinsically superior to another, the chosen people, it was pretty damn important to humans thousands of years ago, and we haven't entirely grown out of it.
    Well said. The converse is also true: Meaning that saying that there's evidence of genocide or intolerance in the Qur'an only means you haven't read it.).

    TL,DR: We should drop the hate for each other.

  4. #504
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The mandate was divided up unfairly. Palestinians owned 93% of the land, zionists 7%. Israel was given far more land disproportionately to what they actually owned.
    Tell us something.. you say the land belongs to the Palestinians... prove which land, when it was acquired, and from who.

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  5. #505
    Brewmaster Jigowatt's Avatar
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    Hey look! American tax dollars at work! -_-

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    Well said. The converse is also true: Meaning that saying that there's evidence of genocide or intolerance in the Qur'an only means you haven't read it.).

    TL,DR: We should drop the hate for each other.
    Really? Do you know what Banu Qurayza is? Or the related Genocide? Kind of important to Islam since it involves the prophet Muhammad.

  7. #507
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Are you assuming that every Arab who's complained about their land being taken doesn't have the deed to their property? In some cases, I'm sure that assumption would hold true, but in a great number of cases, the Arabs do in fact have the deeds, just they are ignored, or some law is written specifically targeting the Palestinians to give the government or settlers permission to take it. Here's a recent story about development in East Jerusalem.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I said that each one held up as a virtuous man someone who murdered and destroyed other peoples just because they didn't believe in the same god as them. I didn't say the overarching philosophy embraced genocide, nor do I think religion actually makes people genocidal.
    And I said that this is a misconception. It is just that philosophy is tied to both belief (as outlined in scriptures) and actions based on such beliefs. So to associate scriptures with anything (say, idolization of murdering people with different views) would be tantamount to saying actions are derived from the ideals taken from these scriptures (aka murdering said people). I was saying that these scriptures - and hence the religions based on these scriptures - are more about peaceful coexistence, despite the presence of individuals with conflicting viewpoints.

    Glad that this is clear.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    And I said that this is a misconception. It is just that philosophy is tied to both belief (as outlined in scriptures) and actions based on such beliefs. So to associate scriptures with anything (say, idolization of murdering people with different views) would be tantamount to saying actions are derived from the ideals taken from these scriptures (aka murdering said people). I was saying that these scriptures - and hence the religions based on these scriptures - are more about peaceful coexistence, despite the presence of individuals with conflicting viewpoints.

    Glad that this is clear.
    The 'One God' that these three religions revere (allah/jehovah) orders his followers to kill and destroy entire cities because he has decided that his people want the land. The leaders who destroy these cities are held up and paragons of virtue in these religions.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Really? Do you know what Banu Qurayza is? Or the related Genocide? Kind of important to Islam since it involves the prophet Muhammad.
    I am aware of that tribe as well as the genocide, that you quote. Muhammad had nothing to do with the genocide of that tribe. In fact, he had proposed a peace treaty with that tribe and 2 other tribes.

    Lets keep the religious references out if this thread. I have made clear what I wanted to say and I do not want this to spiral into an argument. Thanks.

  11. #511
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Removed USA backing of Israel and let the true balance of power emerge.

    Re-establish the pre-1967 borders, and most notably, after Syria sorts itself out give back the Golan Heights (contrary to what you may have heard, Asssad's regime and the Free Syrian Army are as bad as each other).

    Stop Apartheid in Israel, bring down the wall.

    As a final solution, all move to the USA.

  12. #512
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor Faustus View Post
    Removed USA backing of Israel and let the true balance of power emerge.

    Re-establish the pre-1967 borders, and most notably, after Syria sorts itself out give back the Golan Heights (contrary to what you may have heard, Asssad's regime and the Free Syrian Army are as bad as each other).

    Stop Apartheid in Israel, bring down the wall.

    As a final solution, all move to the USA.
    1. pre-1967 borders would have been fine... however, the arab states didn't see it that way and attacked, again, and lost. Why should the victor give a damn thing to the aggressors?

    2. the wall exists to keep cowards from mindlessly blowing themselves up while targeting Israeli citizens.... I bet if the suicide bombings and rocket attacks stopped that Israel MIGHT consider relaxing the wall.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    The 'One God' that these three religions revere (allah/jehovah) orders his followers to kill and destroy entire cities because he has decided that his people want the land. The leaders who destroy these cities are held up and paragons of virtue in these religions.
    Not true at all. And this is the stuff that spreads hate. [sigh]

  14. #514
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Dudes with beards angry at dudes with beards blow up dudes with beards. Dudes with beards subsequently become angry with dudes with beards for blowing up dudes with beards, so they blow up dudes with beards.

    Also, something about grotty arid shitholes apparently being arbitrarily important to variant magic sky ghosts. Or something.
    Best and unbiased post in this thread, I applaud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    2. the wall exists to keep cowards from mindlessly blowing themselves up while targeting Israeli citizens.... I bet if the suicide bombings and rocket attacks stopped that Israel MIGHT consider relaxing the wall.
    There's no way this would happen. Also Israel is killing just as much civilians mindlessly as the Palestines are. In the current conflict even more.
    Last edited by Whitey; 2012-11-16 at 09:22 AM.
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  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    Not true at all. And this is the stuff that spreads hate. [sigh]
    And here I thought we were done discussing it because you didn't want to? Knowledge is not hate.

  16. #516
    Bloodsail Admiral soulcrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vantheus View Post
    There is no recognized state of palestine by Israel or most of the western world so they have no "their land". One day one of those homemade rockets is going to kill the wrong Israeli and Israel will finally make a nice big parking lot out of the area and end the attacks once and for all...personally i hope it's much sooner than later
    you mean after depriving them of their property, taking it from arabs and giving it to their own people, walling them in a ghetto and starving them, depriving them of supplies and medicines Israel will eventually implement a final solution? that sounds familiar..

    ofc the fact that big gas deposits have been found off the gaza coast have nothing to do with any of it. meanwhile children on both sides are killed and maimed.
    Last edited by soulcrusher; 2012-11-16 at 09:25 AM.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And here I thought we were done discussing it because you didn't want to? Knowledge is not hate.
    Yeah, done. You're not sharing knowledge, though.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by ttak82 View Post
    Yeah, done. You're not sharing knowledge, though.
    Heh. You say two different things at once and are ok with it. Seems familiar but I just can't quite put my finger on it.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Heh. You say two different things at once and are ok with it. Seems familiar but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
    Keep trying. Best you can do.

  20. #520
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Again, lay off the religion talk.

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