USA falling apart?

[Niroshi]

The US is not falling apart in any context whatsoever. The people wanting to leave are throwing little more than a hissy fit. Very few of them seem to have truly considered what would happen if they were to try to leave the Union, the government would never allow that to happen. If they chose to fight their way out of the Union they would lose, and those who supported the movement would be charged with treason or even possibly dragged off under the NDAA.

Just treat it as it is, people throwing a tantrum because they hate the rest of the country's choice for President. Let them suck on their thumbs while listening to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity about the evil muslim socialist trying to destroy white America.

[Wildtree]

They will compete with Venezuela for oil in South America, see Panama canal, and their exports to Europe and India will be more expensive than the middle east. Texas would be wholly dependent on US, due to our demand and their location giving them an exporting disadvantage to just about every other major consumer.

Europe is tight knit with the USA. The European countries would follow any embargo and not buy Texas oil.

Maybe they'd resort to J.R. Ewing, to get the market going... lol

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 11:39 AM ----------

I live in one of the states not mentioned here, and I'm all for the states separating if they want - thats why there are states in the first place - so they could maintain their identity even though part of the "union". I am not being a dick here either - like okay texas see ya later don't let the door hit you on the way out (as many of you wow players have said). They deserve the right to leave if they want and feel they can maintain order in their state w/o federal help - (LOL federal help is like a contradiction). The election process in the US isn't right anymore either, if an election comes down to a near 50/50 split, why should the losing party have to deal with the winning party? because the northern/eastern states have more pull? Oh yea, that's great - what a great system. No wonder they want to leave - their voices aren't heard and better yet - they are forced to swallow shit (obama) when told to - sounds fun for texas. If they split - illegal or not, I'm heading to texas.

You have to put up with it for the same reason the other 5% had to put up with you the last time...

[Rommon64]

question: Does/can Texas produce more oil than the Alberta oil sands/eastern off-shore here in Canada? I ask 'cause I know we're your biggest source of oil outside your country, and that would determine if the US would even buy Texan oil post split.

[anthemm]

It's naive to think secession will occur without a war. During the Civil War, hundreds of thousands of people were killed. Another war would probably be inevitable, were secession an actual threat to the Union. Hell, the idea of nullification already sends chills up people's spines.

If the United States were to deteriorate economically and culturally for several decades--which I'm not saying it will--then and only then will the prospect of secession be more likely. As it stands, people are signing the petition because it symbolically addresses their grievances against the current government.

[Byniri]

I'm picking the most pointless points to reply to, but the NATIONAL basketball league has teams in Canada, and the Eagles are tied for last in the division, wouldn't make the playoffs if the Cowboys ceased to exist.

Carry on!

Plus the American League has the Blue Jays.

[chadwix]

Who owns the gulf of mexico? If texas left wouldnt they be able to farm natural gas off shore? Currently our gov prevents us from using our greatest asset. That alone would make texas richer than the other 49 states combined.

[Felya]

Europe is tight knit with the USA. The European countries would follow any embargo and not buy Texas oil.

Maybe they'd resort to J.R. Ewing, to get the market going... lol

I am assuming this is a peaceful withdraw. If you consider a US embargo, Texas is a third world nation within a year. Losing US as a consumer, leaves little outside of China. Good luck setting your export prices to compete with China's labor prices. This is with the assumption world economy does not collapse.

I really doubt anyone in the world would be safe from the collapse Texas, or any state, leaving would cause. Those who think their lives will get better when the world economy collapses, are delusional. Good luck selling your oil, when money is worthless.

[tiporispit]

You see "people had enough", I see a bunch of sore losers who can't accept the results of democratic election.

There's nothing democratic about the electoral system. The parliamentary system is superior to the American system in every way possible. Democracy should be built on coalitions, not a fake 2-party sham.

[Wildtree]

question: Does/can Texas produce more oil than the Alberta oil sands/eastern off-shore here in Canada? I ask 'cause I know we're your biggest source of oil outside your country, and that would determine if the US would even buy Texan oil post split.

Nope...

here's the rough numbers...
As of 2006, output of oil sands production had increased to 1.126 million barrels per day (179,000 m3/d). Oil sands were the source of 62% of Alberta's total oil production and 47% of all oil produced in Canada. The Alberta government believes this level of production could reach 3 Mbbl/d (480,000 m3/d) by 2020 and possibly 5 Mbbl/d (790,000 m3/d) by 2030.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's no surprise that Texas is the largest domestic producer of oil as this state has had a culture associated with the oil business for more than century. Many historians trace the beginning of the modern oil era to the famous Spindletop well drilled near Beaumont, Texas in 1901. The well blew out and reportedly produced 100,000 barrels of oil per day until it was brought under control nine days later.

In January 2011, crude oil production in Texas averaged 962,338 barrels a day.

[Reeve]

Texas's Production was 392,867,000 million barrels in 2004 (Best information I could find with a quick google search: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ene...oil-production). In 2010 (yes, a little bit apples to oranges), Alberta exported approximately 511,000,000 barrels (http://www.energy.alberta.ca/OilSands/791.asp).

So Texas isn't as big as Alberta in terms of production, but it's still quite large.

[Felya]

Who owns the gulf of mexico? If texas left wouldnt they be able to farm natural gas off shore? Currently our gov prevents us from using our greatest asset. That alone would make texas richer than the other 49 states combined.

Without big oil, we will most likely lose any barriers on expanding reusable energy infrastructure. The greatest asset to Texas labor is the illegal workers. If Texas goes solo, the minimum wage is gone and you are going to be left with a plutocracy. If your existence is dependent solely on limited resources, just like the middle east, Texas will be rich... but the people of Texas... not so much...

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 05:53 PM ----------

There's nothing democratic about the electoral system. The parliamentary system is superior to the American system in every way possible. Democracy should be built on coalitions, not a fake 2-party sham.

At least you are not arguing the sore loser part.

[tiporispit]

because Texas is part of the country as a whole. You benefit from other aspects, where other states are funding you.
And no.. it is not a major misconception.. Ask Iran how their economy is doing at the moment...
They are facing large embargo's at the moment.
If you are on an embargo list your economy gets to shreds.
The only way out is then for you to team with those who are also on your end of the stick. Like the example I gave with North Korea.

I haven't mentioned yet, that in case of becoming independent. You have to build up a lot of things from scratch, which you don't own, but enjoy as of now.
Starting with building up your own military force.
The one existing answers and belongs to the United States. Can you handle that? Can you build up enough military security to defend yourself?
Remember. you broke the law, you left. You have no resources left coming from the USA.
How is your agriculture looking?
There are a lot of things to account from which you benefit through others, before making any claims why you should be paying for others..

Texas has every right to put its interests first. That was the design of the Constitution, before the political manipulation of its content. The Federal government was never intended to have this type of power of the States. Their given powers in Article I, Section 8 are clear. The 10th Amendment is equally clear. If you told a Founding Father you were going to take $50 billion dollars from Texas to pay for Social Security recipients in Florida, they'd of laughed you out of the convention. Read their correspondence. Read the Constitution. They were fairly articulate men, who may have overestimated the intelligence of future generations to comprehend English.

[Wildtree]

Who owns the gulf of mexico? If texas left wouldnt they be able to farm natural gas off shore? Currently our gov prevents us from using our greatest asset. That alone would make texas richer than the other 49 states combined.

Texas owns as much of the gulf as the international open water laws determine. 15 miles from the shore out. With limitation to the neighbor states left (mexico) and right (louisina), where there isn't an inch to expand.
So you basically have a territory in the shape of a cone, expanding into the gulf.

[Felya]

Are people actually saying that the Texas government will take over their oil industry? Because, unless Texas plans to socialize their oil production, the massive profits do not go to Texas, but to the oil companies that drill for oil.

[Lethey Alexandros]

Where I dont see this happening, I hope the federal government will take a look at the fact that people are so displeased that this has even arisen as an issue.

[Wildtree]

Texas has every right to put its interests first. That was the design of the Constitution, before the political manipulation of its content. The Federal government was never intended to have this type of power of the States. Their given powers in Article I, Section 8 are clear. The 10th Amendment is equally clear. If you told a Founding Father you were going to take $50 billion dollars from Texas to pay for Social Security recipients in Florida, they'd of laughed you out of the convention. Read their correspondence. Read the Constitution. They were fairly articulate men, who may have overestimated the intelligence of future generations to comprehend English.

You are only assuming about what your "founding fathers" would have thought.
Yet you are ignoring the whole intention of them behind building this country..
It was based on ridding the people from the social injustice of the crown.
Yet those very roots getting ignored, and constitution wavers ignore the historical facts.
Most famous example is the freedom of speech act...
That was meant to refer to the government, and the government only, to ensure the people have a right to speak up..
Not more, not less.... During the reign of the crown, one could have lost their head, if they'd expressed their disagreement.
We know just too well how it's misused, and perverted nowadays.
I wonder what them founding fathers would say to this...

Learn the meaning of the constitution in relationship to history. Stop applying it to today's modern times. But most of all, stop trying to say "the founding fathers would have"... You aren't a psychic who knows exactly what long dead men would have really thought.
The closest you can get is taking what they've written down in context to the times at when it was written down. Find the roots why it was written down, and then try to carefully develop into today with it.
To me, the founding fathers of America have been a lot more socialist driven than todays conservatives reflect. Hence hiding behind them is like taking the famous arrow to your knee.

[Felya]

Where I dont see this happening, I hope the federal government will take a look at the fact that people are so displeased that this has even arisen as an issue.

You mean like just about every election? In a few states, like WA, it's an annual event of the east side demanding autonomy from the west side, which includes a county of 1/3 of the states population and determines all elections.

This is not indicative of reality, but is a kin to the riots that happen when a sports team loses. You don't really mean to be an ass and break other peoples stuff because your team lost, but that's just the irrational emotional reaction.

[dantian]

Hi, I'm a Texan. Texas isn't leaving.

Hell, in four years Texas is going to be a swing state. Demographics are shifting fast. Texas has big, liberal cities and a quickly booming population of minorities. Republicans think that's a bad thing, I think it's fucking awesome. Fuck O'Reilly's "traditional" America.

[Maki]

Do these right wing idiots not remember the 2002 election when their golden boy G.W. Bush won in the same manner as Obama won in 2012? (Popular vs Electoral) Get over it.

[BrerBear]

The best part about all the secession talk is that, in the event it ever happened, all the brain trust that even exists there would flee the sinking ship. The techies in Austin, the medical center experts in Houston, telecom in Dallas. All that would be left in Texas would be mediocre agriculture, oil refineries, and strip malls.

Texas is a more divided state than most people realize, and lots of the populace would be having none of this.
(Born, raised, educated in Texas. Couldn't get out of there fast enough.)