New Dungeon, Fractals of the Mists

[Kelesti]

Lol I think we have entirerly different views on Ascension gear... I'm thinking of it more like when you hit X wave you get Y% more stats (like moral boost) an then the whole GW1 infusion system, not like a progression like in wow....

except, that's not how this works. Ascension Armor is not a multiplier wave-bonus. It is progression, better gear than Exotics, which was the already established cap.

In your head, your ideas may work great, but they aren't even remotely founded in reality. This is what we're dealing with, the introduction of tier gear. This is what it is. It's bimodal. It's contrary to established design, and everything they've been preaching since alpha.

Can you seperate yourself from fantasy enough to admit that much, at least?

[Valeron]

The Guardian I've been running alongside has been learning to Blast finisher my Ethereal fields (especially when melee heavy). It applies Chaos Armor to anyone nearby, and is pretty awesome/effective.

Combos could definitely stand out more, but if you're running with some friends regularily, you already know which ones work really well for your comp, and what you need to do to take advantage of them.

Yeah they are great but I think it has to be even better and possibly more combos to try to get people to work together more often. Right now, unless you are in a consistent group, they feel like a side effect if you even notice them. I see people complaining that GW2 has a lack of teamwork, whether that is imagined or truthful it still has the appearance of no teamwork. If the combo mechanics were more apparent it would show folks that yes, there is teamwork in GW2.

[Durzlla]

I was thinking something along the lines but plain stat boost is sort of akin to a perma-boon in that way so maybe there is a visual component to it as well. Like...you glow more in the dark Or maybe a special proc or series of special procs or sub-skills gets added which you could switch between transitions by buying runes from vendors. I think the idea of plain stat boosts would be fairly boring by comparison considering what you could do with it if just limiting to a dungeon.

I was thinking that you'd glow after achieving X level in ascension gear and then glow brighter (and maybe even different colors) for every Y more levels you complete to kinda show off just how BA you are.

[Sojou]

Aye...

We could call it Guild Wars 2: World of Guildcraft

...I jest...well maybe a little

Has nothing to do with WoW - the trinity formula is a proven and successful formula for creating balanced and strategic PvE content. Why anyone would be against improving a particular aspect of this game simply blows my mind.

The groundwork for a trinity push is already there. Minor tweaking to various classes/talents and you'd have a situation where they could create compelling content that challenged users beyond just giving you poorly telegraphed 1 shot mechanics, or damage sponge mobs that do nothing but stress the group with having to deal with exceptionally poor gameplay situations for extended periods of time.

[Valeron]

Has nothing to do with WoW - the trinity formula is a proven and successful formula for creating balanced and strategic PvE content. Why anyone would be against improving a particular aspect of this game simply blows my mind.

Aye, might as well make their conversion complete. I mean it looks like they threw their manifesto out the window anyway.

One of these days a developer will have some balls. CCP perhaps?

[Fencers]

One of these days a developer will have some balls. CCP perhaps?

I think we'll see this in the more sandbox-y MMOs than in MMOs aimed at structured PVE game modes.

Or at the very least make concession to have a healer archetype as GW1. 2/3rds of a trinity.

[Zeek Daniels]

This is the kind of rationalization I'm talking about. Suddenly it's ok to have content based around a gear grind, because you don't have to do it if you don't want to, even though that same logic applies to every single other MMO that has been attacked on this board for "Carrot on a Stick" reward structures.

And this is where the disconnect is. What ppl who critizise Carrot on a stick reward structure's have a problem with is that they are not able to do content without doing prior content and the content b4 that and the content b4 that. In order to do the last tier of a WoW expansion for example you need to have gear from the previous tier or an ilvl equivalent. In order to do a part of the game you need to have "this", if you dont have "it" you cant do "this" part of the game. Thats what a carrot on a stick structure is that is the gear treadmill.

Now how is that anywhere close to what is being introduced into GW2? Where is the previous tier of gear i need to go get in order to do this dungeon. Thats right there isnt one.

What you as a GW2 player need to realize is that there are 9 different maps. These Maps are replayable. And once you have completed them once, you have seen the content Arena Net have offered. Anything beyond that is a personal grind because you are trying to reach some goal or reward. <<< That is what the new dungeon set is for. Its not for the players that dont want to play a dungeon over and over again. Its for the players that want to. Its not for the players that dont want an increase in difficulty as they do the different maps. Its for the players that want a more difficult challenge.

There is no dungeon yet to be introduced in to GW2 that requires you to have the highest gear available in order to complete it. That would be against Anets philosophy. Anet wants skill and teamwork to complete their dungeons, not gear. That is why your scaled down, thats why stats matter little. When GW2 introduces content that doesnt allow players to complete it without getting a set of higher level items, That day will be the day when all this backlash will be warrented. That day hasnt come yet.

The problem is that the dungeon cannot be beat, it has no end, it scales indefinitely, and the rewards have to be better or look better than whats currently on the market else ppl wont want to do it more than once. Blame Anet for making the dungeon infinite, dont blame them for adding higher stats on gear. The second is a byproduct of the first. I wish you ppl would realize that.

Maybe we will need that gear because Fractals of the Mist will throw Mandelbrot dragons at us while we are trying to climb an infinite tower via jumping over non-uniform blocks and those stats will be highly esoteric like +10 to Complexity

Omg could you imagine an Infinite Mad Kings Clock Tower? That would be epic.

[MrSerious]

Maybe the ascended/infused gear will allow us to fall further and jump higher.

Basically the new dungeon is split into 9 parts increasing in diffculty as you progress through them. The infused gear give you bonuses against certain mobs allowing you to progress. Its a PvE buff not a PvP one.

[Durzlla]

I think we'll see this in the more sandbox-y MMOs than in MMOs aimed at structured PVE game modes.

Or at the very least make concession to have a healer archetype as GW1. 2/3rds of a trinity.

If they add healers I will refuse to play Gw2.... Those creatures are the reason I don't like the trinity.... (I'm still bitter about being forced into a healer role in every game I play where one is available)

[Azuri]

One of these days a developer will have some balls. CCP perhaps?

Different animal but Trion has big balls. Why? They tried to do the non-progression stat gear for their upcoming expansion in PVP and came out said nope doesn't work with our design model so fuck it and scrapped it.

OT: Has the blog regarding this change/dungeon/armor hit the web yet? Makes me wonder if the backlash is making them re-think things.

[Kelesti]

OT: Has the blog regarding this change/dungeon/armor hit the web yet? Makes me wonder if the backlash is making them re-think things.

Nope. Not a peep since, and I'm thinking Markymark Martin What'shisassholename was told to kindly shut the fuck up and stop talking to people like they're children, his Twitter Feed's been focussed on completely different things since then.


Still sad that no one commented on my "Is he the new Jay "Fuck That Guy" Wilson?"

[Zeek Daniels]

@azuri, All they can really do is better explain things so ppl understand. Once the dungeon is ingame later this week ppl will stop the fuss. everyone will complete the 9 different dungeons in their current gear and will make the decision to continue or to go do other content. Nothing has changed, no one is forcing anyone to farm to see content. Its the same content at a higher difficulty and Anet havent said you need the new gear to do the higher difficulty. That gear is just a reward for doing so. It may help it may not. Speculation sucks. And alot of ppl are speculating in this thread.

~wish Mif was here =(

[barackopala]

And this is how it all begins... back to the reddit pitchfork movement!

Why don't we just wait and see how it develops instead of randomly making asumptions?

[Azuri]

@azuri, All they can really do is better explain things so ppl understand. Once the dungeon is ingame later this week ppl will stop the fuss. everyone will complete the 9 different dungeons in their current gear and will make the decision to continue or to go do other content. Nothing has changed, no one is forcing anyone to farm to see content. Its the same content at a higher difficulty and Anet havent said you need the new gear to do the higher difficulty. That gear is just a reward for doing so. It may help it may not. Speculation sucks. And alot of ppl are speculating in this thread.

~wish Mif was here =(

Yeah I understand I won't be one of the people riding the pain train. I never jump into speculation threads in any game until I hear it from the horses mouth It's kind of the reason I asked if the blog had surfaced anywhere. They said it was in the works so it makes me think that forum outrage has made them think before foot in mouth going forward.

Wait it out and see.

[Kelesti]

And this is how it all begins... back to the reddit pitchfork movement!

Why don't we just wait and see how it develops instead of randomly making asumptions?

It'd be assumptions if we said "THERE WILL BE ICECREAM AND CAKE AND WE CAN USE TANKS AND HELICOPTERS"

When they flat out said "The new gear will be better than Exotics" what part of this is an assumption? It's stated. There has been zero instances of ArenaNet denying it as misinformation, wrong, anything. That's not an assumption. And the fact that they've pushed back their blog-post (as well as their responses on the subject) back now kind of shows how "proud" they are of this point in time.

[Fencers]

@azuri, All they can really do is better explain things so ppl understand. Once the dungeon is ingame later this week ppl will stop the fuss. everyone will complete the 9 different dungeons in their current gear and will make the decision to continue or to go do other content. Nothing has changed, no one is forcing anyone to farm to see content. Its the same content at a higher difficulty and Anet havent said you need the new gear to do the higher difficulty. That gear is just a reward for doing so. It may help it may not. Speculation sucks. And alot of ppl are speculating in this thread.

Speculation is good dude. That's what encourages lively discussion.

Waiting on an explanation before any dialogue takes place amounts to no discussion worth having.

The impulse to defend a game or company is lowly.

[Zeek Daniels]

well Kelesti i can say for a fact that im not doing CoF runs because of the stats assciated with the exotic items. Im doing it for the looks. Just cuz a set of items come out thats higher than exotics doesnt mean i have to go get them.

Lets say Anet every 3 months released a new Tier of gear that was slightly better than the last. But every dungeon they introduce is on par with the dungeons available at release? What would you say then? The stats then become cosmetic. You dont need the stats to do the content. But you want the stats prolly to stroke your ego, you know bigger numbers and all.

If GW2 doesnt gate content by requiring you have these Tiers of gear, then I dont have a problem with GW2 and neither should anyone else who plays the game. The Content available playthrough wise in this dungeon is available to every level 80 character. Every level 80 character gets to do these 9 maps in random orders and such. But the point is you can do them and can prolly do them easily. This means there is no Content gating. The only thing being held infront of you like a carrot is the Ascended gear itself. And that gear is just like cosmetic gear, those who do the runs will get the gear. Those that dont do the runs wont get the gear. Those that put the time in to do the Fractals at higher difficulty will be rewarded with a new gear type, Those that dont wont. This gear doesnt help you clear content, a person in blues could clear the dungeon.

Again whole lotta fuss being made for nothing.

[Remilia]

well Kelesti i can say for a fact that im not doing CoF runs because of the stats assciated with the exotic items. Im doing it for the looks. Just cuz a set of items come out thats higher than exotics doesnt mean i have to go get them.

It's not about what you or anyone is doing as it is the hypocrisy that was display when they went against their own philosophy.

Lets say Anet every 3 months released a new Tier of gear that was slightly better than the last. But every dungeon they introduce is on par with the dungeons available at release? What would you say then? The stats then become cosmetic. You dont need the stats to do the content. But you want the stats prolly to stroke your ego, you know bigger numbers and all.

Stats = cosmetics is a new one.

If GW2 doesnt gate content by requiring you have these Tiers of gear, then I dont have a problem with GW2 and neither should anyone else who plays the game. The Content available playthrough wise in this dungeon is available to every level 80 character. Every level 80 character gets to do these 9 maps in random orders and such. But the point is you can do them and can prolly do them easily. This means there is no Content gating. The only thing being held infront of you like a carrot is the Ascended gear itself. And that gear is just like cosmetic gear, those who do the runs will get the gear. Those that dont do the runs wont get the gear. Those that put the time in to do the Fractals at higher difficulty will be rewarded with a new gear type, Those that dont wont. This gear doesnt help you clear content, a person in blues could clear the dungeon.

Again whole lotta fuss being made for nothing.

In order to do well in the 2nd level of the dungeon progression, you need the 1st. In order to do the 3rd, you need the 2nd. Especially when the difficulty is going to ramp up.
It's like going through Dark Souls in a soul level less than 10 build and going into new game pluses. You're going to go to a point where no matter how skilled you are, you're going to get killed without the gear / stats.

[Durzlla]

So according to the blog, legendary armor/weapons are meant to be THE BEST items in game that they just haven't added yet... i'll allow it.... for now, but if it ever goes higher then legendary we're going to have beef...

[Kelesti]

So according to the blog, legendary armor/weapons are meant to be THE BEST items in game that they just haven't added yet... i'll allow it.... for now, but if it ever goes higher then legendary we're going to have beef...

You missed the part where they said they'll always keep legendaries at BiS, just bump them up whenever they need to.

But that blog post, hoo boy. So we have accelerated gearstats (at the cost of runes, oh noes whatever will I do), gated content that's requiring someone get the best gear possible to push deeper in, and "more to come".... I gave up raiding, so I could... raid? I dun get it.

It's nice to know that you know, the manifesto meant so much to them.