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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed. Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    wrong the void has never had anything to do with warlocks.

    necromancers = arcane magic

    warlocks = fel magic

    shadow priests = shadow or "void" magic
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed.
    I don't even…
    Everything evil in WoW isn't a "supposed Warlock theme".
    Items for two classes got a bit of pandaria's sha touch, what's the problem? Themes overlap all the time. Shamans and Mages use elementals, Warlocks and Hunters use pets, Priests and Paladins use light based healing.

    Also shadowfiend -> sha is simpler to implement, than dealing with 10 different demons. (Warlocks get a class specific quest line, btw. Enjoy)

    Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    From day one. Warlocks throwing fireballs, summoning demons and draining souls. Shadowpriests using more subtle things like mind blast, mind control and psychic scream.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed. Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    No, stop it...just stop. Take your "facts" and just leave.

  4. #64
    Lot of warlocks (like me as i'm mianing that in pve) we rolled to lock because its lore is...who f. cares about lore, its about destrying meters and with lock its rather easy.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    Lot of warlocks (like me as i'm mianing that in pve) we rolled to lock because its lore is...who f. cares about lore, its about destrying meters and with lock its rather easy.
    I just play whatever class(es) I find compelling and enjoyable...which switches sometimes several times throughout an expansion. (Rogue, Lock, DK, Priest, Mage, Druid, Monk.)

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed. Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    I agree.

    I started playing a priest because they were the 'holy class', but I rage quit as soon as I saw Paladins were also a holy class!

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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed. Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    I forgot how cool shadowpriest animations were other than shadowform. Our dots do nothing cool, our nuke does nothing cool, we get a lame mf animation, shadowfined/mindbender goes in melee range and you barely ever see it, psyfiend is p decent looking but have literally zero use in PvE. Yeah, sadow gets one new nifty effect that you will barely be able to see. I'll gladly trade you your dps possibility/animations any day.

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  8. #68
    One thing that I want to clarify is that I am not bashing the SP community or anything. I play a shadowpriest as well, but atm he is not my main char. These were mostly my personal thoughts and yes I didn't receive in account if I look stupid or anything. I didn't mention that this is something more than my personal opinion regardless of what it may seem like. In addition to that, negative feedback is accepted, that is why the post was made in the first place in a SP forum rather than any other one.

    There are minor things that I disagree with such as how Warlocks had nothing to do with the void to begin with(?). Also, I didn't say that anything "evil" or "dark" is a Warlock only. What I was saying for example is that even among demons, the warlock thing, the most delicate ones are the Dreadlords, who even though they are demonic, they have a shadowpriest mindset. To summarise, I play both classes, SP is not my main atm, I feel disappointed that most if not all of the things I prefer got implemented to my alt, that is all.

  9. #69
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed. Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    Let me try to field this one.

    Warlock themes, are to do with demons (specifically, the burning legion), fel magic (a breed of magic stemming in power from the burning legion), and a mastery of high-form magic (teleportation, pyromancy, etc) and in the case of affliction - they deal specifcially in spreading afflictions. The important thing to note, especcially in the case of Affliction (as it is the closest point of thematic overlap) is that Corruption or Unstable Affliction or Malefic Grasp or Drain Life / Soul - all of these are based in manifesting something essentially physical from the ether (Corrupting a target or afflicting them, draining them, grasping them, etc).

    Destruction - being probably the furthest thematically from Shadow - is more akin to a Sorcerous Pyromancer - they are something along the lines of Fire Mages who - in their quest for still greater power - have begun dabbling in black magic. Demonology warlocks are very specifically thematically associated with the Burning Legion connection that warlocks all share - they transform into demons, they summon and command more powerful demons. The Affliction warlock is the closest thematically to a Warlock proper - but they are a far, far cry from being a Shadowpriest: what do I mean by a Shadowpriest then?

    A Shadowpriest is, first and foremost, a Priest. We all began as priests - but - though our individual stories may differ - we became fascinated with the opposite of the Light. If "Know Your Enemy" is the first rule of war, Priests - who normally studiously study the Light - became a little too interested in the absence of light. That is why we are called "Shadow" priests, we are those priests who eschewed the light as we came to recognize that the true power to achieve our means came from knowing both sides of the coin, and then - when we have fully fallen - to going to whatever means necessary to achieve our ends. If you have heard the expression "When all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail" - well, Shadowpriests were Priests, then Priests who knew Shadow magic, and then priests who decided the best way to heal their friends was to speak the word "Death" to those that would harm them (as a hammer to a defiant nail).

    If you look at the spell set of the Spriest in particular (but also Priests in general) the power of the mind over the mind is far more important to us than the manipulation or manifestation of physical realities. We don't summon fire or demons or ice or teleport - all things I previously called high-form magic. All our spells deal with control over the mind - either ours or our opponents. Read these spell names out loud and think about the difference between a spell which manifests something physical (like a Chaos Bolt being a giant ball of fire) and something which is purely an abstraction of the mind:

    Psychic Scream, Horror, Psyfiend
    Mind Flay, Blast, Control, Bender
    Silence, Shadow Word: Pain, Shadow Word: Death, Power Word: Shield

    If I speak the word Pain, you feel it. If I say the word Death - and you are in a weakened state - you die - I didn't hit you in the face with a 12 foot sword, or immolate you in a wave of otherworldly fire - I merely told you that you were dead, and you believed me and stopped pumping your heart. Even spells like Inner Fire are a common reference to strong Willpower.

    Ok, so shadowpriests are priests, who are particularly invested in the powers of the mind over itself and others - but what does this have to do with the Sha? The Sha are physical manifestations of emotions, in a very big and important way - a Sha is not actually there when you fight it - it's a construct - an idea - in your mind. It doesn't have internal organs, mama Sha's don't give birth to baby Sha's, Sha's do not die of old age. A priest - but a shadowpriest in particular - would have special interest in the ability of emotions to control, terrify, or empower their allies. The Sha of Anger, or Fear, or Despair - these are all manifestations of your mind: they are not demons. They are not even really high-form magic - but as you point out - they are something deeper, often more sinister but subtle. If a priest flays your mind, we do not whip out an egg beater and stir your brains around into mush - we discombobulate your thoughts (the flaying is metaphorical). Everything that a Spriest does, and everything that a Sha does - are fundamentally similar - we insert or subtract thoughts from your mind, we strip your will, we emit dread: but we don't throw fireballs or summon demons or huck fistfuls of virus and diseases at you.

    The void - in wow lore or any other that I can think of - has Zero to do with wow-style warlocks. By its very definition, the Void is an absence - in WoW's case - of the Light. It is why we ourselves appear as nothing but a Shadow cast over anything we stand before, it is why our pets are similarly voids of light - fiends without physical form. Void tendrils aren't physical objects (despite Blizzards balance-based choice to make them punchable - presumably this represents mental struggle). Even the ability Void Shift - makes our health pools the opposite, just as we are opposite - antithesis of the Light. The idea of Void has infinitely more to do with Light than it does with Demonology, or Affliction, or Destruction - Void is practically a synonym for Shadow.

    Now, if you wanted to talk about thematic overlap - the warlock spell Fear makes no sense for warlocks to have - that should be a priest spell. Conversely, Devouring Plague should be an Affliction spell - we spriests don't really have anything to do with diseases and plagues, that's warlock thing. I can explain why we have DP however, originally - DP was an Undead Priest-only spell (and it makes tons of sense for the Undead to have Devouring Plague), but then when it was overpowered - Blizzard gave it to all priests - then when they redesigned our class - they made it our finisher.

    So, if you like - we can talk to the GMs and see if they will exchange Fear for Devouring Plague - on the grounds that it makes more sense thematically

    Edit: Also would just like to point out, that Sha very clearly is a shortening of the word Shadow. As in Shadow of Anger, Shadow of Fear, Shadow of Despair - supported not only by their lore / stories / things they say - but also by the fact that they are giant swirling formless shadows. Also, when you get very close to a Sha - your world becomes grey and colourless - as though there wasn't very much Light present. The idea of the world becoming grey is also a common euphemism for severe depression (a psychological, but not physical - condition).
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-11-22 at 10:30 AM.
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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by xSoulx View Post
    I just play whatever class(es) I find compelling and enjoyable...which switches sometimes several times throughout an expansion. (Rogue, Lock, DK, Priest, Mage, Druid, Monk.)
    Demonology is totally cute to play this time around :X

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Let me try to field this one. SNIP
    +1 to this post! Tottally on the money.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Let me try to field this one.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    +1 to this post! Tottally on the money.
    +1 Very well written too, I might add!

  13. #73
    Mechagnome soulyouth's Avatar
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    +1 Very well written Yvaelle

    If I speak the word Pain, you feel it. If I say the word Death - and you are in a weakened state - you die - I didn't hit you in the face with a 12 foot sword, or immolate you in a wave of otherworldly fire - I merely told you that you were dead, and you believed me and stopped pumping your heart.
    I'm a bit of a closet rp player, I love knowing why we are killing this or doing quests for this guy/girl, and love the wording on shadow spells.
    What you said there is what I have always pictured in my mind for those spells, when me mind blast, we merely whisper a word and there head explodes in pain.

    It's why I am really sad, atm with the way shadow players, not talking about dps or class balance, I'm talking the skills we use, mind flay seems so back seat now, I really liked the play style in ICC with 4pc t10 where you could drop mind blast if someone else was bringing replenishment, I really don't like the way orbs and DP work, I stated this on the beta forums but blizzard said they don't take feedback on the way a class "Feels"


    Rant over.
    Last edited by soulyouth; 2012-11-24 at 05:20 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Also would just like to point out, that Sha very clearly is a shortening of the word Shadow. As in Shadow of Anger, Shadow of Fear, Shadow of Despair - supported not only by their lore / stories / things they say - but also by the fact that they are giant swirling formless shadows. Also, when you get very close to a Sha - your world becomes grey and colourless - as though there wasn't very much Light present. The idea of the world becoming grey is also a common euphemism for severe depression (a psychological, but not physical - condition).
    =O MINDBLOWN. I honestly never thought of that and just thought it was some random name blizzard gave them.

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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    If I speak the word Pain, you feel it. If I say the word Death - and you are in a weakened state - you die - I didn't hit you in the face with a 12 foot sword, or immolate you in a wave of otherworldly fire - I merely told you that you were dead, and you believed me and stopped pumping your heart. Even spells like Inner Fire are a common reference to strong Willpower.
    I'm kind of afraid of my own Second Specc after reading this.

    Awesome post.

  16. #76
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Thanks all!
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Look, its much simpler than it sounds even you fail to understand it. Its not about the mini-sha. Its about the fact that most Warlock players play the class cause of it being the dark class. Blizz has introduced the Sha as a new dark feature of the lore which surprisingly appears to be the deeper one so far along with the Old Gods. They tease the locks with a sha tier, but by putting the mini sha to priests, they indirectly elaborate that the sha theme is meant for the priest class. Therefore, a player that plays the game for something more than numbers and practical stuff, wants to play a dark caster and has chosen a warlock, feels heavily disappointed. Its like the Warlock uses all the superficial evil stuff that you see in mainstream movies, while the priest gets all the deeper and mysterious stuff, even spells that have to do with the Void, another supposed "Warlock-theme".
    So because Shadowpriests also get dark things, that makes you sad?

  18. #78
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    I truly did weep tears of Shadow joy / pride reading that.

    Here, here!

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Thanks all!
    10/10 very well written.
    make me wanna level my shadow priest now (not cus they op atm, not at all cough cough)
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  20. #80
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Has anyone managed to obtain the 2h axe from sha of fear? I wanna see if us DKs get some love too with these weapon effects.
    Last edited by Evil Inside; 2012-11-24 at 05:31 AM.
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