RIP WoW? Really?

[bajskorv]

thats an hour and a half a day. not much at all

An hour and a half a day doing boring stuff you hate is 'not much at all'. That's a ridicilous thing to say even if you only like playing one character. If you like to play a mere two that's three hours. This madness can't go on.

[Gniral]

Cataclysm's first tier wasn't bad at all. The Molten front dailies and LFR caused the hate for the expansion.

false, most of the sub loss were due to hard heroics and T11 raids. elitist qq on the forums didnt result in any major loss except from the obvious pre-exp lull.

[borinaria]

No matter what Blizzard does, there's always going to be someone who is going to complain.

[nnelson54]

Congratulations, you have a good guild who doesn't mind carrying someone who doesn't put forth any effort. Most guilds would tell you to piss off because you can't even be bothered to spend a few hours gearing yourself up. Would you like a cookie?

No one in my guild does the dailies, either, except for like one or two people. We cleared MSV the first week in heroic blues/questing greens and now they've moved on to hard modes while I've quit raiding because of my new work schedule and still only one or two of them even bother with the dailies. The dailies are purely optional and valor gear is not required to progress. Not even if you're in some guild rushing for World Firsts. By the time of the World First Will of the Emperor kill the people in the raid would have had enough time to farm enough VP for one piece of gear. Maybe two, if they bought the two cheapest pieces and spent time farming VP the week of the kill when not putting in attempts on the bosses.

If YOU feel YOU have to do all the dailies then that is fine, but it's not Blizzard's fault.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Alright, so I just read a thread over on the WoW official forums. Some guy was yet again complaining about how blizzard has forced him at gunpoint to do dailies, and how majority of players feel the same way and will soon quit. I'm just completely dumbfounded by the lack of common sense here.

Well, Blizzard got what they asked for on the forums. It's like they want to be reminded every day of their ideas of what subscribers are. Now they got exactly what they wanted and have to live with it.

That's the consequence of allowing the mob to control content on the forums.

Went back and searched yesterday to see what a nemesis was doing over there, and it's nice to see she/he/it was finally permanently banned. Zip all posts deleted for every sockpuppet used too (pretty sad to post as socks, trying to come off as a mob against/for something...hmmm). That shows what goes on there, that pro/con can be someone with 3 alts on a troll-a-thon.

More than likely what we're seeing are raiders upset that the only way they can get their piece of gear is to grind (as RNG sucks). Raiders hate grinding, especially this new crop of 2hr or 2 wipe variety. So they'll scream and holler until Blizzard caves in.

But the next time you see a thread with so much commotion, be reminded how many socks escaped the drawers.

[NightZero88]

Absolute nonsense. Maybe if you're in a realm top guild... But a guild that has just killed normal mode bosses? Telling this to their members? Bwahahaha... they need to pull their heads from their asses and stop thinking they're more elitist than they are. You could probably kill all those bosses while still wearing ilvl 450 dungeon blues.

No one in my guild does the dailies, either, except for like one or two people. We cleared MSV the first week in heroic blues/questing greens and now they've moved on to hard modes while I've quit raiding because of my new work schedule and still only one or two of them even bother with the dailies. The dailies are purely optional and valor gear is not required to progress. Not even if you're in some guild rushing for World Firsts. By the time of the World First Will of the Emperor kill the people in the raid would have had enough time to farm enough VP for one piece of gear. Maybe two, if they bought the two cheapest pieces and spent time farming VP the week of the kill when not putting in attempts on the bosses.

If YOU feel YOU have to do all the dailies then that is fine, but it's not Blizzard's fault.

I'll reply to both of you since you both posted basically the same thing. Yes, the TOP guilds can clear normal modes and heroics wearing crap gear. That's why they are the top players. However, the percentage of players that have cleared MSV normal is very small. Hell, there are still guilds that can't down stone guard normal. THOSE people are the ones who need valor gear to help them. And THOSE people are the MAJORITY of the raiding population. Not the people you are saying don't need gear. So yes, it is possible to clear the raids without doing any dailies but not for MOST people. Congratulations, your guild is better than most. But you are a minority in this instance.

[dryankem]

Cataclysm's first tier wasn't bad at all. The Molten front dailies and LFR caused the hate for the expansion.

Actually I don't think that's where the hate came from at all. People wanted harder dungeons and when they got them and had to CC, people bitched that they were too hard. Molten front dailies and LFR were only targets at the end because they ended cata but they were actually well received and it's why MOP has gone in the direction it has (easy dungeons, variety of dailies with phasing, and LFR in full force). It feels like in MOP they have stopped listening to the forum whiners and started look at actual data to support their direction.

There was less content in cata because of the revamp of 1-60, which is why people got bored (hence why people had so many max toons, I had 8 myself). They have slowed the game down again and have given us a ton of content, which is really nice after cata IMO. Cata wasn't bad, but it wasn't my favourite. Wrath was maybe my favourite (first time I really hit level cap so everything was new and exciting) but MOP might pass that as there is so much to do.

[Rochana]

I'll reply to both of you since you both posted basically the same thing. Yes, the TOP guilds can clear normal modes and heroics wearing crap gear. That's why they are the top players.

I don't agree again. The main thing that often sucks in guilds who don't compete or perform as well isn't the people, the guild members, but the leadership of the guild.
A good raidleader and good organisation, good raiding routine and habbits, will go much much further than having pro members. Even with super-pro members and without structure and decent leadership your group's performance will suck.

So this is where the initial post rubbed me wrong. The reason why raidgroups usually have worse progress than others is the leadership of the guild not having a clue what they're doing, and in turn it would become absolutely absurd of them to blame their members for not doing dailies to get (mostly) epic gear that isn't necessary or is just as good as the gear of the bosses that they're going to kill.

Don't you see that something is wrong when you demand your guild to grind stuff to get ilvl 489 pants to be able to kill a raidboss that drops ... 489 pants?

[NightZero88]

I don't agree again. The main thing that often sucks in guilds who don't compete or perform as well isn't the people, the guild members, but the leadership of the guild.
A good raidleader and good organisation, good raiding routine and habbits, will go much much further than having pro members. Even with super-pro members and without structure and decent leadership your group's performance will suck.

So this is where the initial post rubbed me wrong. The reason why raidgroups usually have worse progress than others is the leadership of the guild not having a clue what they're doing, and in turn it would become absolutely absurd of them to blame their members for not doing dailies to get (mostly) epic gear that isn't necessary or is just as good as the gear of the bosses that they're going to kill.

Don't you see that something is wrong when you demand your guild to grind stuff to get ilvl 489 pants to be able to kill a raidboss that drops ... 489 pants?

I don't demand anything of my raiders actually and I am the raid leader. I do expect people to put forth the effort and all of my raiders do but I don't demand it or even ask for it. We all just do it because we know it will help. Also, in 1 week the pants would drop twice if you were extremely lucky. So now you have 2 raiders with 489. If however every raider did the dailies then you would have 10 raiders with 489 pants. Assuming everyone had 463 (which might not be true) originally that would be 52 Ilevel gain in your scenario and 260 Ilevel gain in mine. 260 Ilevel is a fair bit of stats across the entire raid. And while I do completely agree with you that players being smart far outweighs gear, every little bit helps in raids, especially this tier where enrage timers are so tight.

Our first week killing the third boss we beat the enrage by about 5 seconds. The week after we beat it by about a minute. Sure you could argue that it was likely being more comfortable with the fight but you can't tell me that gear didn't have a factor in it.

[nemro82]

WoW died in 2008 when Warhammer Online was released.

[velde046]

I'm not sure about WoW dying, but I fully agree with his situation. Dailies are boring. LFR is terrible. Heroics are too easy and boring. Challenge modes don't give you gear. PvP is a broken mess. If you can't raid in MoP, what FUN method of progressing your character is left? I didn't want to do dailies or LFR, so I stopped playing, because there was nothing else I could do at 90 to progress my character.

All I hear is boohoo I want more loot.... because really I can understand that you think heroics are boring, but that's really where challenges come in... if it's all about the loot then yeah it won't fix your problem. Then again why worry about a bunch of pixels that's not legally your own anyway but something you lease from Blizzard (in a way).

Besides that there are several other things:
- Leveling a Panda
- Leveling a monk
- Running scenarios
- Working on tradeskills
- Running alts
- Achievements
- Soloing old stuff and/or building gear sets
etc.

Well if nothing of that can interest you, then I'm sorry but you're to be pitied and I'd advise you to quit the game right now...

By the way progress is not just getting better gear, it's about getting better at playing your class with which, good gear helps.

[coorsd]

The bottom line, with this many subscriptions, it is impossible to please all people all the time. In general the people of my guild are enjoying the MoP content. We are a social raiding guild and are just getting started in the new raids. we are not in a rush to be first or best, but want to enjoy the content.

People that raid are expected to have certain item level, gems and enchants. Bring their own flasks and food, but beyond that, we do not dictate what people have to do so they can be ready for raiding. There are several paths available to accomplish that. The more paths you choose the better off you will be, but many of our members have families and such and do not have the time to play that the hard core players do.

Personally I enjoy MoP more than Cata. There is a new continent to explore and have fun in.

Have a great day everyone!

[dryankem]

I'm not sure about WoW dying, but I fully agree with his situation. Dailies are boring. LFR is terrible. Heroics are too easy and boring. Challenge modes don't give you gear. PvP is a broken mess. If you can't raid in MoP, what FUN method of progressing your character is left? I didn't want to do dailies or LFR, so I stopped playing, because there was nothing else I could do at 90 to progress my character.

You want to progress your character but you eliminate any way to do that and then blame blizzard for not giving you options. Seriously? AMvelde046 has some other options for you but if you don't like those either than simply you don't like WOW, which is alright but don't expect WOW to suddenly become a different game.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Frankly, the guy who started the thread back on US forum is silly. He complzins about dailies but has 9 toons at level 90.

Yeah, if you had 9 toons and had to grind all of them for rep...now you see the problem.

Was so sick of Molten Front I didn't run my alts through any of reps until towards the end of Cata to level the guild. Otherwise pointless to do.

[theWocky]

I red the post mjolnir1122 was referring to, that guy was bitching on Blizzard for forcing him to do dailies = stealing time from him and his family.
Forcing him to do dailies on all his 9 lvl90's and stealing time from him and his family. What the hell..

I saw that post too - and I saw he called himself a "casual" player. Yeah, it's been what? A month or two? and he has NINE level 90's? Puh-lease. "Casual", my arse.

[nemro82]

Yeah, if you had 9 toons and had to grind all of them for rep...now you see the problem.

Was so sick of Molten Front I didn't run my alts through any of reps until towards the end of Cata to level the guild. Otherwise pointless to do.

sorry but what's the point?
I know members in very top hardcore guilds need to have few raid ready alts, but he said he's casual, Why the fuck he needs to have epics on his toons? when I level my alts I just leave them in green gear, except 1 I try to raid with.

[Shammyspice]

Ehh, people will always be there to complain about something. I wasn't crazy about dailies either, and a month ago it did feel like we were being "forced" to do them every day. After I hit exalted/revered with most of the dailies factions, I just stopped doing them...or take a couple days off and then start up again. It's nice for some extra gold in your pocket and gathers you spirits/greens.

WoW has always been a pretty "tedious" game. WoW is a farming/grind sort of game. Accept it and keep playing or quit and find something else to do. What do you want Blizz to do about you being bored? Go play another game, or take a walk, read a book, watch a movie...there's other things to do out there than play WoW.

I finally caved and started doing pet battles...it's actually quite fun if you enjoy collecting pets. If I'm feeling strapped for things to do in game, I'll sift through my achievement journal and find an achievement to do. Yesterday I started on the achievement "Now I am the Master." I consider these things "projects" and it may take a few hours to do it or a few days, or a few weeks even...but there's actually LOTS to do in this game, you just gotta look for stuff sometimes.

[Proxeneta]

Raiding is the only fun thing about MoP right now, well Arena also but totally unbalanced.

[nyc81991]

WoW itself won't die. However the game may die for people individually. (Meaning they don't feel the same about the game anymore and choose to stop playing).

[katji]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this entire situation. The problem isn't MoP, but whom to blame? People are use to a progressive path that Blizzard set forth, between the end of Burning Crusade to the very end of Cataclysm, on how to obtain reputation with a faction and the gear progression for a character. They're use to that, but give it time and they'll get use to this gaming model, until Blizzard changes it again, then there will be more sadness in the air.