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  1. #1

    Will of the Emperor, which spec, talents and gplyph

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    whatever you use for everything else will probably work fine.

  3. #3
    Nether Tempest: Adds are too spread out to be hit by Frost Bomb or Living Bomb explosions.
    Invocation: You need to move to chase the Courage and people will drop Strength adds on top of you so Rune of Power is inadequate. Not enough regular AOE damage to proc Incanter's Ward.
    Ring of Frost: One of the only times you'll use this tier in a raid, and people can drag adds chasing them into it if they are smart.

    Fire or Frost are more ideal than Arcane as Rune of Power is nonviable.
    You'd think Fire would be much better due to AOE but adds are often a bit too far from each other for easy spreading of Ignite or Pyroblast, though Rage adds are usually up for it at least.

    Glyph Ice Lance as Frost.
    Glyph Evocate because there is unavoidable damage and when would you not?

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Nether Tempest: Adds are too spread out to be hit by Frost Bomb or Living Bomb explosions.
    Invocation: You need to move to chase the Courage and people will drop Strength adds on top of you so Rune of Power is inadequate. Not enough regular AOE damage to proc Incanter's Ward.
    Ring of Frost: One of the only times you'll use this tier in a raid, and people can drag adds chasing them into it if they are smart.

    Fire or Frost are more ideal than Arcane as Rune of Power is nonviable.
    You'd think Fire would be much better due to AOE but adds are often a bit too far from each other for easy spreading of Ignite or Pyroblast, though Rage adds are usually up for it at least.

    Glyph Ice Lance as Frost.
    Glyph Evocate because there is unavoidable damage and when would you not?
    Not sure how you do that fight, but in my 25 man, we have no problem grouping adds ups for aoe. Ring of Frost, roots, and dks with Gorefiend's Grasp to keep them grouped up. I run with scorch for Courage dps on the move, evo glyph, and replace combustion glyph with ffb for the slow on adds. The more frequent combustion s are nice for the constant waves of adds.

  5. #5
    Thanks, thought frost was a better choice and you've confirmed it. So i'll pick Frost with Invo, IL and Evo glyph with last choice being IV or COC glyph, maybe even DF here?

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    I don't run frost for anything but soloing and PvP.

  7. #7
    You misunderstand me, Ciros, I don't think Frost is better here than Fire. You'll usually be able to get at least two targets with inferno blast and your most powerful spread DoT effect (Combustion) caps at three anyway so 2/3 is close enough. Ice Lance hits two targets as well but the second is only harmed for 40% damage.

    There are not usually enough stacked targets for Frost Bomb or Living Bomb AOE, but there are certainly enough for Inferno Blast cleaving and Fire DPS is generally higher than Frost.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    I don't run frost for anything but soloing and PvP.
    why not frost is awesome.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    why not frost is awesome.
    For soloing and PvP. I prefer to use the spec that's performing anywhere between 10 and 30% better (depending on boss) on every fight this tier.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    For soloing and PvP. I prefer to use the spec that's performing anywhere between 10 and 30% better (depending on boss) on every fight this tier.
    they sim much closer than that, I'd say the real issue is that more people are playing fire so it shows.

  11. #11
    I play Frost because it means I get ranked on World of Logs every week

    B)

    That is not a particularly good reason

  12. #12
    With dk grips and other class aoe stuns, frost bomb and frozen orb are pretty awesome, but that's only because of the strategy my guild uses. We have 2 hunters and 2 mages crowdcontrol the 4 Rages before every gas phase which allows us to dps the boss more often. When gas is over and the next adds start to come out, we're aoe'ing 8 Rages at once.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    they sim much closer than that, I'd say the real issue is that more people are playing fire so it shows.
    Frost should be markedly worse than fire on will. If attacking adds, because you have to stack the debuff to do full damage on each add, if attacking boss, because you can't multi-dot like fire can (assuming you're using frost bomb, which you really should be)

  14. #14
    Our raid has DKs who do a good job corralling the adds:

    Glyphs:
    Fire Blast
    Combustion

    Talents:
    Scorch
    Temporal Shield
    Ring of Frost
    Living Bomb
    Rune of Power

    I could see using PoM instead of Scorch here but it would require impeccable positioning, especially difficult if you go with Rune of Power. I chose Temporal Shield for the gas, since that's the only real damage I take. Ring of Frost for adds, Living Bomb is by far your best AoE spell here and Rune of Power can be used to great effect for 95% of the fight. Invocation is a good alternative.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    they sim much closer than that, I'd say the real issue is that more people are playing fire so it shows.
    The real issue is fire is more suited for these fights and it scales FAR better with gear upgrades. The gap between the 2 specs will continue to widen until they do something to improve scale factors for frost. Every item level gained is a net gain for fire. That and sims don't mean jack when there is this much actual raid data to extrapolate from.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Frost should be markedly worse than fire on will. If attacking adds, because you have to stack the debuff to do full damage on each add, if attacking boss, because you can't multi-dot like fire can (assuming you're using frost bomb, which you really should be)
    You really shouldn't be using Frost Bomb because it does not proc your best in slot trinket off Elegon and comes out to no loss of DPS to use a different one.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    You really shouldn't be using Frost Bomb because it does not proc your best in slot trinket off Elegon and comes out to no loss of DPS to use a different one.
    Assuming you have that trinket, then you are *technically* right

    I would argue that you should simply not use that trinket in the first place because Frost bomb makes our rotation that much cleaner, more predictable, and less RNG reliant.

    Not to mention if you're working on Will, you've probably just killed elegon for the first time and the odds of having that trinket are low.

  18. #18
    I've been using the other two over Frost Bomb for several weeks since getting the trinket on the second possible chance and it is in no way even remotely difficult, and an obvious DPS increase over using a worse trinket.

  19. #19
    Note that I specifically did NOT say easier.

    This is someone asking for advice about which spec to play, in a guild that has not killed will of the emperor. They are obviously not overly comfortable or educated about mages and as such I think my advice is prudent.

  20. #20
    If using Frost Bomb lowers DPS and does not make it easier, why would you recommend it?
    Better they start learning about it now in preparation for having the right gear, especially as the alternative is going Fire which is apparently a spec they do not usually play.

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