"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
Friedrich Nietzsche
No, let's not throw that out. Nearly everyone raids, whether it's in LFR or normals or heroic. Throwing raiding out of a PvE discussion is idiocy. It's like throwing battlegrounds and arenas out of PvP discussion and focusing entirely on Halaa.
And? That will not happen overnight if you're some sort of casual player who only has an hour to play.- Heroics are a good option, but they will get you to 463 ilvl maximum, once you've gotten a drop for every single gear slot.
What do you care for ilevel if you're not a raider?- Professions will give you an enchant of some sort that doesn't count towards ilvl. Some professions give you a trinket, so that's one gear slot worth of progression that you can get via professions.
What PvE progression? What are you raising PvE ilevel for, you just said you don't raid!- PvP gives you PvP upgrades. It's a separate minigame that is ideally supposed to have no bearing on PvE progression, much like pet battles. I realize that, unfortunately, this is not the case. Blizzard knows this aspect of the game doesn't appeal to many players, so let's ignore it too.
Oh, so Sha of Anger and MSV are back in now. If you're against RNG-based progression, you're quite emphatically playing the wrong game.Do I get a lucky Sha of Anger drop? Do I get something from MSV LFR? These are the only avenues for getting to the 470 mark required for HoF and beyond. If I log in and want to do something that isn't RNG-based to progress my character, it's going to be dailies.
Heroic dungeons ARE the alternative to doing dailies. You don't get gear from VP, and you won't come anywhere close to VP capping if you only do the bare minimum of dailies required.What I am asking for is to make heroic dungeons an alternative to doing dailies. That would at least please the portion of the population who enjoy doing dungeons, and does not take anything away from those who like doing daily quests.
I get it, you just want to go back to the good old "spam dungeons for JP and VP and get purples" model, so you can get into HoF LFR immediately. Sorry, but that model is not sustainable. It's a mindless grind with zero variation, you just spam Find Group until you're done gearing, then sit around whining there's nothing to do. If LFR is the pinnacle of your PvE progression, then you'll have to delay it a few weeks while you farm MSV LFR for some more loot.
You know, how raiding has always worked.
If you actually read blue posts, they explained it. Head/shoulder enchants will be necessary throughout the entire expansion. No one will be doing GL/Klaxxi for gear in 5.4, but everyone will still need shoulder enchants. They removed enchant grinds because they would force people to run outdated, abandoned content that was designed for group play.What content was denied to people by not having head or shoulder enchants? And yet this was explicitly given by Blizzard as a reason to abolish daily quest rep grinds. Does this make any sense?
When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
And queue gif of dude's head exploding. You just blew my fucking mind; I never even considered that all you need for gear is Revered and Honored. Wow I feel like a fool for getting mad at dailies. And now, off to my lair to do the math to see what days I can skip and still not slack behind on gear...
So your suggestion is I have something to do on Tuesday and nothing for the rest of the week?
I log in on Tuesday, I do one round of weekly quests, I do LFR, and......then what do you propose? I run heroics repeatedly nonstop until my eyes bleed? I could do challenge modes if my friends are on.
There's no problem to resolve. There's tons of content, you don't HAVE to log in every day. Stop acting like Blizzard is forcing you when it's a completely self enforced "requirement."
How is this different? How is one needed but the other not? Is there something intrinsic about helmet enchants that make raids impossible without them? Or are they just a stat boost that helps make things easier, much like valor gear would do.
---------- Post added 2012-11-14 at 09:39 AM ----------
Nearly everyone didn't even buy the expansion, so I don't think you've got fact on your side with this line of reasoning.
If Blizzard were to come out and say that daily quests were their solution to getting rid of welfare epics, I'd be ok with that. I could wrap my head around the idea that welfare epics deteriorate the quality of the game experience. But they're not saying that at all. This is just as casual a game as it's ever been, but they've just pulled a bait-and-switch move where people need to do something entirely different to get the same rewards they got in the past.What PvE progression? What are you raising PvE ilevel for, you just said you don't raid!
Then again, I've had one foot out the door this whole expansion. Maybe I'm not the kind of customer Blizzard wants in their game anyway.
valor gear is not going to work like it did in cata. it wont suddenly get upgraded to the next tier, so unlocking those vendors is not going to net you any advantage past the current patch. so therefore, no, they are not alike.
in patch 5.1 there are EVEN MORE DAILIES COMING!!! 2 new factions (one horde, one alliance) and to get the 490-something ilvl gear from them, you'll have to do more dailies!!!
is it required, NO! you can get the same ilvl from heart of fear and terrace of endless spring LFR. how do you get into that LFR, by doing heroic 5 mans to get into MSV, then by doing MSV to get into HoF/Toes. you do not have to do any dailies if you do not want to.
dailies and valor gear are meant for people that DO NOT RAID OR DUNGEON!!
if you either raid, or dungeon, you should only be running dailies IF YOU WANT TO!! not because your militant guild master/raid leader tells you to.
<insert witty signature here>
There was a decent comment I saw on WOW Insider, a dev posted the thought of having your first dungeon of the day add rep but that's it (personally would like that decision).
As for dailies being mandatory they really aren't, I've done half a dozen days worth and have the tillers and Kalaxxi to rev (Kalaxxi just shy), heck I had Kalaxxi to Honoured just by finishing the quests in the area. I'm sitting at an ilvl of 365 (all dungeon or LFR gear) and have yet to spend a single VP. I'm getting close to having to spend my vp (I have 2k) but I can easily buy an item or 2 from the Kalaxxi (OS if I need to) and then wait for 5.1 to bring the VP upgrades and I'd never have to work on a faction again if I don't want to.
If your someone that has to cap every week and are in a fairly decent progression guild than yes you probably want to do your dailies (but that's your choice to want to progress that fast) but most of those people are likely done with reps or have enough open to spend every point collected so far anyways.
So much this.
I just wish people would do what they want in the game.
If the game does not work exactly how you want right now I am sorry about that (I truly am), and things will change over time.
I do not 100% pretend than the system is perfect (and neither does Blizzard) but its worth remember every single change Blizzard will gate 100% hate and loath from someone somewhere (there was even a Rant about how they should not give the Cinder Cub pet money to Charity as they are just using it as a PR stunt).
But I know one thing I LOVE logging on and having a CHOICE of things to do, (Dailies, Heroics, Challenge Modes, LFR, Normal Raids (uber casual) and PvP).
All of the above help with PvE character progression but in say WotLK it was do daily heroic and raid.
No thanks I love where we are now.
When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these?! Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
I am the lucid dream
Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh
I can back this up, Everyone has an Opinion, I understand this more that others. However it does get a little annoying when people say keep moaning over and over about Rep grinds and dailys. If you want the EXTRA roll, I belive you should work for it. Dont you think so too? As for REP. I've only done the Halfhill stuff, Nothing beyond that. Nothing on my 2 Alts. Skiped everything and doing just great.The solution is already in the game, but people just aren't paying attention to it.
Dailies do not need to be done every day. If you want to do them every day, go for it, but you do not need to. A lot of slack has been built into the system to ensure that you can skip a few days every so often (or even an entire week if you like), and you won't fall behind in any significant way
Actually the point of playing the game is to have fun, you don't have to be competitive to have fun in a sub-based MMO. If you are competitive than Arena and Heroic raids are the places for you (or even extreme soloing or challenge modes) but if you were a true competitor I don't think an RPG MMO would be a good place for you as you are at the mercy of the game balances, plus RNG and it's truly not skill vs skill.
1. All other activities are single player based.
2. Best single player games do it better. They have better graphic, better controls, better story.
3. You dont have to pay a subscription to play them.
4. By playing a single player game in a place that is supposed to be about group experience, challenge (group activites are always harder) and socializing, you promote this kind of stuff by your own money, which is disgusting.
TLDR: go play your single player game elsewhere.
Yes, it's not an ideal competitive environment, but it has potentially a lot of parcitipants. It also could be a lot better if people actually cared about MMO actually being a MMO, not a single player game that does everything they want.
Not all other activities are single player based; scenarios, random dungeons, BGs, LFR and normal raids are all multiplayer. Heck you can even quest and level together. The point of an MMO is to have other people online, that's it. This game is basically facebook for gamers.
Besides when did I ever say that not being competitive is the same as not being social? Also when did I say that I wasn't competitive? I just said that you don't have to be competitive to play this game.
Ah-Ah. You need those epics and normal experience to get into heroic raiding guild in the first place. For normal experience you have to do pugs (which requires those epics aswell) or join a lesser guild first. Either way if you want to be ready before the next raid tier is released you'd better do both dailies and LFR.