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  1. #61
    There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

    A proper reforging tool utilizes one and only one method—it calculates every possible combination of reforges, multiplies the resulting stat totals by the given weights, and picks whichever combination yields the highest total value. The reason that sites like AMR often suggest reforging slightly under the hit cap is because that particular combination yielded the highest result. That's it. And for the all the love that WoWReforge seems to be getting, WoWReforge does not utilize this method.

    Now, whether or not the stat weights that you're inputting accurately reflect the change in DPS that you'll see from increasing or decreasing those stats is another matter entirely. Tools like SimCraft or ShadowCraft can probably give you a better set of weights to use than whatever AMR is suggesting by default. But rest assured, AMR will tell you how to optimally reforge your gear for any given weights.

  2. #62
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    askmrrobot and wowreforge do EXACTLY the same given the same settings.

    askmrrobot's default settings is to sim for the highest number no matter what, it would be the same as if you set your caps in wowreforge to "close to" instead of "at least".

    Again you can tell askmrrobot to act like wowreforge does as default by clicking "Force Hit/Exp Caps" in options.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    askmrrobot and wowreforge do EXACTLY the same given the same settings.

    askmrrobot's default settings is to sim for the highest number no matter what, it would be the same as if you set your caps in wowreforge to "close to" instead of "at least".

    Again you can tell askmrrobot to act like wowreforge does as default by clicking "Force Hit/Exp Caps" in options.
    You are mistaken. Using the exact same stat weights that I use in AMR and the "close to" setting for hit and expertise caps, WoWReforge will "optimize" me at 2552 expertise and 2566 hit—over the cap for both, and not the optimal reforge in any case.

  4. #64
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Seems like you are right, it will indeed just get as close as possible without regard for the score.

    Anyways I'm using AMR myself and it's my preferred one.

  5. #65
    i stopped reading after i saw the words mr. robot.

    Post constructively, please
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-11-18 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #66
    Pit Lord aztr0's Avatar
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    Depends on the class. As for affliction warlocks not needing to be hit capped. Sure you don't need to be at exactly 15%, getting close to it does not hurt. The lower your hit, the more varied your DPS will be. On one boss you might never miss, on another boss you may continue to miss. You really do not want to be missing crucial spells like Haunt during a burn phase on several occasions as that will put a dent into your DPS and raid success.

  7. #67
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    No you do not need to be hit capped.

    Hit is just a stat like any other, if with your specific gear other stats woudl grant more benefit for you than hit capping, then you should take them.

    Hit capping being necessary is a myth by people who dont understand stat weights or probablity.
    No game will ever kill wow. Though Blizard themselves are making a pretty damm good attempt lately.

    THE FIRST RULE OF BRAWLERS GUILD IS YOU DO NOT GET INVITED TO BRAWLERS GUILD.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Seems like you are right, it will indeed just get as close as possible without regard for the score.

    Anyways I'm using AMR myself and it's my preferred one.
    The difference is largely negligible to be sure. It is kind of pedantic to quibble over a few equivalence points, but I just don't understand the AMR hate around here! It's a great tool.

  9. #69
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    The difference is largely negligible to be sure. It is kind of pedantic to quibble over a few equivalence points, but I just don't understand the AMR hate around here! It's a great tool.
    I'm totally agreeing with you, for some reason AMR gets a lot of slack for no reason at all.

    It does have some errors though, at least for one of my specs it suggests a wrong metagem - mastery over stamina (DK Blood)

  10. #70
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dethlyhallows View Post
    I began using Mr. Robot for a new class I leveled up and it said that you do not need to be fully hit capped. As long as your under 0.20% your ok. (0.2%>0.19%). Is this right?
    It comes down to if you want RNG to decide your DPS.

    It used to be with Kevyne's sub-class he never had to worry about missing targets. But now he's under spell hit cap and will miss. When missing on a hammer and not getting a mana or heal returned, it's more than just a 0.20% loss...worse can happen like dying (and for a healer in critical situations, a raid wipe).

    So if you love RNG go under hitcap. If you don't trust the bugger, get it just over.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  11. #71
    pretty much any spell caster needs to be capped, but some melee its not that big of deal.

  12. #72
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    A proper reforging tool utilizes one and only one method—it calculates every possible combination of reforges, multiplies the resulting stat totals by the given weights, and picks whichever combination yields the highest total value. The reason that sites like AMR often suggest reforging slightly under the hit cap is because that particular combination yielded the highest result. That's it.
    This is not true. Calculating every possible combination of reforges takes way too long (depends on gear, spec, class, but it CAN take way too long anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by darthshatner View Post
    You are mistaken. Using the exact same stat weights that I use in AMR and the "close to" setting for hit and expertise caps, WoWReforge will "optimize" me at 2552 expertise and 2566 hit—over the cap for both, and not the optimal reforge in any case.
    /shrug

    See below for proof it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Forgive my indulgence, but can I have the proof anyway?
    Sure! It's 3:05 A.M. but I am nothing if not a master of wasting time and doing things other than what I should be doing (there needs to be an in-game title for that).

    Setup:
    • Early Mists stat weights from SimC-502 using default Pre-raid profile on 25,000 iterations (I was in greens at the time and figured basing it on my gear was useless)
    • Ask Mr Robot (the gem in my chestpiece is locked because I don't want to bother to change it at this time of night just to prove a point)
    • Old exe-based app from early Cata. Source was the EJ Rogue forums. I could probably find the topic again if people really want it for some reason.
    • WoWReforge.com
    • I could use the in-game addon here, but I really don't care that much.

    Ask Mr Robot (setup, results, and AMR score): 132817

    WoWReforge (results): http://i.imgur.com/bs7os.png
    Old Desktop App (results): http://i.imgur.com/cFbbg.png
    AMR Score for either of the two above (they calculated the same set of reforges): 132850

    So yeah, the other two reforging programs win, like I said.

    Disclaimer: Don't get me wrong here. I'm not an "AMR hater", not remotely. AMR is an invaluable tool that saves me a lot of time in spreadsheets. I recommend it to all my friends (in fact, I was the one who got my whole guild using it). My point here is that it is not actually perfect and that there are ways to get closer to perfect if you are obsessive about that kind of thing.
    Last edited by Simca; 2012-11-19 at 05:48 PM.
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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    My mage disagrees.
    /facepalm


    really???.......

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