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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by tombstoner139 View Post
    The people who want to get rid of unions, also want to get rid of other government over sight agencies like the FDA.
    Unions have a place in business. proper regulation is also needed to ensure good high quality safe products.
    simply thinking that companies will do so because the free market wills it is living a lie.
    History has shown that Free markets have no regard for consumer safety. the seat belt was fought tooth and nail
    by the auto industry. the recent spinal meningitis deaths of 33 people is due to lack of oversight and proper quality control measures.
    That sort of stuff is cheaper in the short run but more expensive in the long run, only if something happens and the owner ship was incompetent or greedy.
    this is why we need organization like the FDA, OSHA and unions.
    You can argue for the necessity of the FDA and OSHA if that's what you wish.

    Unions are another story entirely. I can think of no valid reason for their continued existence in their form right now.

    That is to say, I don't have a problem with employees' right to collective representation, but the idea that an employer should be allowed to be hamstrung by a union in the form of a closed shop is bullshit.

    Right to work is the way to go.

  2. #202
    The Patient Jetstream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    Today's first world problem: Some candy brand is going bankrupt.

    In other news, 5000 more children starved to death today.
    And some day we'll all remember that "someone else has it worse" doesn't mean that their problems are irrelevant.

    How about this: 18,000 people are out of a job. That good enough for ya mate?


    Anyway, OP, twinkies aren't going anywhere. Some other food company (probably Kraft) will buy them and they'll go back into production like nothing ever changed.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 01:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveon View Post
    If this was meant as a Marie Antoinette reference, then it's one of the best humorous historical references I've seen on this forum!
    The best part, of course, being that Marie Antoinette never, ever said that.

  3. #203
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    You can argue for the necessity of the FDA and OSHA if that's what you wish.

    Unions are another story entirely. I can think of no valid reason for their continued existence in their form right now.
    How about the abuse that WalMart workers get?
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    How about the abuse that WalMart workers get?
    Walmart maintains one of the highest turnover rates of employees in the world. Isn't it obvious that their employees don't like how they're treated and, thus, refuse to work for them?

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    How about the abuse that WalMart workers get?
    If WalMart employees are being abused, why aren't the unions stopping it?

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by jaimelannister View Post
    If WalMart employees are being abused, why aren't the unions stopping it?
    No such thing as unions in Walmart.

  7. #207
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    They did it you guys! The baker's union and Hostess are going to mediation to try and work out their differences to save the company. Hopefully they can get this sorted, Hostess stops trying to push to pay their enormous CEO bonuses despite nearly liquidating this week, and those 18,000 jobs can be saved.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 03:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jaimelannister View Post
    If WalMart employees are being abused, why aren't the unions stopping it?
    Because like Target, Wal-Mart does not take kindly to talks of unionization. I don't know if they go as far as Target, who will flat out fire you for mentioning unions, but there is a reason there hasn't been a successful union movement at the store yet.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-11-19 at 08:13 PM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    They did it you guys! The baker's union and Hostess are going to mediation to try and work out their differences to save the company. Hopefully they can get this sorted, Hostess stops trying to push to pay their enormous CEO bonuses despite nearly liquidating this week, and those 18,000 jobs can be saved.
    It's laughable that companies would pay bonuses when a company declares bankruptcy.

    I think it's probably in the workers' best interests if the company DOES liquidate. That means some other bakery will pick up the Hostess (or at least Twinkie) bran name(s). If management is that incompetent then emerging from another bankruptcy won't save shit.

    Because like Target, Wal-Mart does not take kindly to talks of unionization. I don't know if they go as far as Target, who will flat out fire you for mentioning unions, but there is a reason there hasn't been a successful union movement at the store yet.
    Walmart has gone so far as to shut down entire stores when unionization was imminent.

  9. #209
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaimelannister View Post
    If WalMart employees are being abused, why aren't the unions stopping it?
    Because there's a grand total of 1 walmart store that has managed to successfully unionize and not get shut down or intimidated into deunionizing?

  10. #210
    The Lightbringer Kouki's Avatar
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    Would be soooo funny if after the nuclear wars Twinkies not bottle caps are money.

    Im going to go put my money in twinkies while the scrub nubs put it in gold and silver.
    -Scrapbot stole my sig-

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Kouki View Post
    Would be soooo funny if after the nuclear wars Twinkies not bottle caps are money.

    Im going to go put my money in twinkies while the scrub nubs put it in gold and silver.
    Gold doesn't tarnish and is elemental... so it lasts forever.

    Twinkies are a spongecake.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    How about the abuse that WalMart workers get?
    I'm unaware of policies at WalMart that constitute what could reasonably be termed "abuse". In a large organization, people will sometimes act outside the boundaries of policy, but that's not really the company's fault.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by jaimelannister View Post
    If WalMart employees are being abused, why aren't the unions stopping it?
    What other's have said... WalMart is VERY anti-union and any talk is instantly quashed... they know damn-well that they have crossed many lines that a Union would not allow.

    This, incidentally, is also why WalMart's plans to open up in Germany fell through. They refused to pay all the employee rights that law demands of them.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 12:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Gold doesn't tarnish and is elemental... so it lasts forever.

    Twinkies are a spongecake.
    The sarcasm is very weak with this one...
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    The sarcasm is very weak with this one...
    Text communication is notoriously inefficient at conveying nuances of language.

    Also I fully support Walmart's anti-union stance. At least in non-RTW states.

  15. #215
    There's a dumb story out today about how Hostess execs are getting bonuses and how supposedly horrible it is. I call it a dumb article because it doesn't begin to explain why they are getting bonuses nor about why its a good thing. So I thought I'd nutshell it here.

    In the corporate world, they have something called "Stay Bonuses".

    When a company is basically getting liquidated, top execs naturally start looking to jump ship because there's is no future in their current job. If a mass exodus of the top execs is allowed to occur, it plays havoc with the process of winding down the company. Expertise is needed to help wind the company down and, perhaps more importantly, to preserve the assets knowledgebase that will be sold off to other companies. This expertise is only going to be found within the company.

    A specific example would be twinkie manufacturing and distribution. The expertise in the manufacturing, merchandising, and delivering twinkies to the public is a valuable expertise that other companies WILL pay for. But if the top execs all jump ship, that expertise is simply LOST, and the value of the assets of Hostess drops, and that can costs several millions of dollars in lost revenue as you wind down.

    As an example, Hostess might be able to recover $40 million by selling their expertise on twinkies to a buyer. But if all the top execs jump ship, the buyer won't pay much of anything beyond the rights to the brand. Further, it will disrupt the process of winding down, making it more inefficient and more costly as all the expertise has left.

    So Hostess asks a judge if it can pay top execs a "Stay Bonus". A stay bonus is paid out IF the exec stays with the company all the way to the end.

    In this case, Hostess is asking to be able to pay $1.8 million to keep 18 execs on-board, which will ultimately result in a profit when they can sell their expertise to a buyer down the road. This money could ultimately help the workers out as they help wind down operations. They can keep more people on that otherwise would get let go.

    Of course, the liberal mainstream press explains NONE of this, and just trashes Hostess and makes them look like the bad guys. "Top execs get big bonuses! Greedy jerks!" is all they say.

    If you listen to the mainstream press, you just get dumber with its inane class warfare.

    http://gma.yahoo.com/bankrupt-hostes...opstories.html

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Expertise is needed to help wind the company down and, perhaps more importantly, to preserve the assets knowledgebase that will be sold off to other companies. This expertise is only going to be found within the company.
    the same expertise that ran the company into the ground in the first place? yessir, that's one hell of an asset right there.

    oh, yeah, we were pinning all the blame on the union... it surely couldnt have anything to do with the company failing to fund its pensions for years, which they were contractually obligated to do. greedy bastards working there for 20 or 30 years and expecting the retirement they were promised. entitlements, rabble rabble, damned liberal media

  17. #217
    funny how their profit has been dropping for years now and the announcement of shutdown actually caused them to have a supply & demand problem.


    gotta love the herd mentality of western cultures....

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    the same expertise that ran the company into the ground in the first place? yessir, that's one hell of an asset right there.

    oh, yeah, we were pinning all the blame on the union... it surely couldnt have anything to do with the company failing to fund its pensions for years, which they were contractually obligated to do. greedy bastards working there for 20 or 30 years and expecting the retirement they were promised. entitlements, rabble rabble, damned liberal media
    I explained it already, so all I can tell you is that you do not know what you are talking about. But I can understand it, emotions can trump logic. Class warfare is a powerful breeding ground for emotions trumping logic or common sense.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    I explained it already, so all I can tell you is that you do not know what you are talking about. But I can understand it, emotions can trump logic. Class warfare is a powerful breeding ground for emotions trumping logic or common sense.
    actually i do know what i am talking about. if you want to prove me wrong leave the "class warfare" rhetoric in toolbag. none of what you said addressed the fact that they never funded the pensions, or that their demands of the union was that they forgot about the pensions on top of paycuts - after they had already accepted lower salaries

  20. #220
    Let's point some things out. The company went through seven CEO's. The workers last year had their pensions cut. The CEO while the company went into bankrupted asked for a 1.8 million dollar bonus. This was a clear drive to drive the company into the ground. It's not even accurate that "No more twinkies" will be here.

    Why? Because CNN has reported over 112 serious buyers have contacted the company to BUY it's label and name. Where is this illusion that the unions created this. The workers pay was slashed. They refused to work under horrible conditions. Google the article and you'll find the full information. This is

    This is not the case of bad unions. It's very low pay and extras cut so the CEO's could make money

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