I hope the rep situation doesn't change...

[Deleted]

And again you didn't understand what I was saying at all. It seems like you are looking for something in my comment that isn't there. So I will say it one more time.

It is very simple and straight foward. "If you want to spend your Valor Points on gear you Need to do dailys".

You don't "Need" the gear to do anything. But to spend your Valor points (that you collect over time on their own) you Need to do dailys.

It is that simple. Don't read into something I am not saying.

Pretty universal fact that you need to do something if you want something. What's your point, though?

[Gurbz]

"If you want to spend your Valor Points on gear you Need to do dailys".

Ok. That is mostly factually correct. Although you can reach honored with the Klaxxi without doing a single daily. And humans in a high enough level guild can reach honored with the Shado-Pan as well without doing any dailies. Also, once 5.1 comes out (possible as soon as this Tuesday though the following week is more likely because of the US holiday) the gear upgrade system will let you spend all the valor you want.

I think Fenix's point in response to yours can be summed up as "And?! How is that a bad thing?"

[Xeraxis]

And again you didn't understand what I was saying at all. It seems like you are looking for something in my comment that isn't there. So I will say it one more time.

It is very simple and straight foward. "If you want to spend your Valor Points on gear you Need to do dailys".

You don't "Need" the gear to do anything. But to spend your Valor points (that you collect over time on their own) you Need to do dailys.

It is that simple. Don't read into something I am not saying.

No there are other ways to increase your rep. Also the Klaxxi and Golden Lotus should be honored just from questing so you can still purchase items from them without ever doing a daily.

[Kujako]

But why do people feel they need to do them? It seems its down to bad design again.

So if I suffer from OCD and feel I must kill every mob I come across, would that also be bad design? It is not the games fault people cant figure out how to simply not do dailies or to limit the number of dailies they do.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 09:47 PM ----------

Ok. That is mostly factually correct.

But not for long. Next patch you can spend the points to upgrade your dungeon & raid gear.

[mosely]

If you want to go see a baseball game in the stadium, you have to buy a ticket. Should we nerf tickets and just let you wear a t-shirt with the team's logo on it and let you in for free?

Things that you want always have a cost that is a necessity. However, the key term is "want". "Want" denotes that the item in question is not in itself a necessity, but simply a perk. If you want perks, sometimes you have to do things you may or may not get the most enjoyment out of.

I'm sorry, but I agree with Blizzard's stance on this, and before the expansion I was just like you...moaning and groaning about all the dailies and Valor gear being tied to them. But, after actually using the system, it's really not so bad as long as you know how to make it work. Don't go overboard. I mean, heck, the second they put some epics at Honored they made this system pretty much PERFECT. Tabards were, in a way, overpowered. You;re getting reputation for gear in a place that is giving you gear already. This way makes both rewarding in their own way, which means you can pick and choose how you want to obtain gear.

So my point stands as previously stated. If you don't need the gear, and the system is optional, then too bad if you want to spend your Valor but not do dailies. Do dailies or don't spend Valor. Just like buy a ticket or don't go see that game in the stadium. It's not hard.

I'd just like to point out that this is Blizzard's CURRENT stance on gating Valor gear. Their stance was very different in previous expansions, and is certainly liable to change again in the future (a very likely possibility given the community feedback). To use Blizzard's stance to justify something is kind of pointless, given that all of their design changes are basically experiments in progress that can still either succeed or fail. Nobody on the planet knows how to maintain a 10m+ subscriber base in a MMORPG because this is all new territory. Blizzard executives may have a better idea than most people, but they're certainly capable of being wrong.

As to your analogy, suppose that, for all of your life, you could get into a baseball game for free just by wearing your team's t-shirt. Then, one day, someone decides they're going to make you also pay for a ticket to get in. Would this not be a valid cause for complaints from the fanbase?

[Deleted]

I like how you insult people with opposite viewpoints in addition to IGNORING THE ARGUMENT completely by calling them bads, wrong, and stupid. You are quite a piece of work. Then again being ignorant is pretty easy.

I can't believe how easy it is to troll people on MMO-C. If anyone else wants to step forward and act like an adult instead of a COD player like Hooch please step forward so we can ignore the obvious troll.

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 02:54 PM ----------



Just do yourself a favor and don't respond to obvious troll posts from known trolls. Look at his post history. He thinks he's some master debater.

Your post added absolutely nothing to the discussion, yet you want to call me out for trolling? Get a grip. I replied to most points that have been raised in disagreement to my original post, that is hardly ignoring the "argument" against.

Feel free to add valid points to the discussion, otherwise, leave this to the adults.

[Noujou]

The only items you need to be exalted for are cosmetic, mounts etc... the rest is at honoured/revered, and even they are useless by the time you get to the standing anyway.

this is not true, i learned this first hand, that a few of your pre-raid BiS items are quest rewards for hitting exalted with the respective factions

[Deleted]

WoW isn't a job. It's a game. It should feel like one. There shouldn't be anything mandatory <- IT IS mandatory to do dailies, otherwise you feel like you've missed out on a lot of bonus ways of gearing, your gear progression is slower than everyone else, you feel bad for not playing enough. That's a NO NO for a video game, let alone an MMO centered about progressing your character.

WoW isn't a job - you don't get paid each month so don't compare Blizz to an employer.. we don't get money for doing dailies, we PAY money to be able to play a game, not do dailies. Just because you have no issues with grinding your day off doesn't mean everyone else should agree with you or keep quiet. Stop being so self-centered.

The whole "WoW isn't a job" argument is so ridiculous... So what, you want everything handed to you with no effort at all because you pay for the game? I'm sorry but that's not how games work, go back and play Minecraft...

[AiAtola]

How many alts do you have?

Alts are serious business.

[Deleted]

this is not true, i learned this first hand, that a few of your pre-raid BiS items are quest rewards for hitting exalted with the respective factions

Pre raid BiS... You can do raids in heroic dungeon gear, and get the raid gear from raiding. Who cares about pre-raid BiS?

[Windfury]

Wrong.

Firstly, you have a bad case of selective reading and misunderstanding text. As I said, and I guess i'll have to repeat myself. It has nothing to do with the way I play and the way others play, the main point is very clear, the dailies are optional, 100% optional. The raiders, alts and socials in any guild find the situation the same, and again it's very simple, the dailies make no difference to progression. Normal raids are cleared in heroic blues and some boe's from the ah, not a hint of dailies is needed for that.

Look who's talking, you're still replying to me twisting what I say and totally misunderstanding everything because you literally do not understand playstyles different to your own.

Yes, dailies are option, every single thing in the game is optional. But if you want to do other optional things in game (in my case be a crafter) they are not optional.

Secondly, there are plenty of working adults who play wow, if you can't manage your time then that's an issue you have to deal with. You are not "behind" because you can't do optional dailies, it would make no difference if you could do them or not.

What absolutely condescending garbage. Why yes my problem is clearly that I'm choosing to spend time at work or with my family rather than doing dailies. My bad. This one again demonstrates how little perspective or understanding of other people's lifestyles you have.

And yes I am behind. I have absolutely lost my raid spot because I can't keep up with people who can play more. My guild has expectations around dailies/coins that I can't meet. If yours doesn't that's great for you. But I personally am behind. Once again everyone is not you.

Next, your point about crafting. Seriously, the standing required is honoured, that is a complete minimum of effort, and again,

Unless you're a tailor , in which case you need exalted with August Celestials and you need revered with Golden Lotus to even start grinding that. Various other crafting patterns aren't available until revered (Blacksmithing for example).

OPTIONAL, the items crafted are boe, just buy them? They are dirt cheap now too, because again, the ilvl is useless now. Wrong, and again, OPTIONAL, you don't have to, you don't have to get them on any char, you again could just buy them from the ah. The points you make just highlight more, the fact that all of these dailies are a simple case of "do or do not".

Once again you are demonstrating you have no idea or ability to understand how other people play. There are people in this game who play because of the professions, these are the crafters. We enjoy using our professions, making things, selling things, and engaging in that side of gameplay. It is an entire sub game to wow much as pvp or raiding is for other people. How does 'lol buy it off the ah' help those people? The point is we want to make the things, get the patterns etc. And once again I will repeat that for those people dailies are as mandatory as you can get in a game that's entirely optional in the first place.

Lastly, where and how are dailies the core focus of the game, where are you getting that from? The amount of content in the game is vast, and the only thing you can see is dailies? Somebody should tell Blizzard that dungeons, raids and arenas (and all of the other content) is missing, clearly some sort of bug. And the point you make about not liking quests at all is laughable. Why would you play an MMORPG? That's the whole point of these games. Every single MMORPG game on the market is quest based.

And yet I have never ever quested before this xpac. I can't access raids without doing dailies to meet my guilds requirements. Yes I am arenaing, but there's no point really past cap for me so that's an hour of play a week. Dungeons are pointless past 460 ilevel. I'd love to be using my professions more but hey I need more rep for that. Every other minute I play is spent doing fucking dailies because my playtime is limited and I'd like to try and catch up eventually. For me (and I realise this isn't the case for everyone, but this comes back to my point of there being different people with different playstyles) there is less to do than ever before. I'm bored and over it by the time I log on because I feel like I'm endlessly doing unenjoyable things with no end in sight in order to maybe eventually be able to do the things I do like.

[matters]

The majority of players have been asking Blizzard for quite some time to bring back the feel of Vanilla or TBC. There were an overload of threads on fansites and the official forums explaining why Vanilla or TBC were the good ol' days and why WoW is ruined. People whined and complained saying the game was too easy or that you could take a fresh max level character and have them ready for end game content in the matter of a few hours. The majority of people whined as certain 'grindy' achievements were nerfed or taken out, it was clear that the players obviously wanted to work for their gear or reputations in order to better their characters.

Blizzard answered the cries of thousands of players by making MoP a grindfest, you know similar to the glory days of Vanilla or TBC. What do the players do now that Blizzard has answered their cries? Well complain of course!

On a less sarcastic note i am pretty sure that Blizzard will continue to 'nerf' the reputations over time and things will be back to the way they were at the end of Cataclysm, they have already started by adding the commendations for every faction which earns you double reputation on any of your alts.

[Maoli]

Why do people always go to extremes? I have an alt dk right now that can't get into the new sections of raids without having better gear. He's been 90 for weeks and I never get anything from LFR on him. I could probably buy a few BS pieces and get enough ilevel to access the new content but why? Why have all the rep gear become pointless for all toons after your first? I'm definitely not going to grind out rep on my alts unless i'm REALLY bored... which means it'll be really slow getting gear and i'll get bored of him. I'm already bored of this expansion and I had a ton of fun doing my main toon. If maxing out the rep on my main unlocked the gear for my alts i'd have leveled up 2-3 more to 90 by now. For me it's an unnecessary wall that limits my fun for no real reason.

They could make reps account-bound and people could have lots more fun with alts. Or they can keep it how it is, and those willing to grind out the rep can take advantage. Whatever works for them, for me i'll be me unsubbing a few months down the road after 5.1 comes out and i get bored of it even quicker. Which is a shame imo.

[zimzum2523]

What is your point? All content is optional. no one has to do anything the don't want to, It's a game. But rep is a huge part of mop end game with dailys as the only way to get it. Rep grinds were not even this bad in BC because there was more then one way to grind (turn ins, dungeon grinds, mob kills). Just because content is optional (which it all is) does not mean it should not receive negative criticism.

[nyc81991]

No there are other ways to increase your rep. Also the Klaxxi and Golden Lotus should be honored just from questing so you can still purchase items from them without ever doing a daily.

It is really amazing that people can read into things that aren't there as if they are looking for something to disagree with.

Also, you are wrong about the Golden Lotus. You have to do dailies to get rep with them. Klaxxi and Shado-Pan can get to honored from normal questing but that is only 2 pecies of gear that don't necessarily require dailies (which honestly isn't much different when it comes down to it and is just picking at details). Most of their gear requires revered.

[thunderdragon2]

I thought about the trade off being gear vs rep. It would work to a point but I feel valor vs rep is a better trade off because at some point players will stop caring about whatever gear is available from the dungeons. With the gear upgrade system that is soon to be in place, combined with the current weekly cap, Valor will always be valuable. Still, either would be preferable to a return to how things were in Cata (and Wrath to a slightly lesser extent). I absolutely agree that players should have a choice in how they spend their playing time and should not feel punished if they choose to focus on one form of content over another. But it needs to be set up as a true choice, where there is no clear advantage to playing either way. In that sense, the current system fails nearly as much as the Cata one.

tho if we have gear v rep you are forcing the new 90' between drops and rep (rep which they cant use when freshly dinged) but the gear they can make use of right away

[Deleted]

The dailies work just as they did in TBC (I guess the people crying about it missed the only good expansion pre-mop), whereas if you wanted mounts etc, you earned it.

Actually, now I brought TBC up, the people crying about dailies now, all probably missed attunements. That's right, raids back then required you to do quest chains just to get through the doors, you have it extremely easy now, it's quite sad.

You could do dungeons for rep in TBC there was only a few you did dailies for, and personally I don't mind attunement quest chains but I do mind dailies.

[Deleted]

So the fact that I am defending WoW and actually make valid point means I don't play?

My guild that's 2/16 Heroic and 11/16 Normal say Hi.

I saw your point and I responded. You're one of the people who feel obligated to Dailies all because you can't down the content or because Blizzard gave you content so you feel you have to do it, when you don't.

And when you realize that, you'll feel better about it instead of making false assumptions and looking asinine .

---------- Post added 2012-11-17 at 08:45 PM ----------



Because unfortunately after Cataclysm the community wanted content so badly they've been burning themselves out in it and ruining the game for themselves.

Seeing this wave of content bash into them after Cataclysm, all they feel they can do is consume it at a rapid rate and do dailies cuz, unfortunately, everyone's mentallity is that they "have" to, when they're there as an optional source of gear for those who don't even raid.

That's literally the point of the dailies and rep system.

If Blizzard really wanted to be dicks about it they could've made it so that the epics were Exalted and not Revered.

So given its bad design, it cant be the players fault that they dont feel they are optional.

[KCguy]

I've done dailies with two alts and it was to get honored with Golden Lotus as well as honored with Klaxxi. Both did not take long at all. In fact, through all the leveling in Dread Wastes, you dinged honored before you even did any dailies. Golden Lotus, same deal. By the time I finished all the quests and what not, I was into friendly. So really, how long would you have to grind to hit honored? In a few days, I was able to buy the patterns I wanted.

The only profession that's absolute hell is the enchanting weapon patterns. Other than that, all the other factions that have profession patterns, you can get very fast. So I don't see the point to all the whining. I have no reason to go further than that because as people have said, gear wise I don't care and cosmetics wise like mounts, I don't care because my main does all that stuff. I don't see a problem honestly. It's fine as is. Now if you care about gear and want to make an alt a serious raider, yeah it's tougher, but even then how many alts are you going to actually grind through?

[Mandible]

No there are other ways to increase your rep. Also the Klaxxi and Golden Lotus should be honored just from questing so you can still purchase items from them without ever doing a daily.

No. Klaxxi gets you honored from quests, but thats 1 item you have available from that. Golden lotus gets you below friendly.

---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 01:54 AM ----------

Pretty universal fact that you need to do something if you want something. What's your point, though?

His point would be that while you can avoid doing daylies and still get vp you cant spend vp without doing daylies (minus the neck from Klaxxi). Not sure it can be bend or highlighted more than that if you still don't get it.