Man sues wife for giving birth to ugly baby, and wins

[semaphore]

Although, I do acknowledge that the focus of my knowledge being in the European and Mediterranean areas could skew my perspective, as in general these areas' historical view on women was drastically different, and far more positive, than the rest of the world.

Well Confucius wrote that women (and scoundrels) are the most difficulty type of people to live with, because they disrespect you (i.e. a fellow upstanding man) if you are too close to them, and become jealous if you keep your distance. And this is the guy who laid the foundation for China's (literally) ruling school of thought for 2000 years, so...

Oh, and there is this story I was just reading yesterday from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Liu Bei was fleeing an enemy, and stayed at some hunter's home for the night. The hunter wanted to prepare a nice meal for the famous uncle of an emperor that Liu was, but couldn't find any birds or beasts to kill. So what does he do? Why, exactly what any honourable man in his position would do - he killed his wife and fed her thighs to Liu Bei. And then got rewarded with 100 ounces of gold for his nobility.

You aren't wrong though, it's not like notions of marrying for romantic love is foreign to the Chinese. Even if those ancient Chinese are suspiciously prone to enduring love at first sight.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 04:35 PM ----------

You're really reading this article and continue to believe it's something that only happened 100 years ago?

I don't see what this has to do with the idea that "people don't marry for true love" in China. Unless you want to argue that they actually marry for superficial reasons, in which case I'd say I thought we were talking about quote unquote "true love" as opposed to marriages arranged for political/financial gains a la the House of Habsburgs.

[Laize]

Well Confucius wrote that women (and scoundrels) are the most difficulty type of people to live with, because they disrespect you (i.e. a fellow upstanding man) if you are too close to them, and become jealous if you keep your distance. And this is the guy who laid the foundation for China's (literally) ruling school of thought for 2000 years, so...

Oh, and there is this story I was just reading yesterday from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Liu Bei was fleeing an enemy, and stayed at some hunter's home for the night. The hunter wanted to prepare a nice meal for the famous uncle of an emperor that Liu was, but couldn't find any birds or beasts to kill. So what does he do? Why, exactly what any honourable man in his position would do - he killed his wife and fed her thighs to Liu Bei. And then got rewarded with 100 ounces of gold for his nobility.

You aren't wrong though, it's not like notions of marrying for romantic love is foreign to the Chinese. Even if those ancient Chinese are suspiciously prone to enduring love at first sight.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 04:35 PM ----------


I don't see what this has to do with the idea that "people don't marry for true love" in China. Unless you want to argue that they actually marry for superficial reasons, in which case I'd say I thought we were talking about quote unquote "true love" as opposed to marriages arranged for political/financial gains a la the House of Habsburgs.

In China, I'm pretty sure they still practice foot binding and wives come with a dowry. I'd be very surprised if anyone gets down on a knee and presents a ring in most areas over there.

[semaphore]

In China, I'm pretty sure they still practice foot binding and wives come with a dowry. I'd be very surprised if anyone gets down on a knee and presents a ring in most areas over there.

Yeah... if you are living in 1912. Foot binding was outlawed in 1912 by the Republican government which caused the custom to quickly die out in the major cities, and was completely eradicated in isolated countrysides by the 1950s.

Not adopting the western conventions of a ring on one knee isn't the same as saying the Chinese don't marry for romantic love. Yeah I'm sure there are still arranged marriages going on but your views of that country is pretty distorted and misinformed.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 04:49 PM ----------

Depends on where you are in China. This is relatively kind compared to a number of things still in effect there. I generally don't like discussing anything to do with that country's culture, however.

I'm quite interested in that culture, though I agree there's still terrible things going on over there. But there's a great difference between different parts of China and I think some people mistake all of it to be the same as the most backward rural backwater from 70 years ago.

[Laize]

Yeah... if you are living in 1912. Foot binding was outlawed in 1912 by the Republican government which caused the custom to quickly die out in the major cities, and was completely eradicated in isolated countrysides by the 1950s.

Not adopting the western conventions of a ring on one knee isn't the same as saying the Chinese don't marry for romantic love. Yeah I'm sure there are still arranged marriages going on but your views of that country is pretty distorted and misinformed.

Foot binding is one example of how different the family structure is over there. The practice of abandoning female children (You know... because the government won't allow ultrasound techs to reveal sex of the baby.... because then instead of being abandoned, girls would be aborted) is directly tied to the one-family-one-child policy and the comparative value disparity between men and women. Boys grant a higher familial status when marrying your children off. Yes, they still do arranged marriages in China.

[semaphore]

Foot binding is one example of how different the family structure is over there.

100 years ago.

The practice of abandoning female children (You know... because the government won't allow ultrasound techs to reveal sex of the baby.... because then instead of being abandoned, girls would be aborted) is directly tied to the one-family-one-child policy and the comparative value disparity between men and women. Boys grant a higher familial status when marrying your children off. Yes, they still do arranged marriages in China.

And they also do marrying for romantic love in China. Talking about the sexism evident from the results of the one-child policy is really just red herring to my point, which is simply that your claim that "People don't marry because of true love" in China is heavily inaccurate. It's not like Chinese literature or mass media isn't filled with tales of love and romance just like the West.

[iggie]

100 years ago.


And they also do marrying for romantic love in China. Talking about the sexism evident from the results of the one-child policy is really just red herring to my point, which is simply that your claim that "People don't marry because of true love" in China is heavily inaccurate. It's not like Chinese literature or mass media isn't filled with tales of love and romance just like the West.

It's quite true that MOST do not marry for "true love" still in China. In fact, marriage is generally still seen as a way to increase a families status, not just that of the bride/groom.

The Chinese people believe "love will come with time" and I've seen it on many occasions. The younger generations LOOK for true love, but in most cases as they get to the ripe age of 24-26 their parents force them to settle for the first decent bachelor. Keyword there is decent. All they want is a financially stable life for their family. Arranged marriages aren't what I'm talking about, it's about women settling for the first decent male.

I had a colleague meet, "fall in love", and get married in less than a week. She was drop dead gorgeous and she married a 6/10 guy. Everyone knows what happened there. She no longer works, and just stays at home shopping online with her new daughter. She probably cheats on him to.

In the arrangement of marriage the women often only brings her looks to the table. Stay at home mom's are still the common case in most cities. Increasingly some cities (Beijing/Shanghai/Hangzhou and other developed ones) are becoming more westernized in ideals and women's rights, but it's still very crude in many parts of the country.


I think there may be more to this story. Did this guy never see photos of her youth? Nothing at all? Perhaps fake or doctored. I agree with a divorce (in which he takes the majority), but not suing. If my fiance did the same to me, she'd be out the door on her ass.





side note: the one child policy (currently) is near fucking worthless and no one really follows it. It's easily circumvented/bypassed. Fifteen years ago, it did it's job however.

[Laize]

100 years ago.


And they also do marrying for romantic love in China. Talking about the sexism evident from the results of the one-child policy is really just red herring to my point, which is simply that your claim that "People don't marry because of true love" in China is heavily inaccurate. It's not like Chinese literature or mass media isn't filled with tales of love and romance just like the West.

It should be painfully obvious that these people didn't marry for romance.

[semaphore]

The Chinese people believe "love will come with time" and I've seen it on many occasions. The younger generations LOOK for true love, but in most cases as they get to the ripe age of 24-26 their parents force them to settle for the first decent bachelor. Keyword there is decent. All they want is a financially stable life for their family. Arranged marriages aren't what I'm talking about, it's about women settling for the first decent male.

Yeah, this I can agree with, though I won't necessarily say it's that much different from the West. People also look for suitable, stable partners as they get older to settle down with - they just perhaps do so at a much later age (and marry a lot less) here. My reply was because Laize made a very broad general statement, and I guess I also assumed Laize meant they had arranged marriages or married without any romance involved. Like I said, I thought it's quote unquote "true love". Getting wiser and dumping "true love" for a romantically acceptable partner with stability and security is pretty standard imho.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 05:53 PM ----------

It should be painfully obvious that these people didn't marry for romance.

Yeah but that's not what you said. You said people don't marry for "true love" in China.

Though to be honest I thought your originally reply was to say that China is such a different culture that they would think about the appearances of a partner differently (though apparently lots of people here agree with that husband so...), and we are kinda in a weird path from the post you were responding to.

[Kasierith]

I'm quite interested in that culture, though I agree there's still terrible things going on over there. But there's a great difference between different parts of China and I think some people mistake all of it to be the same as the most backward rural backwater from 70 years ago.

I'm aware that China is among the most differentiated countries in the world in terms of the cultures and beliefs of those within. I have even been to China, and have read two of the four great classics, Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Dream of the Red Chamber, which I think fairly shows that romance is indeed an aspect of Chinese history. That said, prevalent across many of their beliefs, especially among the leaders of China, is a Middle Kingdom mentality, a mix of racism, sexism, and fascism that has existed in China for countless generations and even still represents itself to the world in instances like this and the response to Condoleezza Rice's visit to China. Even if it is not the entirety of their cultural perspective, it is one that is highly influential and one I find highly reprehensible.

[Duridi]

You really think it's ok for someone to spend a small fortune on plastic surgery and then not even mention "Oh hey, by the way I used to look completely fucking different"? You don't see why someone would be at ALL upset over that?

Honestly, I don't.

I really do not see how this is important to know. I really don't.

[Laize]

Honestly, I don't.

I really do not see how this is important to know. I really don't.

Well you seem to be one of the only ones. Most people can at least see why the guy would be pissed.

[semaphore]

I'm aware that China is among the most differentiated countries in the world in terms of the cultures and beliefs of those within. I have even been to China, and have read two of the four great classics, Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Dream of the Red Chamber, which I think fairly shows that romance is indeed an aspect of Chinese history. That said, prevalent across many of their beliefs, especially among the leaders of China, is a Middle Kingdom mentality, a mix of racism, sexism, and fascism that has existed in China for countless generations and even still represents itself to the world in instances like this and the response to Condoleezza Rice's visit to China. Even if it is not the entirety of their cultural perspective, it is one that is highly influential and one I find highly reprehensible.

Oh, absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I completely I agree with you on the darker aspects of the Chinese mentality. I'm very keenly aware of how institutionally sexist, fascist and racist the traditional Chinese (or rather Confucian) mentality is, and it's something that still shows through in its modern literature.

My interest in that culture stems partly from my sin of liking all things complicated, and partly from a morbid fascination with what's really an exceptionally bloody and brutal history.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I don't.

I really do not see how this is important to know. I really don't.

You should go to Thailand! There are many nice girls there. They have tight vajayjay's and big tits, really gorgeous women.
It's really not that important that most of them used to have a 6 inch dong between their legs. It's the present that matters , right?

[Duridi]

I don't know how to put it.

But I am trying to imagine this happening to me. If one day, my gorgeous wife (dated for years and got married), comes to me and tell me she used to look like that, sorry for not telling me before we got married. I might not divorced her, but I will be very angry with her for not telling me that, and yes I deem that to be something important enough to know BEFORE you decided to spend the rest of your life with this person. There would be a serious trust issue afterwards even if no actions were taken.

Wow, people sure are different. I wouldn't care one bit personally.

To me, this would just be one of those subjects which you may bump into talking about randomly. Like the fact that both me and my boyfriend used to have bracers during our early teens. Or that I am not speaking my orginal dialect. Definitly not the first thing we talked about, but one day the conversation ends up being about exactly that. I really don't see how that's betrayal. A plastic surgery is to me no different to these other trivial things. Even one that would change your apperance entirely.

Well, good thing we are different, and good thing I have found myself a partner much alike me. Not crying over trivial things, or dwelling over the past.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that this man won or the fact that 124 people on these forums think he was right.

[semaphore]

You should go to Thailand! There are many nice girls there. They have tight vajayjay's and big tits, really gorgeous women.
It's really not that important that most of them used to have a 6 inch dong between their legs. It's the present that matters , right?

Kind of a false analogy, what about wanting children?

Though I would say what's important is not keeping major secrets from your significant other, not what you used to be like. Especially when you're talking about something as superficial and trivial as mere appearances (of the past).

[pouca]

It's a hoax.
This story is completly made up...

Made up and funny, nice try.

[semaphore]

It's a hoax.
This story is completly made up...

Made up and funny, nice try.

It is? How do you know?

Would be nice if you're right though.

[Duridi]

Well you seem to be one of the only ones. Most people can at least see why the guy would be pissed.

In this thread maybe.

I can see why he was pissed, but I pitty him for letting something like that get to him and I am happy I'm not like him. My life would sure as hell have been miserable if I were to think like that.

That said, I am not one of those jealous types either. Makes my life a whole lot easier and less dramatic than many others.

[Nitrax]

Some people that reply to this thread makes me think that the only love that exists in china is the love for fame and riches. Harsh country.