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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  2. #382
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    By your own logic, she should be absolved of liability in a lawsuit as well. Otherwise other false allegations might be seen as opening them to lawsuits as well.

    As stated, there should be a lesser sentence for coming forward on your own, but you shouldn't be absolved of a crime for doing so. The reason they grant immunity is in a quid pro quo for testimony to take out more important criminals.

    This instance, in particular, involves someone fabricating a scenario out of thin air and, in effect, being granted amnesty for their crime by simply admitting they were full of shit despite having stolen 9 years of an innocent man's life.
    But said lawsuits are far less focused on than decisions of the court, and are based far more on circumstances. In this situation, she would probably never be charged in a lawsuit because she was 11 when it happened. And given this specific incident, your stance is even more flimsy, since you support convicting someone who was barely into her teens at the time that the perjury occurred. If anything, a large part of the blame lays on the legal system, for delivering a charge without proper evidence.

    A lesser sentence maintains the present problem, which is the fear of being charged overriding the guilt. The reason they grant immunity is that the courts recognize that at times it is better to ignore certain crimes in order to aid the greater good.

    Now please, stop dodging the question, because I've asked it repeatedly: why do the other men who were falsely accused not matter to you, when compared to vengeance? You have spent this entire time only arguing one side of the story, and subjectively ignoring the other.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You find where I said she should get a free pass and I'll start addressing your posts.
    Do you support her being prosecuted for perjury, yes or no? if you dont support her being punished then in fact you ARE giving her a free pass.
    Last edited by Haarvald; 2012-11-23 at 10:54 PM.

  4. #384
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    if they are telling the truth, then it shouldn't do a damn thing, if they are lying then it should drop that 3% to something like .000001%
    It can do some harm if you apply a punishment without care, but we can easily mitigate that. Make it very clear to victims that they will not get in trouble for filing a report, only if it is proven that they made a false report.

    In most cases, false reports do not name a suspect and the victims recant within days. As long as society and the police do not jump to wild conclusions about all rape victims being liars so that victims fear retribution, we can BOTH increase reporting rates and punish false reports.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    Do you support her being prosecuted for perjury, yes or no? yes means you give her a free pass.
    I see valid arguments for both sides, which you should have seen since you responded to more or less every post I made.

    You said I think she should get a free pass. At best you aren't actually understanding the posts you're responding to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  6. #386
    No one said it couldn't be done. It was just stated that it was a separate process altogether with its own bureaucratic nightmare.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    No one said it couldn't be done. It was just stated that it was a separate process altogether with its own bureaucratic nightmare.
    On that very same page:
    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Except he will be a pedophile for the rest of his life. The sex offender registry doesn't care about petty details like if you're innocent. Once you're on the list you're there permanently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    So I take it you couldn't find where I said she should get a free pass and chose to instead address posts from like 10 pages ago instead.
    Look... I answer the damn posts as I find them... I JUST answered yours... in fact.. you've intentionally made reference after reference against punishing her... so in fucking fact, you ARE fucking giving her a fucking free pass.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    Look... I answer the damn posts as I find them... I JUST answered yours... in fact.. you've intentionally made reference after reference against punishing her... so in fucking fact, you ARE fucking giving her a fucking free pass.
    Have a nice day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  10. #390
    she just ruined his life for 9 years on a lie, I say ruin her life for 9 years!

    that and make sure he's off the sex offender registry.

    If you were actually raped, this shouldn't discourage anything!

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Have a nice day.
    It will be a nice day when the CRIMINALS are punished, the innocent have their maligned lives and reputations repaired, and the holier than though that support the criminals are silenced.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    It will be a nice day when the CRIMINALS are punished, the innocent have their maligned lives and reputations repaired, and the holier than though that support the criminals are silenced.
    Wait I'm the holier than though and you post stuff like this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  13. #393
    Legendary! Xanjori's Avatar
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    I do get the point of why not to punish her. If she gets punished literally no woman will come forward to admit they lied and innocent men could spend more time in jail. I think women that get caught lying about it should be punished, and quite severely, but if you come forward and get an innocent man released from prison I can understand why you dont get punished. I do believe whoever sentenced him should be either fired for extreme incompetence and then the state pay reperations for the prison time as well as getting his name of the list instantly without him having to piss around with a stupid system.
    [08:44:11] Kurioxan: as long they get big im alright with that

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  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Wait I'm the holier than though and you post stuff like this?
    Now that I have your attention, do you support punishment for the perjury that cost her father 9 years of his life? its a simple question with a simple yes or no answer.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    But said lawsuits are far less focused on than decisions of the court, and are based far more on circumstances. In this situation, she would probably never be charged in a lawsuit because she was 11 when it happened. And given this specific incident, your stance is even more flimsy, since you support convicting someone who was barely into her teens at the time that the perjury occurred. If anything, a large part of the blame lays on the legal system, for delivering a charge without proper evidence.

    A lesser sentence maintains the present problem, which is the fear of being charged overriding the guilt. The reason they grant immunity is that the courts recognize that at times it is better to ignore certain crimes in order to aid the greater good.

    Now please, stop dodging the question, because I've asked it repeatedly: why do the other men who were falsely accused not matter to you, when compared to vengeance? You have spent this entire time only arguing one side of the story, and subjectively ignoring the other.
    Ok let's think about this. Someone is wrongly convicted of arson/assault/some other crime. 10 years down the line, the real criminal comes forward and the wrongly convicted is released.

    Should we avoid punishment of the real criminal because they came forward?

    Yes, current innocent prisoners are important to me. What's more important is making it abundantly clear that we don't tolerate perjury so it doesn't happen in the future.

  16. #396
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I don't think that girl deserves the title of daughter, to be honest, and that's the only real punishment necessary.

    I would, however, prefer that the wrongly accused was given the means to rebuild their life.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    I do get the point of why not to punish her. If she gets punished literally no woman
    Because she WASNT A WOMAN.

    If she had killed her father with a hand grenade at the age of 11 would you be blaming her, or would you want to know why the !#$# someone trusted an 11 year old with a hand grenade ?

    If she had been her current age when she lied, I'd be all for punishing her, but the legal system that convicted her father knew full well how unreliable her testimony was at the time, but threw her father away anyways.

  18. #398
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    Because she WASNT A WOMAN.

    If she had killed her father with a hand grenade at the age of 11 would you be blaming her, or would you want to know why the !#$# someone trusted an 11 year old with a hand grenade ?

    If she had been her current age when she lied, I'd be all for punishing her, but the legal system that convicted her father knew full well how unreliable her testimony was at the time, but threw her father away anyways.
    Yeah, the bulk of the blame, I think, lies with the people that took her word for it.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Yeah, the bulk of the blame, I think, lies with the people that took her word for it.
    Thats why the DA that put him in jail needs to be disbarred and charged.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 05:36 PM ----------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

    Sometimes false allegations of rape affect more than the accused, and thats why its incumbent on the prosecutors to get it right.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Haarvald View Post
    Now that I have your attention, do you support punishment for the perjury that cost her father 9 years of his life? its a simple question with a simple yes or no answer.
    No because the statute of limitations on perjury has passed on this case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

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