since when did raiders give up so damn easily

[Deathquoi]

Again. LFR requires no thought. You aren't pushing content you are showing up to collect free gear.

Blizzard has said it themselves, LFR is for people who can not be Raiders. You keep saying I am making this up when the company who makes the game says this.

Your idea of what a raider is happens to be different than what the term that is widely accepted.

Also, People who raided Mc and Naxx Were raiders. Meaning past tense.

Show me where Blizzard said that LFR is for people who cannot be raiders. Show me where that was said.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 07:34 PM ----------

by that logic, does playing a basketball make you a player in the nba?
or
playing messing around on a piano make you a pianist?
or
does singing in the shower make you a singer??

that kinda of logic is invalid because in order to be considered a raider, you have to be in a guild dedicated for it, and you also have to be willing to put in the time to raid.

No, but playing basketball does make you a basketball player. Playing a piano does make you a piano player, and singing in the shower does make you a singer. All of those words are defined as "one who plays basketball/plays piano/sings."

[lockedout]

If you didnt already have 8/8 HC before MOP, you arnt a "raider" (Unless you like got cancer, or your internet died for 6 months or something extreme).
The people you were playing with bad, and if i was in a group where people failed on ultraxion, i would rage quit too. Because that boss is literally the HC boss i have ever done in my life, ever. Its just stand and nuke and press a button at the right time.

I killed Muru pre nerf but I dont have 8/8 HC because I stopped playing in cataclysm because it sucked. Guess I'm not a raider.

[S Blieft]

It is something that has been true to anyone who has played since vanilla.

LOL Anytime Vanilla gets brought up I have to giggle xD.

Can you truly compare vanilla raiding to what it is in current day?

If anything, I'd imagine most people were LESS of a raider back in vanilla
because raids then needed 40 warm bodies who could press one button
in a zerg fest on a boss, they didn't even need that much skill.

(see how it goes both ways?)

[nyc81991]

Show me where Blizzard said that LFR is for people who cannot be raiders. Show me where that was said.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 07:34 PM ----------



No, but playing basketball does make you a basketball player. Playing a piano does make you a piano player, and singing in the shower does make you a singer. All of those words are defined as "one who plays basketball/plays piano/sings."

You keep misunderstanding what I am saying. I don't know if you are looking for something to argue about or if you are just not getting it.

Blizzard has said that LFR was implemented for people who either don't have the time to be a raider or want to experience the content but can't.

[Deathquoi]

You keep misunderstanding what I am saying. I don't know if you are looking for something to argue about or if you are just not getting it.

Blizzard has said that LFR was implemented for people who either don't have the time to be a raider or want to experience the content but can't.

But you said that Blizzard said that LFR is for people who can't be "raiders"? Is that what they said? Or did they say that it's for people that can't commit to a regular raid group but want to raid? I think it's more likely the latter. Can you prove what you've said? Or are you wrong?

[nyc81991]

LOL Anytime Vanilla gets brought up I have to giggle xD.

Can you truly compare vanilla raiding to what it is in current day?

If anything, I'd imagine most people were LESS of a raider back in vanilla
because raids then needed 40 warm bodies who could press one button
in a zerg fest on a boss, they didn't even need that much skill.

(see how it goes both ways?)

Even with 40 people who pressed a few buttons Vanilla was harder than anything out now. That can't be disputed. Just look at the amount of time it took for raids to be cleared compared to now.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 07:43 PM ----------

But you said that Blizzard said that LFR is for people who can't be "raiders"? Is that what they said? Or did they say that it's for people that can't commit to a regular raid group but want to raid? I think it's more likely the latter. Can you prove what you've said? Or are you wrong?

Yes, that is why I said people who do LFR are Raiding but are not Raiders. There is a difference between the two terms.

[Anonymitylol]

Sorry LFR bros, but if you're not doing current content on normal/heroic you're not raiders. All you're doing is queing up for an instance that has 6/6/4 punching bags for easy loot. You fit none of the characteristics that defined what a raider is over the years and sorry but you won't be getting any recognition except from yourself anytime soon.

[Deathquoi]

Even with 40 people who pressed a few buttons Vanilla was harder than anything out now. That can't be disputed. Just look at the amount of time it took for raids to be cleared compared to now.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 07:43 PM ----------



Yes, that is why I said people who do LFR are Raiding but are not Raiders. There is a difference between the two terms.

Where did Blizzard say this? I'm still waiting.

Sorry LFR bros, but if you're not doing current content on normal/heroic you're not raiders. All you're doing is queing up for an instance that has 6/6/4 punching bags for easy loot. You fit none of the characteristics that defined what a raider is over the years and sorry but you won't be getting any recognition except from yourself anytime soon.

You've made the same point as Nyc, but you have no basis for it. Nobody's looking for recognition, it's just stupid to say that someone who is doing raids is not a raider.

[Deleted]

So if I left in the first month or so of T11, just afterI hit 85, and just came back for MoP. Now, I'm doing MSV with my guild now, but am I not a raider since I don't have any Cata raiding achievements, even though I wasn't there to get them when they were current?

I said the majority, not everyone. It's very easy to read between the lines when all you want to do is argue over the internet, isn't it?

Even with 40 people who pressed a few buttons Vanilla was harder than anything out now. That can't be disputed. Just look at the amount of time it took for raids to be cleared compared to now.

You can't really compare. The only reason those raids were considered hard is because people were new at this game, and pretty much.. well bad at it. VERY few competetive guilds compared to now, and alot less addons. The bosses of today are alot more complex, but now we have proper addons and knowledge. You can't compare them.

And impossible bugged bosses do not count.

[nyc81991]

Where did Blizzard say this? I'm still waiting.



You've made the same point as Nyc, but you have no basis for it.

I have no reason to go find the quote. If you don't believe me then go do some research for yourself. You obviously are the one who doesn't want to believe anyone who is against you.

[Otimus]

Again. LFR requires no thought. You aren't pushing content you are showing up to collect free gear.

Blizzard has said it themselves, LFR is for people who can not be Raiders. You keep saying I am making this up when the company who makes the game says this.

Your idea of what a raider is happens to be different than the term that is widely accepted.

Also, People who raided Mc and Naxx Were raiders. Meaning past tense.

I'd like you to show me where Blizzard ever said it's for people who can't be raiders. I'm fairly certain they said it's for people who don't have the time to do normal modes, so they made an easier mode. Not "Can't be raiders".

[nyc81991]

I'd like you to show me where Blizzard ever said it's for people who can't be raiders. I'm fairly certain they said it's for people who don't have the time to do normal modes, so they made an easier mode. Not "Can't be raiders".

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

People who do Lfr are Raiding, They are not Raiders.

Blizzard made Lfr so people who either don't have the time to be a raider or want to experience the content can.

It is a simple difference in terminology.

[Deja Thoris]

This thread has gone full retard.

"Radiers" don't give in after a wipe. Random pugs failing on old content they outgear are not raiders in the true sense of the word.

The distinction here is some people (including me) believe that raiders are people trying to conquer current content. Whether thats heroic sha or normal stoneguard is irrelevant. Argumentative, hair splitting trolls would have us believe that people doing molten core meet the same criteria.

[Deleted]

people who give up in 1-3 tries are not "real" raiders. any "real" raider will have a lot more patience on downing an encounter, since thats an important part of being a raider. you learn how a fight works before you can beat it. sure top notch players can learn an easy encounter in 1 go, most raiders require atleast a few tries.
people who dont have the patience for atleast a few tries even if its on old content arent really raiders.

[JohnnyQuest]

ok clearly this thread has gone in the wrong direction...

I disagree.

This thread has just given you an absolutely perfect illustration of the problems with the vocal WoW community. You couldn't have got a more accurate case study of complete cuntishness anywhere in game.

[Deleted]

The distinction is that his raid was a PuG and not a guild run, and not that you're better than the players he was raiding with.

I don't believe I ever said that? I was talking about real raiders, people who do the content when it's current and not the people who go back and do BT as lvl 90 - not even if in a group of more than 5.....

But this has become a battle of words and distinction. It is true, that a group larger than 5 people is called a "raid group" but that doesn't mean that the people in that raid group are actually raiders.

Don't come and claim, that 20 lvl 90 ganging up on Hogger are raiders, just because their group is larger than 5 people, that's just rubbish.

---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 02:45 AM ----------

This thread has gone full retard.

"Radiers" don't give in after a wipe. Random pugs failing on old content they outgear are not raiders in the true sense of the word.

The distinction here is some people (including me) believe that raiders are people trying to conquer current content. Whether thats heroic sha or normal stoneguard is irrelevant. Argumentative, hair splitting trolls would have us believe that people doing molten core meet the same criteria.

This post right here nails it.

[Firebert]

I have no reason to go find the quote. If you don't believe me then go do some research for yourself. You obviously are the one who doesn't want to believe anyone who is against you.

You made the claim, onus is on you to back it up.

[Gaman]

Any time 6+ people go into a PvE Raid instance, they're raiders.

Anyone saying otherwise is just drawing an arbitrary line. See the following examples:
"If you didn't get World First Dragon Soul Heroic, you're not a raider" is one extreme.
"If you didn't get Server First Dragon Soul Heroic..."
"If you didn't clear Dragon Soul Heroic..."
"If you didn't clear Dragon Soul Normal..."
"If you didn't clear Dragon Soul LFR..."

Draw the line where you like, cause everyone will just see it as trying to put yourself above others. Truth is, there is no line.

The line is drawn that if you do in fact raid current content like once a week, you are a "casual raider". And if you only do LFR, you are not a "raider" in the term that normal people use it for. (My personal wiew on it)

But feel free to applie to a guild and say you have been a raider since LFR came out and check how mutch they will appriciate your former raiding experience.

And beeing a "raider" / "former raider" (read: raiding current content/and or have been raiding current content in X xpack) and calling yourself that, does not mean we put ourself above "casuals" which is a good term for your so called LFR "raiders"

When i did UBRS 15m back in vanilla i did not go around and called myself a raider, neither did i call myself a raider in wotlk when i just sometimes pugged ICC, in BC, Cata and MoP however, i did, since i did raid current content more than once a month and pushed for progression.

But hey if you wanna call yourself a "raider" if you only do LFR, go ahead, as a raider myself i dont care if you so desperately need to try and be put in the same boat as people who actually do raid, im merely trying to explain how most of the people i have come across, and myself included look at the term "raiders"

So to sum it up easy, and in my, and most of other people I have met.
Raiding only LFR makes you a casual, the only reason you do raid LFR is because it was implended, had it not been, you would be stuck in 5mans. Unless you started beeing a raider. (Read: Raiding current content)

And to answer the actual question given by the topic, my guess would be you were in a groupe of some baddies(yes they exist), some casuals, and some raiders. And my guess would be that it was a good combination off them all that left. For diffrent reasons, some dont want to carrie baddies that cant toutch a button, some think its a steamroll since they outlvl and outgear the content and gets mad because it wasnt. My personal opinion on alot of players lately is that to fucking many people have the "i dont want to do anything to get what i want" attitude, and my guess would be your groupe consisted of some of them, and they ragequit.

[Firebert]

(My personal wiew on it)

You're entitled to your personal view on it. It's just that it's blindingly obvious that players will draw an arbitrary line between what they consider raiders and what they don't consider raiders.

I'm not looking for a guild, as none of them can cater to my current work schedule (and I'd much rather have money than raiding achievements).

Regarding the "desperate need to try and be put in the same boat as people who actually do raid", I'm actually following the definition of a raid, am raiding whilst in LFR by that definition. Note that the definition does not depend on personal progression or time constraints.

Thanks for backing up my point, however.

I'm yet to find a player that doesn't raid not call LFR raiding.

[Firebert]

Thats my impression of raiders nowadays. Especially pugs.

Guilds usually kick you for leaving after one wipe in a guild run.