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  1. #1

    [WW] Windwalker DPS Halp

    Hey

    Usually im a Brewmaster Tank but some Bosses i am a Windwalker (Spirit Kings, HoF First Boss etc)

    So whats relly messing with my Head is the use of Fists of Fury:
    When do i use it?

    I just went to a dummy and did about the same dps with FoF and without...

  2. #2
    Hey, I'm in the same boat as you Brew main and WW on one-tank fights. It may just be me, but I rarely find a good time to use this move. It is a DPS increase if done at the perfect time, when RSK won't come off CD, Tiger Palm won't fall off, you won't have to move, you won't cap energy. Preferably coupled with Tigereye Brew since it is our hardest hitting ability. There is a certain point of haste that makes it a DPS loss to even use FoF, somewhere in the 6k region I'm not exactly sure. Using it during a haste proc or Heroism will cut one tick off the end and hurt DPS.

  3. #3
    are you DW or 2h?

  4. #4
    2 hand right now

  5. #5
    Warchief Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    You basically want to be using it exactly 2 GCDs after RSK in order to not delay your next RSK. Also, you want it to be used mainly as an energy regeneration source (ie using it at 60 energy will result in energy capping and negate any bonus).

    So basically after you've ticked off this checklist:
    1) Under any dynamic haste buffs such as Bloodlust/trinkets? Stop right here and don't FoF.
    2) Tiger Power got 8sec or more left on it?
    3) Know for sure you won't have to move soon?

    If these check out, then just before your next RSK Jab twice and pool 4 Chi. Use RSK. Jab once more and go right into FoF. You will have enough time to fire off one more Jab before RSK comes off cooldown. You NEVER want to delay your RSK for anything, and you never want to interrupt your FoF, so the timing around the two is rather tight.
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  6. #6
    Hmmm, I was just reading on the Windwalker guide that FoF is a 0.76% dps gain if used perfectly....seems like a waste of time and effort to even care about it if that's the case.

  7. #7
    1) Its a <1 min CD ability a.k.a. use it on CD unless you have to move soon.
    2) Make sure to have 3 stacks of Tiger Palm (till next patch) and the Rising Sun Kick debuff to get max amount of damage (and your brew if you want)
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zucchellij View Post
    Hmmm, I was just reading on the Windwalker guide that FoF is a 0.76% dps gain if used perfectly....seems like a waste of time and effort to even care about it if that's the case.
    Can't find that in the guide. Also, the guy writing the guide uses FoF, and it's a pretty big damage factor. It's a lot of damage for the price of 3 Chi, but requires decent timing. In my experience, it's worth using. Definitely.

  9. #9
    So the 3 Chi arent better spent in 1 BoK and 1 Tiger Palm? Should take the same time, correct me if im wrong.
    I spent most of my time (even leveling) as a BrM. So im not yet familiar with the Windwalker, especially in Raiding.

    On 10 man Imperial Vizier Zor'lok I did 66.7k dps and did not a singe FoF.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tinki/advanced
    (i reforged to mass haste after that)

    Tomorrow we Raid again (Wind Lord etc) and i assume i will be a Windwalker again.

    So it should give me a DPS boost if i FoF when:

    -Im not energycapped / my energy wont cap while FoF
    -I just used RSK / I can jab and RSK right when i comes of CD
    -I dont have a Haste trinket proc or buff

  10. #10
    Warchief Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    AND you're dead sure you will not have to cancel it to move for any reason.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Algot View Post
    Can't find that in the guide. Also, the guy writing the guide uses FoF, and it's a pretty big damage factor. It's a lot of damage for the price of 3 Chi, but requires decent timing. In my experience, it's worth using. Definitely.
    No you are wrong. It is an extremely small increase in DPS, less than 1% in BiS gear. That is assuming it is used perfectly, and given its currently bugged state that is not really even possible. Thus it is a dps loss on anything other than a simulator. Even if that wasn't the case, the reduced amount of awareness can't be merited for the small gain in dps.

    Take FoF and drag it to most distant part of your bars. You might not even want to bother keybinding it.
    Only push it when the stun component will be of use.


    These other guys don't know wtf they are talking about.
    You will gain way more than dmg by timing your TEB correctly, instead of fucking with FoF.
    Last edited by johncockhand69; 2012-11-19 at 01:45 AM.

  12. #12
    using it on CD if possible, it's an important factor to avoid energy starving. theorycrafting; i don't give that much about it, in my opinion u have solid 4 seconds of energy regenerating while doing good dps. if u don't use it, u'll face serious downtimes.

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncockhand69 View Post
    No you are wrong. It is an extremely small increase in DPS, less than 1% in BiS gear. That is assuming it is used perfectly, and given its currently bugged state that is not really even possible. Thus it is a dps loss on anything other than a simulator. Even if that wasn't the case, the reduced amount of awareness can't be merited for the small gain in dps.

    Take FoF and drag it to most distant part of your bars. You might not even want to bother keybinding it.
    Only push it when the stun component will be of use.


    These other guys don't know wtf they are talking about.
    You will gain way more than dmg by timing your TEB correctly, instead of fucking with FoF.
    I use it, it increases my DPS. Finding a window of 4 seconds non-movement isn't hard. It deals more damage than 1 BK + 1 TP, and it gives me some time to regen energy. That said, I don't use it on cooldown as most of the time that would be ignoring a RSK or capping energy.



    I will keep on 'fucking with FoF' until proven wrong.

  14. #14
    Ive topped dps charts without using it.
    You need to be low on energy, have 3 chi, tigerpalm 3stacks, RSK debuff and be able to standstill the duration of it. This just does not happen that often.

    Its a dps increase ofc if used correctly, but to pull it off alot is alot harder than it sounds and if you fail (drop tigerpalm, full energy the whole channeling) or something you will lose dps...

  15. #15
    Warchief Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    It doesn't happen often enough that you use it on cooldown, but it does happen if you plan ahead correctly.

    E.g. I've just done a TEB and Energizing combo, and I'm burning through energy and Chi like a crazy man. During this time I'm rapidly building TEB stacks even while Its still active. By the time I use my second RSK, EB's down and I can start pooling Chi. By the time the third RSK is coming up, I'm low enough on energy that I can pool 4 Chi, pop whatever TEB stacks I have, RSK, Jab and FoF to regen.

    Naturally, yes, I won't be FoF'ing in a high-movement situation, but there's still plenty of occasions where you know for sure you're free to stand and deliver without fear.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by stfouri View Post
    Ive topped dps charts without using it.
    You need to be low on energy, have 3 chi, tigerpalm 3stacks, RSK debuff and be able to standstill the duration of it. This just does not happen that often.

    Its a dps increase ofc if used correctly, but to pull it off alot is alot harder than it sounds and if you fail (drop tigerpalm, full energy the whole channeling) or something you will lose dps...
    Thats why i ignore FoF when i rarely do dps instead of tank. Its such a minor dps win its not worth screwing my brain around it. They really messed up FoF much.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by stfouri View Post
    Ive topped dps charts without using it.
    You need to be low on energy, have 3 chi, tigerpalm 3stacks, RSK debuff and be able to standstill the duration of it. This just does not happen that often.

    Its a dps increase ofc if used correctly, but to pull it off alot is alot harder than it sounds and if you fail (drop tigerpalm, full energy the whole channeling) or something you will lose dps...
    And it is bugged, which means it can easily be a dps loss even if used properly.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 02:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    It doesn't happen often enough that you use it on cooldown, but it does happen if you plan ahead correctly.

    E.g. I've just done a TEB and Energizing combo, and I'm burning through energy and Chi like a crazy man. During this time I'm rapidly building TEB stacks even while Its still active. By the time I use my second RSK, EB's down and I can start pooling Chi. By the time the third RSK is coming up, I'm low enough on energy that I can pool 4 Chi, pop whatever TEB stacks I have, RSK, Jab and FoF to regen.

    Naturally, yes, I won't be FoF'ing in a high-movement situation, but there's still plenty of occasions where you know for sure you're free to stand and deliver without fear.
    You can talk strat about how to use it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact it is at pathetic dps increase. The level of attentiveness required to ensure it is a dps increase is massive for the miniscule amount of dps you actually attain. It is most certainly not something you tell a new player to start trying to do regardless.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 02:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Algot View Post
    I use it, it increases my DPS. Finding a window of 4 seconds non-movement isn't hard. It deals more damage than 1 BK + 1 TP, and it gives me some time to regen energy. That said, I don't use it on cooldown as most of the time that would be ignoring a RSK or capping energy.

    I will keep on 'fucking with FoF' until proven wrong.
    Why would you compare it to 1 BoK and 1 TP? Because its 3 chi = 3 chi? News flash, we don't spam TP!
    If you want to do a comparison its 1.5 BoK = FoF.

    Energy regen isn't even an argument...unless you are just arguing that you find it less boring.
    You regen the same amount of energy regardless what buttons you push.


    Um yah, the proof is here, and there, and everywhere.
    1) Very small dps increase if used properly.
    2) Bugged, so that even if used properly it can still be a dps loss.
    3) Very difficult to pull off a proper usage. Awareness is not infinite, and to waste that much awareness on such a small amount of dps seems like a fools errand to me.
    Last edited by johncockhand69; 2012-11-19 at 02:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johncockhand69 View Post
    Why would you compare it to 1 BoK and 1 TP? Because its 3 chi = 3 chi? News flash, we don't spam TP!
    If you want to do a comparison its 1.5 BoK = FoF.
    Don't jump to conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by naZbaZ View Post
    So the 3 Chi arent better spent in 1 BoK and 1 Tiger Palm? Should take the same time, correct me if im wrong.
    Simply responded to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by johncockhand69 View Post
    Energy regen isn't even an argument...unless you are just arguing that you find it less boring.
    You regen the same amount of energy regardless what buttons you push.


    Um yah, the proof is here, and there, and everywhere.
    1) Very small dps increase if used properly.
    2) Bugged, so that even if used properly it can still be a dps loss.
    3) Very difficult to pull off a proper usage. Awareness is not infinite, and to waste that much awareness on such a small amount of dps seems like a fools errand to me.
    The fact is; from the logs I've seen FoF is still a big damage factor and used by many monks. Yes, it may be a quality of life issue. You just keep saying "it's a small damage increase", "it's bugged". But to be fair, it has its moments, it can be useful. Disregarding it completely is just ignorant, imo.

  19. #19
    Seems to be a lot of "I dont know how to use that ability so I wont bother with it and I will say that Im better than you"

    FoF if used correctly is a dps gain, esp with good crit. If used incorrectly it is a dps loss. If you know how to use FoF use it, if you dont, then dont use it.

    /thread

  20. #20
    If you're a new WW, ignore FoF. Once you have the rest of your rotation down without errors, then you should start working on how to fit FoF into it.

    But worrying about that last 2% of effectiveness when you haven't nailed down the core rotation isn't a good plan. Doing 98% of theoretical maximum is fine, and a lot better than doing 60% of theoretical maximum because you're using FoF wrong and are making other errors.

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