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  1. #1

    GC about healing

    "Since your plan is to make heals coming from non heal specs less effective how will you compensate enhancment shaman in pvp?"
    GC: It's intended to be a nerf not a balance agnostic change. (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53179390251009)


    Well, tnx. Once again.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimilijin View Post
    "Since your plan is to make heals coming from non heal specs less effective how will you compensate enhancment shaman in pvp?"
    GC: It's intended to be a nerf not a balance agnostic change. (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53179390251009)


    Well, tnx. Once again.
    Are you dumb? You would rather want an unbalanced game?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    Are you dumb? You would rather want an unbalanced game?
    im asuming you are sarcastic cose im plaing from begining and i cant remember any time when game was been balanced

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimilijin View Post
    "Since your plan is to make heals coming from non heal specs less effective how will you compensate enhancment shaman in pvp?"
    GC: It's intended to be a nerf not a balance agnostic change. (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53179390251009)


    Well, tnx. Once again.
    SPriest is a top tier DPS Class in PvP and just below the current FOTM Mage / Warrior / BM

    Enhancement is trailing behind all other melee classes and could use some love to be on par with the rest

    Solution? NERF Hybrids across the board
    GC needs to be replaces as he has no idea about PvP in this Game

  5. #5
    This is a huge nerf for enhancement and his response shows he doesn't care.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    im asuming you are sarcastic cose im plaing from begining and i cant remember any time when game was been balanced
    I'm assuming you are being naive because I am also playing from the beginning and the game is more balanced that it ever has been. When most specs are as close as 3-4% DPS average differences in PVE and classes are pretty evenly played (with a few exceptions) in PVP - that's a very balanced game.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    I'm assuming you are being naive because I am also playing from the beginning and the game is more balanced that it ever has been. When most specs are as close as 3-4% DPS average differences in PVE and classes are pretty evenly played (with a few exceptions) in PVP - that's a very balanced game.
    Evenly played = balance, amiright? Look at top arena comps (glad range) you will see how balanced it is CIAO

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    I'm assuming you are being naive because I am also playing from the beginning and the game is more balanced that it ever has been. When most specs are as close as 3-4% DPS average differences in PVE and classes are pretty evenly played (with a few exceptions) in PVP - that's a very balanced game.
    it may be most balanced from begining it still pain to play as enh tho, hunters, mages and wariors are op and can kill you in 3-5 sec(they will be nerfed tho so we can hope it will be better in 5,1), and even if we skip that 3 clases in comarition still enh have 2 cc where one is 5hp stick that can be destroyed, avoided and dispeled even if it hits target somehow, second one is hex that can be dispeled by most clases even dps and have pretty hig cd in adition,

    to survive direct nuke we need to pop up all cds which are SR + one from talents + wolfs + ancestral guidance which make 4gcd and still you can be kiled before you even use all while every other class have some escape + good survivability cd which make them dont take any dmg or reduce dmg taken by 95% with one or 2 buttons press usually also braking CCs with it to

    about movement, every mele have some gap closers or ability to be totaly immune to slows while enh can just imobilize ppls with FS which is way below others abilities so i may be naive but i see things like they curently are and its not looking balanced at all to me

    ppls who are plaing arenas with curently op clases may say its all good, working as intended and so on but im plaing with rogue so i have to pull my weight in 100% and you can imagine my frustration most of the time or you cant cose it seems you dont have any problems in PvP
    Last edited by kosajk; 2012-11-25 at 02:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome
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    Enhance has craptastic healing compared to most hybrids. The only good healing we have come from talents. Went enhancement because i couldnt stand being jumped 24/7 as elemental.. guess thats also going to get taken away. The druid and Dk are almost geared now so might be time to jump ship.

  10. #10
    Blizzard applies this nerf for the greater good, Sp Healing is way too strong.

    But Shaman Dps Spec do not deserve this nerf atm. , it's not okay that hybrids have such a strong offheal but instead they should at least give a small buff to compensate this, instead Elemental and Enhance have to wait until 5.2 to get fixed.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  11. #11
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Shaman hybrid healing IS too strong. Maybe not as strong as shadow priest, but it's crazy strong. I understand why they're nerfing this, when I was able to, as Elemental, spam my 2s partner to full health in 2-3 Healing Surges consistently.

    Other issues with the specs are entirely separate from this particular issue, and this is not a targeted nerf at Shaman; it's a balance shift for all hybrids, since hybrids are intended to have SOME healing potential, but not STRONG healing potential. And really; Enhancement is doing fine. It's been fine in PvP, and is doing very well in PvE. I doubt this change (which isn't as egregious as people are making it out to be) will ruin Enhancement for PvP. The issue is primarily Elemental, and while it's going to hurt Elemental, the issue with that spec isn't that their healing isn't strong enough. Because the off-healing IS strong.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    Are you dumb? You would rather want an unbalanced game?
    First of all there is no balance in this game and never will be in the way it works now.
    Second, i would rather not been forced to use everything I got in order to keep my self alive. And after this global nerf, everything I got won't be enough to keep me alive.
    Right now if things goes wrong, I m not just forced to use a "defensive" or "self healing" ability, its not enough. I m forced to use Asce along with Ancestral Guidance. So technically I m using my best offensive skill in order to keep my shaman alive. That seems balanced to you? And please don't give me that "your healer teammate will keep you alive" bullsh*t. This is wrong and they make it worse. Resto shamans too good? KK nerf all shamans. Non healers heal too good? KK nerf all non healers. That's not the way they most popular mmo game in the world should follow. That's just crap.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Shaman hybrid healing IS too strong. Maybe not as strong as shadow priest, but it's crazy strong. I understand why they're nerfing this, when I was able to, as Elemental, spam my 2s partner to full health in 2-3 Healing Surges consistently.

    Other issues with the specs are entirely separate from this particular issue, and this is not a targeted nerf at Shaman; it's a balance shift for all hybrids, since hybrids are intended to have SOME healing potential, but not STRONG healing potential. And really; Enhancement is doing fine. It's been fine in PvP, and is doing very well in PvE. I doubt this change (which isn't as egregious as people are making it out to be) will ruin Enhancement for PvP. The issue is primarily Elemental, and while it's going to hurt Elemental, the issue with that spec isn't that their healing isn't strong enough. Because the off-healing IS strong.
    Well, considering we don't know any details of the change its impossible to say whether it will/won't ruin Enhancement PvP. An across the board nerf to the potency of Healing surge would have horrible effect on Enhancement PvP since it is the most important survival tool we have . If its simply a significant increase in its mana cost, then its not a big deal. If its a penalty on healing anyone but yourself, then... so what.

    The bulk of this nerf should be aimed at the Elementals, SPriests, and Balance Druids. I think the easiest fix to this would be to simply cap their mana at the same 60k as the physical hybrids and scale down the damage skills accordingly. Mana management is long dead for just about every DPS caster, theres no reason you need the massive 300k mana pools you have now.
    Last edited by nazrakin; 2012-11-25 at 08:15 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by paror View Post
    Evenly played = balance, amiright? Look at top arena comps (glad range) you will see how balanced it is CIAO
    Even is there is a 1% difference in damage, the pro's will still switch for the advantage. That's what makes them 'pro's' because they play whatever is necessary to win. Taking the top 100 teams as a benchmark for "world balance" is a completely unrealistic way to see how balanced the game is.

    CIAO

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 11:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    Snip
    But then you are looking at balance from the point of view from a few specs when there are 29 (non prot) specs in the game. If can only think of a few classes that have problems then wouldn't you say overall its pretty balanced?

    PVP in general will never be balanced (Any game, any time) unless its an FPS with 1 gun or an RPG with 1 spec. having 29 different specs (all with multiple glyphs, talents (that behave differently depending on the spec), abilities, rotations etc) this close together is a good job in my opinion.

    Its not unbalanced, there are just a few issues to iron out.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Well, considering we don't know any details of the change its impossible to say whether it will/won't ruin Enhancement PvP. An across the board nerf to the potency of Healing surge would have horrible effect on Enhancement PvP since it is the most important survival tool we have . If its simply a significant increase in its mana cost, then its not a big deal. If its a penalty on healing anyone but yourself, then... so what.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. It ALL depends on HOW the nerfs will be done.

  16. #16
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Well, considering we don't know any details of the change its impossible to say whether it will/won't ruin Enhancement PvP.
    We don't know anything confirmed, but the one thing they said was the plan was to make PvP power affect either DPS or healing, depending on spec.

    So if you have 30% PvP power as Enhancement, you'll heal for 30% less in PvP than you have been.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    We don't know anything confirmed, but the one thing they said was the plan was to make PvP power affect either DPS or healing, depending on spec.

    So if you have 30% PvP power as Enhancement, you'll heal for 30% less in PvP than you have been.
    Well, that sucks. I'd much rather see them increase the mana cost of heals by a lot for hybrids, or maybe give the spells a 4 secs CD, or increase the cast time of those spells. This way, enhancement and ret healing through procs wouldn't be touched, but other healing would. And balance/ele/spriest would get nerfed.

    (not that i think ele is OP or anything, but spamming HS heals too much)

  18. #18
    I'd much rather see them increase the mana cost of heals by a lot for hybrids, or maybe give the spells a 4 secs CD, or increase the cast time of those spells. This way, enhancement and ret healing through procs wouldn't be touched, but other healing would.
    It would also screw us over in pve, it's quite common for us to get a full MW5 in less than 4 secs (and for soloing and some raid situations that would be 2 heals in 4 secs). Nope, this time they've got it right...by solving a pvp balance issue with a nerf that only affects pvp.
    Last edited by Staticus; 2012-11-26 at 02:08 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    We don't know anything confirmed, but the one thing they said was the plan was to make PvP power affect either DPS or healing, depending on spec.

    So if you have 30% PvP power as Enhancement, you'll heal for 30% less in PvP than you have been.
    Ah, I do remember them talking about that. If they do go that route then its def a large nerf to Enhancement and it deserves some compensation. My hope is that GC misunderstood the question there, and that Blizzard does have some ideas on how they can nerf hybrid off healing without having such a devastating effect on personal survival.

  20. #20
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Ah, I do remember them talking about that. If they do go that route then its def a large nerf to Enhancement and it deserves some compensation. My hope is that GC misunderstood the question there, and that Blizzard does have some ideas on how they can nerf hybrid off healing without having such a devastating effect on personal survival.
    He may have thought the asker meant "compensation" as in "buffs to healing to make up for the nerf". The intent is to nerf hybrid healing. It should be nice, it shouldn't be good or strong. It IS too strong right now, so I can understand the nerf.

    It makes more sense to me than the Totem stuff, anyway.

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