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  1. #21
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    I myself have no firearms and feel no need to have one. My brother and father both have numerous both have them locked in huge gun safes my dads holds like 40 and my brothers hold about 20 so yeah pretty large.

  2. #22
    Dreadlord Ibbi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaril View Post
    I don't really have qualms with American's having guns. I think it's pretty fucking stupid
    Stupid?

    If there's a couple guys breaking into your home armed, and you call the police, you have 12 minutes on average to deal with these guys until the police arrive (12 min. is national average).

    What would be the logical thing to do: Sit there squirming while hoping they don't shoot ya? Or get the gun out and hide, and hopefully they don't spot you first?

    Saying it's stupid is making you look stupid.
    Last edited by Ibbi; 2012-11-27 at 08:32 PM.
    DISCLAIMER: Reader discretion advised. The above post is entirely fictional and purely for entertainment purposes only. Any similarities to real life events, animals, humans, persons, politicians, or any other form of entity, living, dead or in any other state of existence, is purely coincidental. The author cannot and will not be held accountable for such similarities or any other parallels that are imagined and/or drawn by you, the reader, between the above fictional work and real life events.

  3. #23
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    haha, let me think of what all guns i own.

    2 ak-47s
    2 ar-15s
    tommy gun
    .45 caliber rock island arms 1911
    a russian .308 vepr (similar to the looks of an ak-47 for those that do not know)
    2 sks's
    1 full 1919 and 1 parts kit minus a side reciever plate
    an mp5
    3 or 4 shotguns, i honestly cant remember
    3 or 4 .22 caliber guns, couple .22 caliber revolvers, couple .22 caliber rifles
    .30-06 german mannlicher
    german luger
    hk 91 .308

    thats all i can think of right about now

  4. #24
    High Overlord Quick Ben's Avatar
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    I admire your effort to have a level headed discussion about this sensitive topic, but I see a huge flaw in your approach. You start with a belief system rather than a pragmatic assessment of situation. You are telling us what, in your opinion, is a widely held belief in the US. You cannot have a beneficial discussion this way. A real debate would have been possible if you had shown us studies where having a gun as a deterrent caused a significant reduction of crime, or a large scale experiment in a city, state or country where access to guns improved law and order. But you don't have any of that. All you have is a belief set from hundreds of years back, in sharp contrast to reality. America is in the minority in the civilized nations when it comes to gun control. There is a reason for that. And that is probably what prompts these responses from canadians and europeans that you refer to, appropriately baffled why Americans stick to a system so alien to what they are used to.

    But this would be a pragmatic discussion and not within the framework you laid down. Instead we will have a discussion that I have had with friends and colleagues in the past when 2nd amendment (right to bear arms) is their answer to everything.
    Never underestimate of the power of stupid people in large groups.

  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibbi View Post
    Stupid?

    If there's a couple guys breaking into your home armed, and you call the police, you have 12 minutes on average to deal with these guys until the police arrive (12 min. is national average).

    What would be the logical thing to do: Sit there squirming while hoping they don't shoot ya? Or get the gun out and hide, and hopefully they don't spot you?

    Saying it's stupid is making you look stupid.
    Does that happen often where you live?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 08:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    haha, let me think of what all guns i own.

    2 ak-47s
    2 ar-15s
    tommy gun
    .45 caliber rock island arms 1911
    a russian .308 vepr (similar to the looks of an ak-47 for those that do not know)
    2 sks's
    1 full 1919 and 1 parts kit minus a side reciever plate
    an mp5
    3 or 4 shotguns, i honestly cant remember
    3 or 4 .22 caliber guns, couple .22 caliber revolvers, couple .22 caliber rifles
    .30-06 german mannlicher
    german luger
    hk 91 .308

    thats all i can think of right about now
    You have a fully automatic license? What kind of AK47's? What country is it from and from what year?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I do sympathize with these so called terrorist organisations. As far as I'm concerned, at least they are fighting for something they believe in, and for what they see to be the greater good. They're not fighting to line the pockets of statesmen, governors and oil barons. I wish we could the same about the people on this side of the planet.
    Hobbes talking about Al Qaeda and ISIS.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ibbi View Post

    Saying it's stupid is making you look stupid.
    I know it can't be helped on the internet, but the spirit of this is to refrain from lowering down to that level ya know?

  7. #27
    The Insane peggleftw's Avatar
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    iive never really said anything bad about gun ownership, i think there should be some restrictions on the type of gun and who is allowed them, but it seems to work (sort of) for US. as long as you're happy. but for me, id rather not have guns here, simply no need. would rather we fixed our knife crime before adding guns to the equation.
    Too cool for a signature

  8. #28
    Pandaren Monk Auloria's Avatar
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    Nice thread.

    I think gun owners just need to consistently show that they take the responsibility of gun ownership seriously, and that will help dispel those notions. It's hard to fight the media, as they are going to sensationalize anything, but you can absolutely impact your community's perception.

    I grew up on a farm and certainly grew up around guns. My father has a real passion for hunting, and would occasionally let me along. I grew up respecting that my dinner didn't come from a supermarket, it originally came from a living breathing animal. We also used guns to kill coyotes that attacked our calves and sheep, or pests that ate our crops. I had a pellet gun as a kid and was the terror of every aluminum can in the area, but I knew to respect it as a powerful weapon.

    In college I was good friends with a cop and we'd go to the shooting range together, even though I don't own one, I think it's an important skill to have, to know how to safely operate a weapon, to be able to properly use one even when afraid. I've been moving from state to state too often in the past few years, so I haven't yet purchased my own, in order to avoid dealing with gun laws. I've always thought of guns as usual tools, for hunting and for protection.

    The situation would have to be rather extreme for me to ever consider using a gun on a person.

  9. #29
    At this point legal guns are kind of American culture, so I'm certainly not against them, but I do question the way they are distributed.

    Still, I love my gun, but it's mostly for my "target range". Would love to get my hands on a Carolean musket as well.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    You have a fully automatic license? What kind of AK47's? What country is it from and from what year?
    no i do not have a fully automatic license as non of my firearms are fully automatic. one of my aks is a bulgarian and i do not remember the year off the top of my head, the other i believe is a chinese, it was given to me by my brother as a gift

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Quick Ben View Post
    I admire your effort to have a level headed discussion about this sensitive topic, but I see a huge flaw in your approach. You start with a belief system rather than a pragmatic assessment of situation. You are telling us what, in your opinion, is a widely held belief in the US. You cannot have a beneficial discussion this way. A real debate would have been possible if you had shown us studies where having a gun as a deterrent caused a significant reduction of crime, or a large scale experiment in a city, state or country where access to guns improved law and order. But you don't have any of that. All you have is a belief set from hundreds of years back, in sharp contrast to reality. America is in the minority in the civilized nations when it comes to gun control. There is a reason for that. And that is probably what prompts these responses from canadians and europeans that you refer to, appropriately baffled why Americans stick to a system so alien to what they are used to.

    But this would be a pragmatic discussion and not within the framework you laid down. Instead we will have a discussion that I have had with friends and colleagues in the past when 2nd amendment (right to bear arms) is their answer to everything.
    It's a very difficult thing to provide what you're looking for on several accounts. There isn't a lot of funding into crime prevention due to legally owned firearms. It is actually unknown how many crimes are prevented every year by just showing a gun to a would be attacker. I have seen claims of upwards to 2 million cases a year. However, since those involved no homicide they don't get reported to the FBI nor the CDC.

    The closest I can actually offer are the shocking numbers from Florida where since the indoctrination of Stand Your Ground, violent crime has steadily declined every year, and not by a small margine because those statistics were specifically tracked.

    However, I don't think even giving you what you are seemingly asking or stating for would have been any more helpful. We live in the information age. If someone cared, they'd already know. This isn't a conversation driven from the point of "here's my stance, I'm right, now let me change you." This was to express that not all gun owners in America are crazed lunatics and or answering some questions due to misconceptions that people have.

    Frankly, again, the information is already out there and yet one of the first posts was asking about the purchasing process.

    Perhaps you should (not to be disrespectful) wised to the idea that often it isn't fact or fiction which people care about but how it's delivered. I think that is part of the problem with Americans and Guns perceived by the rest of the world, which I blame on our Media and News outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    iive never really said anything bad about gun ownership, i think there should be some restrictions on the type of gun and who is allowed them, but it seems to work (sort of) for US. as long as you're happy. but for me, id rather not have guns here, simply no need. would rather we fixed our knife crime before adding guns to the equation.
    It's not cheerful or even nice, but I've spent time on the internet. I've seen up-close the issue you're talking about. Knife attacks are pretty serious in the UK on down to India and over the Russia.

    I've seen countless stories and CCTVs of brutal attacks from Gas Stations to Internet Cafe's. This idea that guns are the singular problem is irrational to me. The common element are humans, and a knife attack is so damn personal it's disgusting.
    Last edited by hakujinbakasama; 2012-11-27 at 08:39 PM.

  12. #32
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    no i do not have a fully automatic license as non of my firearms are fully automatic. one of my aks is a bulgarian and i do not remember the year off the top of my head, the other i believe is a chinese, it was given to me by my brother as a gift
    Whats your fave weapon? I am totally in love with my Lee Enfield no.4, I would marry it if my country recognized our love.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I do sympathize with these so called terrorist organisations. As far as I'm concerned, at least they are fighting for something they believe in, and for what they see to be the greater good. They're not fighting to line the pockets of statesmen, governors and oil barons. I wish we could the same about the people on this side of the planet.
    Hobbes talking about Al Qaeda and ISIS.

  13. #33

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Istaril's Avatar
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    Saying it's stupid is making you look stupid.
    Arming an entire population with the ability to kill at the pull of a finger was fucking stupid. Especially with all the morons drifting around. At least against knife you have a chance to run. So many pointless deaths over trivial arguments happen because of it.

  15. #35
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    The main problem is that people like James Holmes are able to get deadly weapons such as assault rifles with relative ease.
    It's not gun owners that's the problem. I'd say close to 90% of all Americans have at least 1 person in their immediate family that owns a gun. And of those millions of people, only a small handful actually use them to cause harm.

  16. #36
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    The main problem is that people like James Holmes are able to get deadly weapons such as assault rifles with relative ease.
    It's not gun owners that's the problem. I'd say close to 90% of all Americans have at least 1 person in their immediate family that owns a gun. And of those millions of people, only a small handful actually use them to cause harm.
    He never used an assault rifle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    I do sympathize with these so called terrorist organisations. As far as I'm concerned, at least they are fighting for something they believe in, and for what they see to be the greater good. They're not fighting to line the pockets of statesmen, governors and oil barons. I wish we could the same about the people on this side of the planet.
    Hobbes talking about Al Qaeda and ISIS.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Istaril View Post
    Arming an entire population with the ability to kill at the pull of a finger was fucking stupid. Especially with all the morons drifting around. At least against knife you have a chance to run. So many pointless deaths over trivial arguments happen because of it.
    And yet if you look at the number of legal gun owners, compare that to the number of gun crimes commuted by that populace, you'll find is extremely low. Also, as it will be clearly pointed out, Cars are involved in more deaths in the US each year over guns. In face, Tobacco is related to more deaths than fire arms. Yet, the perception, is that we have a huge problem. Of the deaths, a heavy % are due to suicide. If those are included, should Asia, the Middle East, and Europe get rid of trains? (gross comparison but you understand the point I hope)
    Thank you for that. I didn't want to direct links because I felt like I would be forcing the information/opinion, but it was nice that someone had them on hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    He never used an assault rifle.
    This is correct. The term "Assault Rifle" is grossly and incorrectly used in the Media. So is the terminology "hi-capacity magazine."

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Whats your fave weapon? I am totally in love with my Lee Enfield no.4, I would marry it if my country recognized our love.
    my dad was a gun dealer til i was around 22 or 23. back in his early years, id say around the early to mid 90s there was quite a deal going on with sks rifles, my dad bought a lot of these and resold them and made quite a profit, he would always pick out some of the best looking ones and set them aside to sell after some of the lower quality ones would sell but towards the end of this little rush he gave me and my brother both one each. i was around 12 or 13 i reckon and it was my first real firearm. i had had a shotgun and a .22 but this was my first non hunting firearm.

    ive since sportarized it a bit with a bipod and a folding buttstock and a nice scope and i would have to say it is my favorite due to my father giving it to me. however if i were to choose an overall prefernce in what i enjoy shooting it would be one of my ar-15s. again one of my ars my father gave to me as he was getting out of the gun selling buisness and so it hold a special place as well.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by MushroomBomb View Post
    How rigorous is the process for being allowed to purchase and own firearms? If this is a state-by-state thing, just mention how it is wherever you live. Are there any personality tests, any medical checks required, inquiries into mental health, any of these things? It always strikes me that these accidents happen because people who should not be allowed to own weapons do, not simply because 'everybody' has a weapon.
    No there are no personality tests, there really couldn't be. No there are no medical checks there really couldn't be. If you wanted this in place you would need to first do these things for people getting driver's licenses or buying cars, FAR more dangerous than folks getting a gun. It strikes most people the wrong way because believe it or not mass killings with firearms is actually a rare thing. No, this does not paint it in any less of a serious picture but people use cars as weapons much more and people have accidents in cars killing/hurting folks due to being irresponsible car owners probably 1000 times more per hour than folks do with guns.

    Got news for ya as well, most times the cars do WAY more damage as well. What folks need to do is educate themselves and stop living off what they see in the news. The majority of that is NOT how it is in reality.

    I am a gun owner, I am a police officer, a dad and husband. I have served my nation in the US Army and serve my community as a police officer. I carry a gun daily on and off duty, I hunt and fish. I train almost daily with my weapons and am very knowledgeable and skilled in their operations. I do think folks that choose to use a broad brush about guns and gun owners need to educate themselves on the topic more and try to ask questions. For one I would be happy to help do my best in answering them. You might not always like the answers but it will make them no less the answer.

    I have several handguns, a few self loading rifles and a couple shot guns. It is my right to have them.
    "The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil to exist because it isn't angry enough."
    -Bede Jarrett (historian)

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaril View Post
    Arming an entire population with the ability to kill at the pull of a finger was fucking stupid. Especially with all the morons drifting around. At least against knife you have a chance to run. So many pointless deaths over trivial arguments happen because of it.
    perhaps its just semantics but there are things such as throwing knives

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