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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackinthegreen View Post
    Ah, I did miss that post. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19247144 to be specific. Yes, the thought that a single weapon upgrade like that will make or break enrage timers is unreasonable and possibly laughable. RNG is just as much to blame in that case.
    Yeah lets say the overall dps of the team is 400k dps and lets say he would get a 5k dps increase (I really really doubt it would be this much) from that weapon, that would only turn out to be just above 1% overall dps increase for the team. In normal modes that 1% dps increase can not even be detected from each boss attempt, when things like mechanics, positioning, movement and a better rotation would come in to the equation.

  2. #162
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackinthegreen View Post
    And I agree with that. A single piece of loot from that tier or before (barring maybe an awesome set bonus) isn't going to make or break the enrage timer.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 03:30 AM ----------



    And are still nearly as good as haste and mastery once hit and expertise caps are reached, as Theck proves at http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/05/dam...ing-follow-up/. It is possible that the stat gain from the legendary gem is enough to make it more worthwhile than the scimitar.
    Nearly is a key word here.

    And as it is explained in the blogg

    So avoidance isn’t explicitly bad, but it’s definitely not as attractive as haste or mastery. It’s hard to recommend the expertise/avoidance strategy over exp/haste or exp/mastery.
    And again, prot paladin would never win the Sha weapon over a DPS warrior/dk (only in case that neither of them are presented in raid or don't need the weapon).

  3. #163
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrius View Post
    No offense man, but roll system is the most retarded system ever. If your guild is a little serious about progressing they should refrain from using this system. Instead, either use point based on loot council, from how good an upgrade is something to a member. I personally don't like DKP, because it can be abused or people hogging DKP, taking turns etc. Loot cuncil is usually the best loot system what I have experienced from these years raiding, ofcourse, even officer make someitmes unfair decisions, but overall you put effort into the guild, peforming well in raids you usually get rewarded.
    Every looting system can be abused, and it isn't even that hard. The problem with loot council is that it isn't nearly always a clear cut who benefits the most out of a single item, or who deserves it more, and that is actually presuming the guys doing the distributing are experts enough at all the specs and motivated by fairness, both which are high questionable attributes among many wow players.

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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Nearly is a key word here.

    And as it is explained in the blogg

    And again, prot paladin would never win the Sha weapon over a DPS warrior/dk (only in case that neither of them are presented in raid or don't need the weapon).
    It comes down to whether the larger gains from the sha weapon trump the mastery on the scimitar based on sheer numbers. Like I said, at the moment it seems interesting to think about since I'm not sure on the entirety of the numbers...

    But I suppose I'll bite the bullet for a bit to compare them.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86387 is 524 strength, 786 stam, 355 hit, and 341 mastery. Tack on another 500 strength from the gem for a total of 1024 strength (1075 after Kings) and the other stats. That's equivalent to 1.129% parry before diminishing returns.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86219 is 444 strength, 786 stam, 315 hit, and 301 mastery. The stats are lowered due to the socket, no surprise. Due to reforging and such I can say the socket can be hit but be counted as mastery rating for 320 plus the bonus for an extra 60 which leaves us with 681 mastery total. The 444 strength (466 after Kings) is .501% parry before DR.

    So it's:
    1075 strength, 786 stam, 355 hit, 341 mastery, and 1.129% parry versus
    466 strength, 786 stam, 315 hit, 681 mastery, and .489% parry which is a difference of:

    609 strength, 40 hit, and .639% parry (equal to 566.13 rating) in favor of the sha weapon and
    340 mastery (which is .566% mastery) in favor of the scimitar.

    Or I suppose it's possible through reforging to turn the comparative excess hit on the sha weapon into mastery which returns:

    609 strength and .639% parry versus
    300 mastery (.5% mastery).

    I'll leave that for anyone reading to decide which sounds better overall, taking into account the extra oomph strength gives SS and maybe WoG. Bit of a tough call isn't it?

    And I apologize if my strength to parry conversion is a bit off since it's late and all, but it's still off across the board so there won't be much of a change if I screwed up.
    Last edited by Jackielope; 2012-11-28 at 11:33 AM.
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  5. #165
    Force this matter to be discussed open in the guild and see what everyones opinion inside is about it, then make decision.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cahayla View Post
    I would really like some serious advice on if i should continue with my raiding guild, heres the run down on why im considering leaving.

    The people for the most part are people i like raiding with but one of our tanks is almost incompetent he takes forever to learn encounters, and he rolls on gear which is minor upgrade for him when it is a huge increase for dps. (healers arent having issues keeping him alive btw.)

    Tonight we downed amber shaper for the first time and the weapon that i need as a fury warrior dropped. I have an axe off elegon and a LFR sword from terrace. I also have 1400 valor to upgrade this weapon ive been waiting for sitting there and spent the whole raid waiting for that one item. When it dropped the tank (who sucks and is really holding our raid back in the first place and who is using a 489 elegon axe already) needed it because it had "more stam" and won and since we are using a roll system for some reason it went to him.

    Im guessing most of you can see the issue here when i asked why he needed it and said i think its dumb that he would even consider taking it over me he said i guess im dumb and wouldnt respond anymore at all. I just feel like this isn't good for advancement at all my GM said you can get it next time it drops which is a bad response since its not guaranteed obviously since i ran msv 6 full clears before going onto only HOF and the only time i got the weapon was from a token. i just feel like this isnt worth my time anymore.

    thanks for the opinions either good or bad lay it on me straight just dont troll please i want serious opinions only please.
    And why would you go with a roll system for loot decision? If you join a guild with those loot rules it's pretty much your own fault for accepting them. Either you take this up with the GM/Officer team and change the loot rules or you leave.
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  7. #167
    The whole point about who deserves it more is a little moot since I think the main issue is your guild's loot rules. We're quite a casual raiding guild and generally go by a /roll, but most will check what the person they are rolling against has. We also try to spread the drops over a raid. Otherwise you may as well be pugging really. For that sword I, playing a fury warrior, would be inclined to pass to the tanks since I also have the option of some 2-handers and our guild has been horribly unlucky with str weapon drops so we all still have 463s. In general though we've actually switched to priotising dps for gearing over tanks this tier since our tanks and healers have no issues, yet we often hit enrages.

  8. #168
    2012 still getting upset about loot rolls.

  9. #169
    You should push for a loot council system for your guild if you can, but being in a loot roll style guild you really can't complain all too much. And you also shouldn't have needed to even bring it up on an online forum, it is a consequence of being in a guild with loot rolls. I know that because I am in a loot roll guild myself, but I have been raiding with these guys since the very end of BC and we are a very tight group so I don't really mind how the loot gets distributed.

    My advice for you is do as I said earlier, push for a loot council. And if that doesn't work out it sounds like you do not have that much of a connection with you guild anyways by what it sounds like, so you can also just leave.

  10. #170
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noujou View Post
    such a lackluster and bad argument

    @OP yes i do think you should leave it, because a tank that (abet even a blood dk) that takes a weapon over a dps, especially if its a bigger upgrade is asshole tank, therefore i think you should leave OP
    Not really, if this is the only real issue he has with the guild that he lost a piece of loot then he has no real reason to think about quitting his guild. If he doesn't like the people or whatever he would have said that. He is mad he didn't get a piece of loot and is trying to justify leaving by saying the guy who got said item is bad and holding them back or whatever. If he had a legit reason I would say sure leave and find a new guild, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. People getting upset over loot is just kinda silly to me you spend all this time with these people and find such easy reasons to bail.

  11. #171
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Fix your loot rules, simple as that. We do a need v greed system, but me and the other plate wearer (A DK) normally pass over gear that, while good for both, is much better for the other. (Example, he gave me the chest off Garalon w/ hit+crit and I gave him the 496 belt off first boss in HoF) For weapons we both roll, but we also both use a token, so that if either wins a weapon with bonus loot, we both get a weapon. If a piece is MS DPS DPS take it. If its a major upgrade for one, he normally gets it.

    TL;DR, fix your loot rules.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    Not really, if this is the only real issue he has with the guild that he lost a piece of loot then he has no real reason to think about quitting his guild. If he doesn't like the people or whatever he would have said that. He is mad he didn't get a piece of loot and is trying to justify leaving by saying the guy who got said item is bad and holding them back or whatever. If he had a legit reason I would say sure leave and find a new guild, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. People getting upset over loot is just kinda silly to me you spend all this time with these people and find such easy reasons to bail.
    I think what this shows is lack of communication/consideration for each other. When something drops you look at everyone who can need it and try to figure out who will benefit from it the most, who does the guild need to do better, who has other possible upgrades available and how easy are those to get etc. I can only hope ppl these days don't raid in guilds for ilvl upgrades, but to beat the content. Random rolling is stupid in situation somebody would benefit much more from the item than other player.

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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Cahayla View Post
    no it is the one hand sword off amber shaper and the tank is a paladin (he had elegons 1 hand axe which is 7 ilvls lower)
    You are talking about http://www.wowdb.com/items/86219-sci...of-seven-stars which is a very big upgrade for the pally tank, he won the roll and tbh your complaints are selfish.

    You should be going for the Sha weapon together with the Elegon axe which you already have.

  14. #174
    Still think loot council is not a good idea. It is too subjective and it introduces things like personal likes/dislikes that inevitably will surface. And of course arguments like "he deserves it more" is bullshit IMO. Once more, if there is even one that "does not deserve loot" or "deserve loot LESS than an other" the do not bring her to raid. If you have to bring her because you have to fill the spot, tough luck; do recruit. Do not treat people like shit or promote elitism by giving loot to "someone that deserves it more...".

    People should be feel safe that there is a way to get their loot and not depend on loot council mood, GM's girlfriend whines or best buddy needing the sha touched gun.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    Still think loot council is not a good idea. It is too subjective and it introduces things like personal likes/dislikes that inevitably will surface. And of course arguments like "he deserves it more" is bullshit IMO. Once more, if there is even one that "does not deserve loot" or "deserve loot LESS than an other" the do not bring her to raid. If you have to bring her because you have to fill the spot, tough luck; do recruit. Do not treat people like shit or promote elitism by giving loot to "someone that deserves it more...".

    People should be feel safe that there is a way to get their loot and not depend on loot council mood, GM's girlfriend whines or best buddy needing the sha touched gun.
    Actually Rayaleth, for Fury warriors (SMF) BIS for normal raids is 496 Sha sword + 496 Scimitar, you can't have 2 legendary gems at one time so the socket of the scimitar makes it BIS as off-hand on normal mode.

    Actually, in this case, fury warrior also had his BIS off-hand drop. But considering your overall weapons, leave it to the tank. I have normal elegon + 463 heroic axe and i will still leave the sword to our tank, who has a 476 elegon axe atm. Maybe your case is a bit worse, the tank already having a 489 but since you are sporting a 483 off-hand, your in a much better place for the moment.

  16. #176
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    The point is: You want an item. You didn't get it - u nao no like teh other guy (who doesn't seem to be a useful player in the first place, if your description of him is correct).

    I'm a raidleader myself and by a wide margin loot-discussions are the most useless shit of all WoW. I am raiding with a mediocre 10 guild an a complete roster of 10.5 people. OF COURSE sometimes we have a hole in the team if somebody has serious RL-issues. But all of the 10 people share the same attitude towards items and thus the distribution is a part of the raid and more a thing of "hey who needs it most?".

    Nonetheless I think it is imperative that either

    A) Your raid has a very strict set of rules as to who gets what loot when or
    B) Your raid has a playerbase that distributes Loot by brain (we do it like that).

    I assume B is no option for your raid. I assume you are rolling with a way larger roster than my raid and thus simply cannot guarantee that everybody will get his even share of the loot by simply "talking it out". So I think you will have to see if your system of loot-distribution is something that can be arranged to everybody's needs. If loot is something you care about so much as that it will spoil your experience when somebody else gets it (undeservedly), than you must make sure that the rules are bulletproof.
    This way you still cannot guarantee a lootdrop just for you but you can at least arrange with the "loss" because it was "in the rules".

    TL/DR:
    Talk to your GM again and present a (in your eyes) bulletproof and fair system of loot distribution and (because you care about it) volunteer to keep track of it.

    This is by no means ment ironic or mean - I think loot is one of the most exciting parts in WoW but should have nothing to do with the motivation of being in a raid. I like my raid and my motivation in this raid is "killing that boss". But I know that the more people your raid has the more you have to consider the equal distribution of loot since not everybody shares the same motivations - and greed spoils theexperience for everybody (even the ones that take their motivation from killing bosses).
    Last edited by Fiercon; 2012-11-29 at 12:04 PM.

  17. #177
    Loot-whoring is bad and you should feel bad.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by AnarchyEU View Post
    tell them your reasons and then leave
    they sound like a bunch of incompetent tards
    I second this, without the retards part. But letting them know the flaws in their methods and leaving would do them some good, if they listen.

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