[Music] Why do people say 2pac was the best rapper ever?

[jreg]

why do people think rapping is music? why do they think it's challenging or requiring of talent anywhere near that of an actual singer/composer or songwriter that writes about more than drugs, sex and violence?

Sex, drugs and rock and roll.

But please, continue.

[JOHNMADDEN]

why do people think rapping is music? why do they think it's challenging or requiring of talent anywhere near that of an actual singer/composer or songwriter that writes about more than drugs, sex and violence?

can you honestly do either at any competitive level? no, sorry.

nothing but ignorance in this thread, shame on you guys.
pac was great. he was far from the best ever, or even the best alive at his time. lucky circumstances elevated him status-wise, and he stays elevated because one of those circumstances was him being murdered (as unfortunate as that is)

eminem is a phenomenal lyricist, his flow is stupid good, and his delivery overall has been very strong throughout his career. I would call him the best living rapper, and a lot of people would disagree with me. I welcome their arguments as long as they arent loaded with ignorance and contempt like those displayed in this thread.
kanye is potentially the best producer of all time. hes also underrated as a rapper.
there are tons and tons and tons of underground/unknown rappers out there that are as good as or better than every single mainstream MC you've ever heard of.

[Deleted]

why do people think rapping is music? why do they think it's challenging or requiring of talent anywhere near that of an actual singer/composer or songwriter that writes about more than drugs, sex and violence?

Yeah, rap is real music. There were poets in the past who had controversial lyrics (including shakespeare!) And if you think it's so easy I'm looking forward to your first Hip Hop Album^^. They put just as much work into their music as any other popular artist today. Granted, there may not be (many) Wolfgang Sebastians or Chopin's in the Hip Hop world, but until you listen to every last track every artist in the industry has offered you can't form a complete opinion on it. Besides, music appreciation depends on taste and is subjective. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its not good.

[Shiny212]

Yeah, rap is real music. There were poets in the past who had controversial lyrics (including shakespeare!) And if you think it's so easy I'm looking forward to your first Hip Hop Album^^. They put just as much work into their music as any other popular artist today. Granted, there may not be (many) Wolfgang Sebastians or Chopin's in the Hip Hop world, but until you listen to every last track every artist in the industry has offered you can't form a complete opinion on it. Besides, music appreciation depends on taste and is subjective. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its not good.

Let's see, an actual melody is not a requirement for rap, but that IS required for music, secondly, music implies singing, rappers don't sing, they talk in rapid succession, something ANYONE can do if they practice a little. Can anyone sing? NO, it's a talent that you either have or you don't. What else, ah yeah, you call them poets, I don't really know any rap lyrics by heart but it seems to me that most of it is anti-police, pro sexual innuendos and pro illegal drug-use, now find me a phrase involving any of those in a Shakespearean composition and I'll eat my words.

[Deleted]

Let's see, an actual melody is not a requirement for rap, but that IS required for music, secondly, music implies singing, rappers don't sing, they talk in rapid succession, something ANYONE can do if they practice a little. Can anyone sing? NO, it's a talent that you either have or you don't. What else, ah yeah, you call them poets, I don't really know any rap lyrics by heart but it seems to me that most of it is anti-police, pro sexual innuendos and pro illegal drug-use, now find me a phrase involving any of those in a Shakespearean composition and I'll eat my words.

Shakespeare is full of sexual innuendos. There is even a book devoted to them.
http://books.google.ie/books/about/S...UC&redir_esc=y

Also, if music implies singing, then by your definition, Beethoven's 5th does not qualify as music.

[MjH]

you real son? heard about Scholly D? Ice-T? N.W.A? Wu-Tang? Public Enemy?

fuck outta here lol

None of which were as "main stream" as 2pac other than MAYBE N.W.A son.. lawl gangsta talk on MMO-C forums gtfo outta here son

[Shiny212]

Shakespeare is full of sexual innuendos. There is even a book devoted to them.
http://books.google.ie/books/about/S...UC&redir_esc=y

Also, if music implies singing, then by your definition, Beethoven's 5th does not qualify as music.

....I see my words were wasted on you but just for arguments sake then, are said sexual references in Shakespeare's work comparable to..this?

Two to the one from the one to the three
I like good pussy and I like good trees
Smoke so much weed you wouldn't believe

found in a quick google search for rap lyrics..this is "eminem"

[jreg]

Let's see, an actual melody is not a requirement for rap, but that IS required for music, secondly, music implies singing...

There are no fucking requirements for music. And even if I were to entertain the idea that requirements do exist in music, yours are pants on head retarded. Melodies are required for music? So all dissonant work is a write off? Music implies singing? So no classical, ambient, instrumental or jazz? Those don't count?

...rappers don't sing, they talk in rapid succession, something ANYONE can do if they practice a little. Can anyone sing? NO, it's a talent that you either have or you don't.

I'd invite you to write a hip hop record then. I'll be waiting. The idea that anyone can rap but apparently you must be born with a special gift to sing is ludicrous. Because the Three Tenors just magically had those voices all along right? Didn't take years of training, no sir.

What else, ah yeah, you call them poets, I don't really know any rap lyrics by heart but it seems to me that most of it is anti-police, pro sexual innuendos and pro illegal drug-use, now find me a phrase involving any of those in a Shakespearean composition and I'll eat my words.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/commo...ctforlife.html

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/mosdef/hiphop.html

http://www.lyricstime.com/genius-gza...-e-lyrics.html

Realize you are this fucking retarded.

[Radoria]

I never once heard a person say he was the best rapper ever until he died. So I guess there's your answer. Dying when your popularity is at its peak ascends you to a new level of popularity. Don't get me wrong, I always liked the guy. He was certainly a talented rapper, but Eminem has incomparably more skill at rapping than 2Pac ever did, although you'll never hear a black person admit to that. It also helped 2Pac that he wrote a shit ton of songs that never got released until after he died. Also, Eminem can do a lot more with his voice than 2Pac ever could. 2Pac sounds the exact same in every single song. Again, don't get me wrong, he's gotta cool voice and he's got a lot of great stories to tell, but a little variety never hurt anyone. If 2Pac were alive today he wouldn't be anymore popular than Snoop Dogg or the most overrated rapper of all time, Lil Wayne.

---------- Post added 2012-11-29 at 02:42 PM ----------

They put just as much work into their music as any other popular artist today.

LMAO...thanks for the laugh. Bone wrote one of their songs in like half an hour.

[Shiny212]

There are no fucking requirements for music. And even if I were to entertain the idea that requirements do exist in music, yours are pants on head retarded. Melodies are required for music? So all dissonant work is a write off? Music implies singing? So no classical, ambient, instrumental or jazz? Those don't count?



I'd invite you to write a hip hop record then. I'll be waiting. The idea that anyone can rap but apparently you must be born with a special gift to sing is ludicrous. Because the Three Tenors just magically had those voices all along right? Didn't take years of training, no sir.



http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/commo...ctforlife.html

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/mosdef/hiphop.html

http://www.lyricstime.com/genius-gza...-e-lyrics.html

Realize you are this fucking retarded.

Yeah sorry, you need some semblance of melody for it to be music and when people with open mouths are involved they are to sing, not talk on top of drums. And of course singers train! But try to train a tone deaf person with no talent. Singing requires pre-existing god given talent, that's a fact.

Erm, I don't know what those links were supposed to prove? Bunch of nonsense with language I struggle making sense of. Example:

That I was payin', plus the prayin'
I didn't like stayin' cuz of bizzie-bodies
N' dizzy-hotties

Whaaaat? This is poetry to you?

can you honestly do either at any competitive level? no, sorry.

nothing but ignorance in this thread, shame on you guys.
pac was great. he was far from the best ever, or even the best alive at his time. lucky circumstances elevated him status-wise, and he stays elevated because one of those circumstances was him being murdered (as unfortunate as that is)

eminem is a phenomenal lyricist, his flow is stupid good, and his delivery overall has been very strong throughout his career. I would call him the best living rapper, and a lot of people would disagree with me. I welcome their arguments as long as they arent loaded with ignorance and contempt like those displayed in this thread.
kanye is potentially the best producer of all time. hes also underrated as a rapper.
there are tons and tons and tons of underground/unknown rappers out there that are as good as or better than every single mainstream MC you've ever heard of.

And I get more ass than a toilet seat
Three to the one from the one to the three
I met a bad bitch last night in the D

You're right, absolutely phenomenal. So meaningful.

[Deleted]

secondly, music implies singing, rappers don't sing, they talk in rapid succession, something ANYONE can do if they practice a little.

Congratulations on dismissing half of all musical genres as not qualifying as music due to your retarded definitions.
Your post even tops the OP. Can BadPaladin or Fuzzzie or someone else with an appreciation for decent music please ban this guy?

I never once heard a person say he was the best rapper ever until he died. So I guess there's your answer. Dying when your popularity is at its peak ascends you to a new level of popularity. Don't get me wrong, I always liked the guy. He was certainly a talented rapper, but Eminem has incomparably more skill at rapping than 2Pac ever did, although you'll never hear a black person admit to that. It also helped 2Pac that he wrote a shit ton of songs that never got released until after he died. Also, Eminem can do a lot more with his voice than 2Pac ever could. 2Pac sounds the exact same in every single song. Again, don't get me wrong, he's gotta cool voice and he's got a lot of great stories to tell, but a little variety never hurt anyone. If 2Pac were alive today he wouldn't be anymore popular than Snoop Dogg or the most overrated rapper of all time, Lil Wayne.

Eminem is garbage, at least today. His last decent album was the Eminem Show. Everything after that is trash.

Calling him the best rapper alive merely shows that one's knowledge of music is limited to the top 20 singles charts.

[jreg]

Yeah sorry, you need some semblance of melody for it to be music and when people with open mouths are involved they are to sing, not talk on top of drums.

No you don't you fucking moron. Music is literally just sound and silence. Stop applying your definition on an incredibly broad medium. That's like saying you need colour to have a movie, or recognizable objects to have art.

And of course singers train! But try to train a tone deaf person with no talent. Singing requires pre-existing god given talent, that's a fact.

Right, so you agree there are varying levels of ability? Go fucking figure. It's the same in hip hop. Stop using the lowest metric and figure to paint all of hip hop with a broad brush.

Erm, I don't know what those links were supposed to prove? Bunch of nonsense with language I struggle making sense of. Example:

That I was payin', plus the prayin'
I didn't like stayin' cuz of bizzie-bodies
N' dizzy-hotties

Whaaaat? This is poetry to you?

Being too stupid to interpret lyrics doesn't mean the lyrics are bad. The fault lies with you.

I'll help you out though;

His family is poor, they live in poverty. They seek help by going to to church and he's done so for as far as he can remember because his parents want to raise him Christian. They believe it'll will raise him as a good man, and drive him away from street violence and gangs. But is it worth it? Is it helping? Can a child really appreciate the scripture, the lessons, and the stories? All he remembers is the money his parents paid (which they could barely afford), the incessant praying, the fact that it seemed like every time they went to church, it was about comparing status than seeking God, and as a child entering puberty, all the pretty girls from the other families. He wants to be able to tell his own story, to experience life and be open minded. It's hard when he has to meet the divide of what his parents want, and what he believes; and he sees religion as nothing but a dividing force.

It's not that hard.

[Longview]

Let's see, an actual melody is not a requirement for rap, but that IS required for music

Holy batmanfalse.

secondly, music implies singing

Straight up false.

rappers don't sing, they talk in rapid succession, something ANYONE can do if they practice a little.

Some do both, some emcees solely sing. False.

Can anyone sing? NO, it's a talent that you either have or you don't.

Anyone can sing. Anyone can train their voice with professional help. Singing well is another matter completely, and usually a question of preference rather than hitting notes. False.

I don't really know any rap lyrics by heart

Then why the fuck are you replying to this thread? What great insight do you have to share to help shed light on these social issues of emcees destroying our precious youth?

but it seems to me that most of it is anti-police, pro sexual innuendos and pro illegal drug-use, now find me a phrase involving any of those in a Shakespearean composition and I'll eat my words.

Shakespeare is not at all different from modern entertainment. It may be in a unfamiliar dialect but it has sex, violence, drugs, and even low-brow humor. It is not a "higher" form of literature, it was written to entertain mostly uneducated and illiterate people.

Furthermore, you are wasting not only your own time - but the time of others by spewing near-coherent straw man arguments not based in reality. You do not even have a shallow understanding of hip-hop. That's all right though, hit me with some more lines about bitches and weed and money and hoes (fuck the police LOL!!).

But try to train a tone deaf person with no talent. Singing requires pre-existing god given talent, that's a fact.

Have you actually heard any album from any artist that is on any label bar Warner, EMI, BMG, Sony or Universal? I struggle to believe there are people this delusional about music in general while still arguing.

[Deleted]

No you don't you fucking moron. Music is literally just sound and silence. Stop applying your definition on an incredibly broad medium. That's like saying you need colour to have a movie, or recognizable objects to have art.

Right, so you agree there are varying levels of ability? Go fucking figure. It's the same in hip hop. Stop using the lowest metric and figure to paint all of hip hop with a broad brush.



Being too stupid to interpret lyrics doesn't mean the lyrics are bad. The fault lies with you.

I'll help you out though;

His family is poor, they live in poverty. They seek help by going to to church and he's done so for as far as he can remember because his parents want to raise him Christian. They believe it'll will raise him as a good man, and drive him away from street violence and gangs. But is it worth it? Is it helping? Can a child really appreciate the scripture, the lessons, and the stories? All he remembers is the money his parents paid (which they could barely afford), the incessant praying, the fact that it seemed like every time they went to church, it was about comparing status than seeking God, and as a child entering puberty, all the pretty girls from the other families. He wants to be able to tell his own story, to experience life and be open minded. It's hard when he has to meet the divide of what his parents want, and what he believes; and he sees religion as nothing but a dividing force.

It's not that hard.

Judging by his/her posts, I seriously doubt they have the ability to analyse musical lyrics.

But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Shiny2012, go listen to "Good Kid, M.A.A.D City" from start to finish, and if you still think Hip Hop does not qualify as a musical genre then go play in front of a cement mixer or something.

Good Kid, M.A.A.D City: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpZk5n_vZwk

[foolishness]

Pac is the greatest rapper of all time because he wasn't just a soulless party anthem mc. He definitely had those tracks that weren't anything more than being thug but he dipped way below the surface and offered emotional depth.

[Radoria]

Eminem is garbage, at least today. His last decent album was the Eminem Show. Everything after that is trash.

Calling him the best rapper alive merely shows that one's knowledge of music is limited to the top 20 singles charts.[/QUOTE]


I'm not saying Eminem is the best rapper alive. I'm saying he's EASILY, the best rapper of all time. The Eminem Show wasn't decent, it was fucking amazing. I admit his music has gone downhill over the years, but only in comparison to what he released prior to it. I don't know where you're going with the top 20 singles comment. I don't follow that shit at all. If you're a fan of Lil Wayne I wish to end this debate immediately because your opinion means nothing to me.

[foolishness]

And if you're looking for something that should qualify rap as music then you should look into Shad. Although if you have such a cynical view on rap/hiphop then nothing will probably appease you.

[Deleted]

I'm not saying Eminem is the best rapper alive. I'm saying he's EASILY, the best rapper of all time.

Gave me a good laugh.

The Eminem Show wasn't decent, it was fucking amazing. I admit his music has gone downhill over the years, but only in comparison to what he released prior to it. I don't know where you're going with the top 20 singles comment. I don't follow that shit at all. If you're a fan of Lil Wayne I wish to end this debate immediately because your opinion means nothing to me.

First of all, I am neither an Eminem nor a Lil Wayne fan. I generally don't listen to top 20 crappy rapers like the 2 of them.

Eminem's lyrical content, delivery and wordplay is slightly above par at best. Furthermore, his skill has rapidly declined ever since his hiatus from music. He is a well packaged "artist", that effectively appeals to a certain demographic to sell records. He's a good rapper, that USED TO make good music.

But as for calling him the greatest ever, that's just a complete and utter joke. Even Eminem himself wouldn't make such a claim as he'd be quickly laughed out of the room.

[Longview]

I'm saying he's EASILY, the best rapper of all time.

Please stop posting. This thread is not about Eminem. Listing him as the "best ever" just puts your shallow taste on display.

[Xyanide]

Tupac the best? Who the fuck says that? No one I know, and we're all big hip-hop heads.... Top 10? without a doubt, but the best? No.