1. #1

    So, 2hand frost gemming with 4set

    I got starshatter HC last night and fully upgraded it to 510 ilvl, very happy DK here.
    Anyhow my question is about gemming as 2 hand frost, Iam sitting around 485 ilvl with 4 set bonus, is haste really better to gem? considering 4 set bonus?
    Looking on the top dks with 4 set bonus they all gem stre even tho their 2 hand frost, Keep in mind that they have perfect gear, such as pretty much full bis.
    They have more haste with Stre gems than I do with full haste gems lol.
    What´s your thoughts?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Strength will always be valued better then haste, in red slots gem strength, in yellow you need to simm yourself. But even if you don't want to simm I would suggest in yellow to just gem +80 strength 160 haste. At least for me +320 haste outweights by a bit the +80 strength 160 haste but on AoE fights the strength will even it out.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm View Post
    Strength will always be valued better then haste, in red slots gem strength, in yellow you need to simm yourself. But even if you don't want to simm I would suggest in yellow to just gem +80 strength 160 haste. At least for me +320 haste outweights by a bit the +80 strength 160 haste but on AoE fights the strength will even it out.
    This isn't entirely accurate, yes str with always be better for haste "Point for Point" but this doesn't factor in that you get 2 haste for every 1 str point through gemming, there is a poitn at which 2 points of haste are worth more than 1 point of str.
    Too find if your at this thought ou;ll need to sim it out with stat weights for str and ahste, if haste x2 has a higher weight than 1 str (for example str is worth 2.6 per point and haste is worth 1.5 per point, therefore making 2 haste points stronger than str) then you are better off re gemming for haste, so pure haste in yellow slots, str+haste in red and haste+hit in blue.
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  4. #4
    Terrace is full of things to get free runic power from, which makes haste gemming worse than it looks in simcraft.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarosia View Post
    This isn't entirely accurate, yes str with always be better for haste "Point for Point" but this doesn't factor in that you get 2 haste for every 1 str point through gemming, there is a poitn at which 2 points of haste are worth more than 1 point of str.
    Too find if your at this thought ou;ll need to sim it out with stat weights for str and ahste, if haste x2 has a higher weight than 1 str (for example str is worth 2.6 per point and haste is worth 1.5 per point, therefore making 2 haste points stronger than str) then you are better off re gemming for haste, so pure haste in yellow slots, str+haste in red and haste+hit in blue.
    Ofc, I get this too, But take in act that the 4 set is sick imo, 5% more stre every 1 min thats quite alotisnt it. gems give about 1000more stre, if not more depending on gear. Iam not sure how haste take that.

    another thing is with 4 set bonus, askmrobot, wants me to use the JC Stre gem over the JC Haste gem, which I ofc understand.

    But still..

    More thoughts?

  6. #6
    My opinion:

    The debate whether to gem strength or haste is all well and good in the world of sims and patchwerk style fights but at the end of the day most encounters have some multiple target element to them and in reality you will very rarely carry out a "simmed rotation" on any fight. So gem strength to maximise your dps on 90% of the current content, and try not to lose sleep over that 0.5% dps you might lose out on if all the stars align and you're granted full uptime on a boss...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarosia View Post
    This isn't entirely accurate, yes str with always be better for haste "Point for Point" but this doesn't factor in that you get 2 haste for every 1 str point through gemming, there is a poitn at which 2 points of haste are worth more than 1 point of str.
    Too find if your at this thought ou;ll need to sim it out with stat weights for str and ahste, if haste x2 has a higher weight than 1 str (for example str is worth 2.6 per point and haste is worth 1.5 per point, therefore making 2 haste points stronger than str) then you are better off re gemming for haste, so pure haste in yellow slots, str+haste in red and haste+hit in blue.
    But even if you don't want to simm I would suggest in yellow to just gem +80 strength 160 haste.
    What point didn't you understand. If he doesn't want to simm it to find out, he should just stick with that gemming. Else depending on scale go for haste. But he also need to keep in mind that haste will boost his DPS on single target while due to strength lacking all his AoE will be lower. And since we do have a lot of AoE scenarios this tier, that +80 strength 160 haste gem is very overall good.

  8. #8
    At low gear levels you want to gem haste , once you get higher , start gemming strength / haste

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Enu View Post
    At low gear levels you want to gem haste , once you get higher , start gemming strength / haste
    Well that's just flat out wrong in terms of DPS but might make Frost feel better at low Haste ratings. Strength gemming is your starting point, as you advance in item level Haste eventually over takes it for single target. At ilvl 486 as Frost 2H with RE, Strength gemming still sims out better than Haste gemming but it's very close now. I've found BT also raises the value of Haste whenever I've simmed with BT to see how much DPS I'm potentially losing out on.

    Regardless Strength gemming is better in cleave scenarios and there are alot of those in this tier as well as fairly persistent sources of magic damage to soak RP with AMS which diminishes Hastes value.

    I was mucking about with Haste gemming last week and reached about 9.6k Haste. It was fun because it took some fairly awful RNG to get me Rune locked but I saw a slight DPS decrease. Didn't exactly help that we are working on HoF right now which favors Strength gemming massively from Garalon onwards because everything seems to be a cleave with a reliable way to soak RP once you get rune locked.

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