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  1. #21
    Mechagnome veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    It's been in multiple blue post. It just wasn't in the patch notes for some reason. You can go look at any log and see the increase, it's fairly significant. Just compare mind sear dmg with this weeks logs and last weeks logs. Look at the average dmg on hits. Obviously, if you have attained new gear this might be a little bit skewed but you can go through multiple logs and get an average of how much it has increased for our total dmg done. They increased the scaling on it to what I "think" is ~30% sp now(I'm not sure if that is the correct number but I know it's between 25-30%).
    Ye, both Ariadne and me noticed a significant increase in it's damage since the patch. Surprised us straight off the bat, on the 1st few trash packs in HoF, and we kinnda whispered each other at the same time about it, so I went on looking for a blue post or whatnot about it, but failed to find anything. I know it was already boosted once, so I thought they were just doing a tooltip update on the patch, but it turns out I am wrong. It was on Wednesday tho, and I was lazy to look for it since.
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    so I went on looking for a blue post or whatnot about it, but failed to find anything.
    There wasn't a blue post about it.
    The only comment from GC about that change was this: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...16212146446336

    So the change might not be in the notes, because it never was intended. Maybe somebody just screwed up when he fixed the bugged Mindsear Mastery ticks and buffed the normal spell in addition to the mastery.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    Ye, both Ariadne and me noticed a significant increase in it's damage since the patch. Surprised us straight off the bat, on the 1st few trash packs in HoF, and we kinnda whispered each other at the same time about it, so I went on looking for a blue post or whatnot about it, but failed to find anything. I know it was already boosted once, so I thought they were just doing a tooltip update on the patch, but it turns out I am wrong. It was on Wednesday tho, and I was lazy to look for it since.
    It also seems to begin ticking sooner as well.

  4. #24
    First of, I think shadow is fine. I'm happy were we are now.
    I'm comparing to my guilds' mage and warlock. It's usually us three fighting for the top spot on damage, and me being first isn't unusual.
    Either way we all have decent gear by now, 392-395 or something. I still keep up, and they're not bad players in any way.
    Sounds harsh but I think this is some learn to play issues for a few of you out there, no offense.

    We do have problems but no class is perfect, it's all situational.
    The lack of burst is sometimes annoying, but we're tuned around it, and it has its pros and cons.
    And AoE is a bit weak, I'll agree with that.
    I have no clue why they didn't fix the mastery bug for mind sear, it would have bumped it up a tiny bit atleast.

    On top of this I can't tell you how much the healers love my Halo and Vampiric Embrace.
    Heck I've been Shadow since TBC, I made my Shadowpriest to help the raid.
    I'm one of those who'll gladly give up the number 1 spot to bring some extra utility, which in all fairness we do. Halo is strong!


    The difference between a good and a bad Shadowpriest isn't just dps. It's well timed and well positioned Halos, good use of Hymn of Hope and VE as well, for example.
    Last edited by Juicebox; 2012-12-01 at 01:03 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    First of, I think shadow is fine. I'm happy were we are now.
    I'm comparing to my guilds' mage and warlock. It's usually us three fighting for the top spot on damage, and me being first isn't unusual.
    Either way we all have decent gear by now, 392-395 or something. I still keep up, and they're not bad players in any way.
    Sounds harsh but I think this is some learn to play issues for a few of you out there, no offense.

    We do have problems but no class is perfect, it's all situational.
    The lack of burst is sometimes annoying, but we're tuned around it, and it has its pros and cons.
    And AoE is a bit weak, I'll agree with that.
    I have no clue why they didn't fix the mastery bug for mind sear, it would have bumped it up a tiny bit atleast.

    On top of this I can't tell you how much the healers love my Halo and Vampiric Embrace.
    Heck I've been Shadow since TBC, I made my Shadowpriest to help the raid.
    I'm one of those who'll gladly give up the number 1 spot to bring some extra utility, which in all fairness we do. Halo is strong!


    The difference between a good and a bad Shadowpriest isn't just dps. It's well timed and well positioned Halos, good use of Hymn of Hope and VE as well, for example.
    With all due respect, the ones that need to know how to play their respective classes, are your guildmates. Isn't like there's a small difference between a good shadow priest and a good warlock / mage, there's a very noticeable difference between top classes and mid-low tier clases like shadow priest. I'm not saying it, THIS is saying it:

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...an_Vaults/dps/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...t_of_Fear/dps/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ss_Spring/dps/

    You must realize that your local dps scenario is just a bubble. You are more than welcome if you wanna show us your Shadow priest ranks from this tier and your mage/lock ranks as well. I'll do the same thing, both of my partners (mage/lock) have world first ranks on a few fights, so you can imagine how "bad" they are.

    Cheers.

  6. #26
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/792...ch_51_Hotfixes

    Mages are getting hit really, really hard. It's a very significant dps loss. Lock will still be way up there tho.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I just can not take this serious
    With a picture like that in your mind its quite hard to take anything serious

    But thansk for all the great feedback and ideas, and it seems when it comes down to the general opinion, most shadowpriests think we need a small boost / some tweaks.
    Either if its the Dots or MF (I liked the idea about shadowform +5% damage from 20>25% but that wouldnt work out so good i think) Or if they look into and redesign our mastery, It could be much better then what it is now.

  8. #28
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    So many things didn't make it onto the patch notes. It's not surprising that the Mind Sear change was just one more item that was missed by Daxxarri.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-30 at 11:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chora View Post
    With all due respect, the ones that need to know how to play their respective classes, are your guildmates. Isn't like there's a small difference between a good shadow priest and a good warlock / mage, there's a very noticeable difference between top classes and mid-low tier clases like shadow priest. I'm not saying it, THIS is saying it:

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...an_Vaults/dps/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...t_of_Fear/dps/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ss_Spring/dps/

    You must realize that your local dps scenario is just a bubble. You are more than welcome if you wanna show us your Shadow priest ranks from this tier and your mage/lock ranks as well. I'll do the same thing, both of my partners (mage/lock) have world first ranks on a few fights, so you can imagine how "bad" they are.

    Cheers.
    By the way, here's an easier way of looking at the logs if you want to be making your arguments: Raidbots' DPSbot.
    Last edited by Aica; 2012-12-01 at 05:50 AM.
    {[( )]}

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    By the way, here's an easier way of looking at the logs if you want to be making your arguments: Raidbots' DPSbot.
    Yeah, for some reason people keep comparing us to fire mages and aff and not other classes. Both aff and fire mages are dominating all other classes not just shadow. shadow's numbers are fine. They could be a little bit better on single target but other than that we really are in a fine spot right now.

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Chora View Post
    With all due respect, the ones that need to know how to play their respective classes, are your guildmates. Isn't like there's a small difference between a good shadow priest and a good warlock / mage, there's a very noticeable difference between top classes and mid-low tier clases like shadow priest. I'm not saying it, THIS is saying it:

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...an_Vaults/dps/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...t_of_Fear/dps/
    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ss_Spring/dps/

    You must realize that your local dps scenario is just a bubble. You are more than welcome if you wanna show us your Shadow priest ranks from this tier and your mage/lock ranks as well. I'll do the same thing, both of my partners (mage/lock) have world first ranks on a few fights, so you can imagine how "bad" they are.

    Cheers.
    I only compare against my guildmates because they are the "target classes"; Mage and Warlock.
    If we're really going to compare though we should be compared to Moonkins and Elementals.
    They are the ones we fight for a spot with, since we all bring the 5% spellhaste.

    Like I said, I'm happy being below other classes if my utility means I'm more valuable. But here's the thing. I'm not always below them and yet the utility I bring is almost always stronger than theirs.
    An example; http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...?s=5579&e=6005
    Compare me to the Moonkin. See the difference? Can't tell you how much my healers love my Halo on that fight as well.
    Utility wise, Shadow wins. DPS wise, Shadow wins... And this fight is far from a rare occasion.


    Anyway, can I get a hallelujah?
    Mind Sear damage generated by Shadow Priest Mastery: Shadowy Recall has been increased to match Mind Sear normal damage.
    Last edited by Juicebox; 2012-12-01 at 03:40 PM.

  11. #31
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    Like I said, I'm happy being below other classes if my utility means I'm more valuable. But here's the thing. I'm not always below them and yet the utility I bring is almost always stronger than theirs.
    An example; http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...?s=5579&e=6005
    Compare me to the Moonkin. See the difference? Can't tell you how much my healers love my Halo on that fight as well.
    Utility wise, Shadow wins. DPS wise, Shadow wins... And this fight is far from a rare occasion.
    I don't know about your raid, but in our raid, we have to completely stop dps on the Wind Blades way before we have enough Resin to make the Amber Traps. This makes everyone's dps done to the adds essentially useless for comparison, and only the damage that matters is on Shek'zeer herself.

    This may change for heroic.
    Last edited by Aica; 2012-12-01 at 06:42 PM.
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  12. #32
    I'd like to feel not embarassed when i decide to go shadow for a raid night.

  13. #33
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    I'd like to feel not embarassed when i decide to go shadow for a raid night.
    Possibly you should play the spec better, then.
    {[( )]}

  14. #34
    Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

    I hear what you're saying, and I agree to a certain degree. In terms of our PvP play, Shadow priests are one of these strongest casters out there in my opinion. By that, I'm referring to our crazy amount of utility, coupled with our pent up burst. We may not have shatter burst like a mage, or avatar like a warrior, but our burst is significant when applied correctly. In many duels, I struggle to lose against most classes, even with out overpowered some of them seem. Only class I've ever had difficulty facing were Warriors and Mages, but that was pre 5.1 and I still gave them hell before. With the added spellsteal nerfs, I imagine we duel a lot better versus most mages, and the roots on a warrior is a great escape mechanic for us. Honestly in terms of PvP, besides what seems like a nerf to Spectral Guise, we're still very good in PvP.

    In terms of PvE though, I have to agree, we're not AS strong as other caster classes which isn't to say we're weak. We do have our fights were our DPs shines, but I feel our greatest weakness is in single target only. Many other classes will beat us out easily as other people have mentioned. And with regards to AoE fights like Stone Guard, yes a fire mage will beat us, but I still give other classes hell. Perhaps blizzard will see us.

  15. #35
    I play Shadow main, and I have to say that I feel the only place I lack is single target, I think that what someone posted about mindflay buff would be great, just a small percent so that our numbers are a little improved, but we do have value as more than just dps numbers. I think another useful but small buff that would prove shadow's viability is if Cascade jumped to heal the raid after it hit the maximum available enemies. I know I might not be the best priest or anything, but I usually come very close to other classes in damage, but I also way out heal them.

    I think the main problem is that the player base tends to look too much at recount and not enough at raid value. I can't tell you the amount of times I've had to save someone with leap of faith, or if I had to start flash healing to keep people up for the last percent of a bosses health. Not to mention how much healers love my hymn every fight. I don't think it's a learn to play issue for most people, shadow is easier now then at least during dragon soul with the 4piece, I honestly think that people look purely at recount DPS too much, just for funsies ask your healers what their thoughts are.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by xSoulx View Post
    What about slightly buffing Shadowform? Something like - "Shadow damage you deal increased by 25%. All damage you take reduced by 15%".
    I'd rather see Mindblast scale with Haste; I also hear rumors about DP's awful scaling, and I suspect those are true as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham
    First of, I think shadow is fine. I'm happy were we are now.
    I'm comparing to my guilds' mage and warlock. It's usually us three fighting for the top spot on damage, and me being first isn't unusual.
    I think your guild needs better DPS classes. Locks and Mages blow Spriests out of the water...and they aren't the only ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    The difference between a good and a bad Shadowpriest isn't just dps. It's well timed and well positioned Halos, good use of Hymn of Hope and VE as well, for example.
    VE I'll give you, and Halo the benefit of the doubt, but if you're guild is bring you for Hymn of Hope...I don't know what to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    Possibly you should play the spec better, then.
    Cruel, but probably true :P
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-12-02 at 05:59 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    I think your guild needs better DPS classes. Locks and Mages blow Spriests out of the water...and they aren't the only ones.

    VE I'll give you, and Halo the benefit of the doubt, but if you're guild is bring you for Hymn of Hope...I don't know what to say.
    I beg to differ. If you can't beat yours I'd say you're the one being bad. Take a look at raidbot and compare, boss by boss.

    Also, if you think I'm brought because of one ability you're mistaken. I'm brought because I do my role damn good, which is dpsing, and I'm able to use my abilities for the raids benefit while doing so. If you're not using hymn if needed (I play 10, I think this doesn't apply to 25 to the same degree) then you're doing it wrong.

  18. #38
    If you outdps similarly geared warlocks and mages on single target fights, they just plain suck.

    It is simply no contest right now. On straight up single target, any good fire mage will demolish you. Same goes for warlocks.

    You need around 10-12 average item levels higher to be on equal footing with a fire mage. Class tuning is about math. Their math is superior to ours. There's nothing more to it, really. They are overtuned, and we are mediocre.

  19. #39
    Spriest that use rng build simply aren't gonna have consistent results. I've noticed quite a few use it as well and they wonder why the dps isn't that great. I haven't seen anything in the notes if Blizzard fixed the sw:i bugs does anyone know anything about it?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ch4ppy View Post
    In Addition you have to look into Warlock and Mage for what they can do other than dps ... A priest is by far more viable for raiding cause of Hymne of Hope , Halo-Heal and survivability. You can even 2ndspec switch to healing if its necessary. You can't do any of this shit as Mage/Warlock (pure Damage class).
    Hybrid-tax is supposed to be long gone by now. You are supposed to fulfill a role that you can fill just as well as any pure classes (I guess it only applies to DPS now since Priests aren't the main healers and Warriors aren't the main tanks anymore.
    / ztanz
    <Nice picture with my armory for Elskling on Ragnaros>

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