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  1. #1

    Elegon 10N - Help Please

    We started raiding slightly later than most this tier, but even considering that we are still having trouble getting this boss down after several weeks of attempts. The most recent log is here. The best attempt we have ever done is this one, which got Elegon down to about 10%. However on that attempt we were some 15 seconds away from enrage.

    On that attempt we had a raid dps of 659,309 and a raid hps of 165,526. When I compare this to the averages for kills on this page, I see that we are about 100k dps below the average, while being 15k hps above the average.

    I know that the healing required will get less as people get better at their roles, and in the same way the average kill dps is probably boosted by people doing this on farm. I just have nothing else to go on, as I do not know the other classes well enough or their expected dps. The guild armory is here if you want to look people up.

  2. #2
    What I can see that your monk tank is doing way too low dps. He is using Tiger Palm way too often (86? what for?) while his Keg Smash button is gathering dust (9 during whole fight?). Also imo his spec is wrong for this fight, I'd suggest: chi wave (healing + dmg) instead of zen sphere, Diffuse Magic instead of dampen harm (and make him use it during breaths) and glyph guard so it blocks magic dmg only. Elegon's melee is not a problem, the spike that comes from breath and add explosion is. Also make his spec Xuen instead of Rushing Jade Wind, as he should not tank the adds during pylon phase. They hit like a truck, he should aggro them and stun/kite them if he has more then one on him. Xuen is a great for dpsing the boss during orb phases.
    Last edited by Vasilisa; 2012-11-27 at 10:04 AM.

  3. #3
    this guide will help your tanks to be more good
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post19232570

    and if u facing a problem with the dps i think u didnt kill enough sparks

  4. #4
    Dreadlord
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    Quick look at your log, your dps is fine.

    Get atleast 3 sparks down each p2, and in last phase, kill all leftover adds, reset your debuff, stack up and nuke. A lot of people go straight from p3, stack up and nuke boss+adds. Which will lead to a lot of add dmg to players, less dps on boss and more debuff stacks in the end. Killing the adds off before and resetting the stacks, will lead to more focused dps on elegon while bl/hero/tw is up, less debuffs and easier to handle.
    Shaman since Vanilla. All the way !

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Halland's Avatar
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    DK needs to use soul reaper more, and Dancing Rune Weapon as close to on CD as possible

  6. #6
    How many orbs are you doing? Should be at least 4/4 to get 10 stacks and meet the enrage. Also, after the last orbs you kill people should stay on the boss for the next orb.
    A good measure if your dps is enough is in phase 1 already. You should get him to 85% with 2 adds, and next time to 50% with three. If you can do that, you'll have no problems with enrage. If not, you need to step up your dps. When the last phase begins, the boss should have no more than 35% HP. However your dps numbers don't look too low to me.

    In the phase transition, no-one should die from adds. You can slow them and have everyone move to the middle, then kill them before they arrive. In the last phase, ranged dps should reset their stacks. Your healers don't look like they can pull you through without resetting, so it will be easier to set up a ranged+healer camp at the edge and frequently reset stacks during the last phase. The tanks should be resetting all the time anyway.

    Edit: Make sure your healers go into the last phase with near 100% mana so they can spam like hell.
    Last edited by Thalur; 2012-11-27 at 10:13 AM.

  7. #7
    Definitely try to get 4 / 4 waves of sparks down for +100% dmg on boss. Use pots / 2+ minute CDs on the 4th wave if you have to. 10% extra boss damage for the rest of the encounter is much more valuable than the potion or CD you used.

    For the adds, have your DK spec Chillbains and Glyph of Death and Decay. You want them perma-slowed and have your tank kite them while holding aggro so DPS can AoE them down on the platform.

  8. #8
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...3268#tab-auras

    Elegon got 10 stacks of draw power, as we were doing 4 sparks on each phase and then trying to burn the boss while the 5th set travelled. However the draw power only grants 5% extra damage per stack - how can you get +100%?

    Thanks for all the help

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 11:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    How many orbs are you doing? Should be at least 4/4 to get 10 stacks and meet the enrage. Also, after the last orbs you kill people should stay on the boss for the next orb.
    A good measure if your dps is enough is in phase 1 already. You should get him to 85% with 2 adds, and next time to 50% with three. If you can do that, you'll have no problems with enrage. If not, you need to step up your dps. When the last phase begins, the boss should have no more than 35% HP. However your dps numbers don't look too low to me.

    Edit: Make sure your healers go into the last phase with near 100% mana so they can spam like hell.
    We had 2 adds the first time around, but the second time it was 4. Also the priest entered the last phase with almost no mana, and I wasn't great either. Does that mean its more a mana management issue?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Diviciacus View Post
    We had 2 adds the first time around, but the second time it was 4. Also the priest entered the last phase with almost no mana, and I wasn't great either. Does that mean its more a mana management issue?
    Your raid certainly needs a lot more healing than what I see in our kills. Your raid is at 182k damage taken per second, while ours only had 150k. The 4th add during the second phase 1 certainly is one of the reasons, but also your tanks take a lot more damage, make sure they use their CDs frequently (esp. during Breath). You do have more melees though, make sure they reset their stacks before an add explosion.

    For me, phase 1 is almost mana neutral (with Innervate). You can use Mushrooms in the ranged/healer camp after an explosion, the rest can be done by SM/WG. Use Healing Tide of your Shaman after each first explosion. Have people use personal CDs like Barkskin (when HT is on CD). The perfect time for a Potion of Focus is during the 5th orb wave right before phase 3. I usually have almost 100% mana after that and Innervate up soon.

    Our healing logs for Elegon look pretty similar, if you want to take a look: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=5292&e=5836
    Edit: Your lifebloom uptime looks a bit low though.
    Last edited by Thalur; 2012-11-27 at 11:58 AM.

  10. #10
    We had the same problems, a good healing team with an average dps team. Some tips to share:
    - pre-potting is very valuable on this fight unless the phase 2 starts soon after the 2nd protector comes.
    - One dps per orb in P2, if you can find a way to put one dps or 2 focusing the boss during the first/second wave that's better, the tank should be able to kill an orb of the 1st and maybe the 2nd wave. Anyway the tank should adapt to help the weakest dps. Everyone should be de-stacking between each wave, to save healers mana.
    - one dps per pilar in P3 and a good communication in order to have almost all pilars down at the same time (note that some pilar may pop later, in general we have the last pilar poping while the first one is around 50%) So tanks should focus that one. This strategy seems to limit the number of sparks. We had the issue of having like 10 sparks poping at the same side, with this strategy we're having 4 to 6 sparks only with 2/3 sparks to finish when coming back.
    - Everyone stacking on the boss during the last phase with tanks rolling CD and swapping when no CD are left.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    Your raid certainly needs a lot more healing than what I see in our kills. Your raid is at 182k damage taken per second, while ours only had 150k. The 4th add during the second phase 1 certainly is one of the reasons, but also your tanks take a lot more damage, make sure they use their CDs frequently (esp. during Breath). You do have more melees though, make sure they reset their stacks before an add explosion.

    For me, phase 1 is almost mana neutral (with Innervate). You can use Mushrooms in the ranged/healer camp after an explosion, the rest can be done by SM/WG. Use Healing Tide of your Shaman after each first explosion. Have people use personal CDs like Barkskin (when HT is on CD). The perfect time for a Potion of Focus is during the 5th orb wave right before phase 3. I usually have almost 100% mana after that and Innervate up soon.

    Our healing logs for Elegon look pretty similar, if you want to take a look: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=5292&e=5836
    Edit: Your lifebloom uptime looks a bit low though.
    Yeah, I need to keep my lifebloom up a bit more. I think it was dropping off during the pillar phases mostly, but it wasn't that great during the other phases so definately something to work on.

    I did actually find that my mana was a lot more manageable during this set of tries. The first cycle usually ends with me at about 80%+ after the pillars, while the second one has me more at 60%. I was using pots of focus during the first pillars but on one of the pulls I ended up capping mana then, so I might start using it on the second cycle.

    I'm not sure about the priest though, because when we did get to the last phase he was totally out of mana. Are there any priest tips you can give that might help him? I think he has a bit more trouble healing the dps on his side while they are killing the draw power sparks and the pillar adds.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 01:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanno View Post
    We had the same problems, a good healing team with an average dps team. Some tips to share:
    - pre-potting is very valuable on this fight unless the phase 2 starts soon after the 2nd protector comes.
    - One dps per orb in P2, if you can find a way to put one dps or 2 focusing the boss during the first/second wave that's better, the tank should be able to kill an orb of the 1st and maybe the 2nd wave. Anyway the tank should adapt to help the weakest dps. Everyone should be de-stacking between each wave, to save healers mana.
    - one dps per pilar in P3 and a good communication in order to have almost all pilars down at the same time (note that some pilar may pop later, in general we have the last pilar poping while the first one is around 50%) So tanks should focus that one. This strategy seems to limit the number of sparks. We had the issue of having like 10 sparks poping at the same side, with this strategy we're having 4 to 6 sparks only with 2/3 sparks to finish when coming back.
    - Everyone stacking on the boss during the last phase with tanks rolling CD and swapping when no CD are left.
    Heh, I'm not really sure if the healing team is that good. In this thread people have talked about the tank problems, the healing problems, but the dps seem to be getting off lightly. Anyway.

    The tanks are assisting the lowest dps with the sparks, and any dps that kills their spark early can help as well. Most of the tries we were getting 4 sparks a cycle down pretty reliably (sometimes people had RNG problems on 4th spark, but most of the time it was fine).

    Is there a way to check the logs to see how many pillar adds were up? There do seem to be a lot and I have to run around a lot to avoid getting hit.

  12. #12
    High Overlord riccaz's Avatar
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    The pillars need to go down very very fast in order to make an easy kill, they should be down under 20 sec imo, also you seem to have alot of melee wich isn't optimal, we had a few melee quitters so we took in 2 more shadow priests and we got it down first try with that setup. only have one melee wich is a dk that spreads diseases on orbs

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Diviciacus View Post
    I'm not sure about the priest though, because when we did get to the last phase he was totally out of mana. Are there any priest tips you can give that might help him? I think he has a bit more trouble healing the dps on his side while they are killing the draw power sparks and the pillar adds.
    I was healing Elegon with our priest a few weeks ago. The spell distribution looks pretty different from your priest, but I don't know enough about Holy to comment on that. Anyway it looks like he uses way too few Renews. Here's the log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...=10031&e=10577

    Getting down the pillars close to each other is important, but from your log I would say you don't have a problem there. 7 adds in the second transition is a pretty good number.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalur View Post
    I was healing Elegon with our priest a few weeks ago. The spell distribution looks pretty different from your priest, but I don't know enough about Holy to comment on that. Anyway it looks like he uses way too few Renews. Here's the log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...=10031&e=10577

    Getting down the pillars close to each other is important, but from your log I would say you don't have a problem there. 7 adds in the second transition is a pretty good number.
    Thanks for that log, Ill ask him to have a look at it.

  15. #15
    How many healers are you using?

  16. #16
    We are using 2 healers.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    transition phases are also important. each end of the phase one (85/50%), he casts 15 sec draw power. when this happens, there must not be an add alive. it should explode in the next 1-2 sec or even before that. try to call a damage stop on elegon at 87/52%, if there is an add alive at this point, and focus this add down, then bring him into that transition phase. these 2x15 secs are a HUGE deal on how much damage you get on the boss. there is no damage incoming in that time, so this also gives healers time to regeneration mana.

    also important: the absolute maximum is 2 adds before 85% (we currently manage to do only one), and 3 adds before 50% (we manage to do 2 there). try to improve your dps here by using minor cooldowns for melees (so they can stay on the boss, and don't need to reset. the reset for them can take place when the first wave of sparks are running towards the edge). if you don't manage to get him to 85/50% with 2/3 adds, you have a serious dps problem and you can cancel that try, because you won't kill him anyways.

    then as said, try to kill three sparks, then dps the boss until the floor despawns. we did our first kill with 8 stacks (so kill three adds each phase, and ignore the fourth). currently we manage to kill 4 adds and ingnore the fifth easily, I'm sure we could do 5 waves by now each time. It's all a matter of gear for that.

    good break points for hp are: when the floor despawns the first time (so when he ACTUALLY despawns), elegon should be below 75% (we manage to do 68% here). if the floor despawns the second time, elegon should be below 35% (we manage to do about 27% here).

    the first goal for managing the encounter (if you actually can manage the mechanic, aka not falling down, or fail to kill the first wave) would be: finish the second cycle (so the wall is up and the aoe dmg from elegon is ongoing), and no one died until then. if you manage this, try to optimize P1 (the one with the big adds) plus the transitions to P2. if this is no problem, try to manage the sparks - you should definitely aim for killing four sparks, ignoring the fifth. every stack on the boss helps more.
    and when you get all this, try to maximize damage output.
    if that all goes well and you reach the final phase with 10 players alive, all you need is bloodlust/heroism and a proper healing/dmgreduction cooldown rotation, and he will fall. and healers who are not out of mana
    Last edited by xebtria; 2012-11-27 at 04:27 PM.

  18. #18
    Thanks xebtria!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Diviciacus View Post
    Heh, I'm not really sure if the healing team is that good. In this thread people have talked about the tank problems, the healing problems, but the dps seem to be getting off lightly. Anyway.
    If you're at 10% with 15sec left on the enrage timer then, imho, it is definitely a dps problem. The less dps you have, the more your healers will have mana issues.
    To me, it seems really weird that healers are forced to take mana pots whereas some dps don't even take a single one, in a fight you have to run with 2 healers to match the dps requirements.

  20. #20
    Don't lose heart, 10% is maybe 10-15 sec off.

    You need to beat it into people to prepot and pot again. Most don't.

    Transitions are where you can win a lot of time. Kill 4 sets of orbs and ignore the 5th (its 10% buff per wave, not 5%). Dps the boss while the 5th wave is travelling. Each dps needs to kill their own pillar. Try to kill them as close to each other as possible to reduce adds spawning. We found when we cleaned up the transition speed it had a bigger impact than anything else in this fight.


    Class specific
    The mages uptime on rune of power seems low and he never uses alter time as far as I can see. It's a decent dps boost if u hit it just before letting rip with big procs.

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