Should father have any say about abortion?

[semaphore]

Here's the thing people on the internet seem to misinterpret - Just because one side has stopped, doesn't mean you won and you're right.

Except it does when that side has been reduced to actual argument beyond attacking Wells personally.

[Vuljatar]

Oh so you just want to have the same power over a woman's body that she has over her own.

Well that's totally reasonable.

No need to be snide, though I suppose you just can't resist.

The man should have the same control over what happens to the fetus (that is 50% his) as the woman does. If he could just have it transplanted into his body like someone else suggested, I'd be all for that. Unfortunately that isn't currently medically practical. Therefore... see below.

But they aren't equally burdened during the 9 months after conception until birth. The women inherently deals with many more issues/problems/shit than the man during those 9 months, so the woman has more rights to terminate. Not to mention the child is entirely within the woman during those 9 months.

Which is why she should be compensated financially by the father if he wants it and she doesn't.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

That's more or less my thoughts on it. You're dealing with the situation. Its handled. No more fetus.

I think maybe they think that not wanting a pregnancy means you were somehow irresponsible and they link that irresponsibility to the outcome of abortion because abortion is the easier option. Though this of course ignores people who had poor luck, who changed their mind, or some other thing.

[Wells]

The man should have the same control over what happens to the fetus (that is 50% his) as the woman does

Not when only one of them is having to bear it. Equal powers for equal burdens.

[semaphore]

My point is too many people these days are been lazy not bothering with protection and getting pregnant and using abortion as an easy way out.

Because using condoms is so much more work than abortion... I mean, seriously here, how many people actually does that out of being lazy?

[Deleted]

I'm afraid I don't follow you.

You repeated what I had already said (bring your own condom), and I agreed with it again (yes, bring your own condom). And then you said my argument is retarded.

I actually meant you dismissed your own point, aka you claimed you needed to be retarded to not bring the gear... I attempted to mention it and you thought i dismissed the whole agurment perhaps. It was a jokey jest btw, since we were both on the same page i just disagreed with the wording of it and retard being slipped in.

[Sykol]

I'm sorry I'm still waiting for you to find where I said "Because he has a penis and keepitinyourpantslol, of course"

You've been saying that nearly verbatim every post. "It's a woman's body, men have no control over it." "A man's sperm doesn't belong to him once it's outside his body." "You just want to enslave women if you want to keep your kid." (Maybe not direct quotes, but fucking close)

You are saying a man has no rights to, at the very least, his genetic material. You are saying it's his responsibility if a woman gets pregnant, but not his choice as to whether she keeps the baby or not. You're hung up on the decision being hers because his dick flung some gunk into her, and not the other way around. You're obsessed with semantics in an argument that can't be handled with a simple "It's in so-and-so's body, so ipso facto the guy's shit out of luck."

[Vuljatar]

You're just strawmaning. It doesn't matter if it belongs to you. The point is that you don't get to force another person to keep it in her body.

And what alternative would you suggest, other than the woman having absolute and unilateral power over the existence of the fetus that the man is 50% responsible for creating?

[Vanyali]

Which is why she should be compensated financially by the father if he wants it and she doesn't.

What compensation can be given for:

c-section - permanent scarring, surgery
"normal" birth - scarring, stretch marks, tearing

problems with birth, such as death, or less mild situations that leave her with a permanent disability (ranging from mild to serious)


because of another person FORCING her to do something she was against. That's like saying it's okay to beat the shit out of a guy for his money if you pay him back double later.

[Deleted]

How many people use abortion as their primary form of birth control?

Old article from a uk paper

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...h-control.html

Seems more than 10% of those asked where using it as a primary form.

[Wells]

You've been saying that nearly verbatim every post. "It's a woman's body, men have no control over it." "A man's sperm doesn't belong to him once it's outside his body." "You just want to enslave women if you want to keep your kid." (Maybe not direct quotes, but fucking close)

You are saying a man has no rights to, at the very least, his genetic material. You are saying it's his responsibility if a woman gets pregnant, but not his choice as to whether she keeps the baby or not. You're hung up on the decision being hers because his dick flung some gunk into her, and not the other way around. You're obsessed with semantics in an argument that can't be handled with a simple "It's in so-and-so's body, so ipso facto the guy's shit out of luck."

I was really hoping for a link to where I said "Because he has a penis and keepitinyourpantslol, of course"

[Monstercloud]

Except it does when that side has been reduced to actual argument beyond attacking Wells personally.

And it's ok for Wells to say people are advocating slavery? Or are we going to start arguing semantics about slander and name-calling too?

[semaphore]

Some might see it as reverse sexism. But I can see it from the Woman's point of view, I just wish men weren't made out as villains is so many unplanned parenthood suits.

It helps if men don't sue, or don't talk about suing, women for having abortions.

I mean I know most of you don't. But this thread really opened my eyes up to the number of extremists who do.

[Vuljatar]

Not when only one of them is having to bear it. Equal powers for equal burdens.

Since there is no currently practical way to make the burden equal in a literal sense, I suggest the man paying the woman compensation. As you'd see if you read my entire post.

[Wells]

Old article from a uk paper

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...h-control.html

Seems more than 10% of those asked where using it as a primary form.

No where in that article does it give a number for the number of women who use abortion as their primary form of birth control.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

You've been saying that nearly verbatim every post. "It's a woman's body, men have no control over it." "A man's sperm doesn't belong to him once it's outside his body." "You just want to enslave women if you want to keep your kid." (Maybe not direct quotes, but fucking close)

You are saying a man has no rights to, at the very least, his genetic material. You are saying it's his responsibility if a woman gets pregnant, but not his choice as to whether she keeps the baby or not. You're hung up on the decision being hers because his dick flung some gunk into her, and not the other way around. You're obsessed with semantics in an argument that can't be handled with a simple "It's in so-and-so's body, so ipso facto the guy's shit out of luck."

I'm basically going to say one thing: It's not fair. Life isn't fair, biology isn't fair, there is nothing you can do to change that and trying to make it fair to the man will make it more unfair for the woman that it was for the man.

No where in that article does it give a number for the number of women who use abortion as their primary form of birth control.

I'm not sure why they feel abortion as a form of birth control is a particularly terrible thing anyway.

[Wells]

Since there is no currently practical way to make the burden equal in a literal sense, I suggest the man paying the woman compensation. As you'd see if you read my entire post.

Oh well at least he's buying, I mean compensating, her.

And it's ok for Wells to say people are advocating slavery? Or are we going to start arguing semantics about slander and name-calling too?

Still curious how telling a woman she has to bear your child isn't controlling her body for your own gain against her wishes.

[Vuljatar]

What compensation can be given for:

c-section - permanent scarring, surgery
"normal" birth - scarring, stretch marks, tearing

problems with birth, such as death, or less mild situations that leave her with a permanent disability (ranging from mild to serious)


because of another person FORCING her to do something she was against. That's like saying it's okay to beat the shit out of a guy for his money if you pay him back double later.

Again, medical complications would change the situation. I'm acting on the assumption of a normal, healthy pregnancy here.

And your analogy only holds up if you assume (like so many people in this thread seem to be assuming) that the pregnancy is entirely the fault of the man.

[semaphore]

And it's ok for Wells to say people are advocating slavery? Or are we going to start arguing semantics about slander and name-calling too?

They want to control a woman's body. It doesn't get much more like slavery than that.

[Sykol]

Because he has a penis and keepitinyourpantslol, of course

There you go. I just Back to the Future'd you.