Should father have any say about abortion?

[Priestiality]

I'm a straight male too, congrats?

What does having to carry it for 9 months have to do with anything? I'm fine with woman having the option to have an abortion, there are many many situations where having a child is a bad decision due to financial as well as other factors. What i'm saying is if Woman have the right to abort, men should also have this right in some form. It doesn't make sense that a woman can decide to instantly end it while a man can't get out.

Well, it seems what you're asking for is an ability to unilaterally terminate the pregnancy. While women admittedly have that right, as they should, it would require legislation, (near impossible given the current situation in Congress, lolrightwing), a means of enforcement, and would most likely instead require a compromise between the two. But what about guys that walk away from their pregnant girlfriends? He's not around to consent, no abortion, leaving another single mother to desperately seek support from a deadbeat that most likely ISN'T going to pay. Same situation but either party can decide to terminate the fetus. Dude leaves, but decides to enforce an abortion, the mother wants to keep the baby. How is that AT ALL fair to the person that has to deal with the consequences? It can't be an equal right until it has equal consequences. Until men are capable of experiencing all the things a woman goes through DURING pregnancy, he has a markedly smaller say, because as I noted, men don't deal with the consequences until birth.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 05:35 PM ----------

And so then the child will have to grow up with the consequences of the drunken parents :P That doesn't spell a healthy childhood and worse the parents could drink/party during pregnancy. Abortion sucks and I personally would never choose that as an option but I know there are situations where it is better not just for the 2 consenting adults, but the child who would be brought into that situation as well. Yes there are people who abuse it but there are people who don't.

And the only way to move forwards for equal rights is to not dwell on the past, you cannot say "Well woman have it bad before and now so therefore they deserve some sort of benefit over men" that just backwards thinking. If woman currently have the decision to have an abortion, men should have some form of choice. I don't mean they can choose to abort the child, I mean they should have form of way to be out of the child's life. Like after 30 days knowing about the child's existence they can be "Aborted" from the child's life where they cannot have contact or a relationship with the child, but aren't forced into child support etc etc. Honestly I think it's horrible to choose this but woman already have this choice threw Abortion.

Woman can right now choose to keep the baby and then force the man to pay child support, they can also choose to abort the baby if they don't want it. While a man has no choice to get out. This is not equal rights.

You can sign away rights. You can't sign away responsibility without the other parties consent. Whether you see the child every day or never in your life, if the child is yours you will rightly be expected to provide support to that child, because while 2 made it, only one is raising it. And please explain where you kids come up with this whole "well if I don't want it I shouldn't have to pay child support" rationale? Who's going to pay for it? Obama? Obama didn't knock her up, you did.

[Deleted]

It's funny you label the male as a stereotypical deadbeat when women are actually less likely to pay child support.

[Priestiality]

It's funny you label the male as a stereotypical deadbeat when women are actually less likely to pay child support.

That's because women are more likely to be caring for the child. Go look it up. The statistics are right there, just a google search away. Why should a woman pay support on a child she's ALREADY CARING FOR?

[Elyssia]

It's the woman's body, it's 100% her decision as to whether or not to abort.

that being said.
if a woman aborts MY baby we're no longer a couple.

[Deleted]

That's because women are more likely to be caring for the child. Go look it up. The statistics are right there, just a google search away. Why should a woman pay support on a child she's ALREADY CARING FOR?

Let me rephrase that, of the women liable to pay child support and the men liable to pay child support a larger percentage of the former refuse to. Perhaps there would be a larger amount of men child carers if the court system didn't default to giving the kid to the mother.

[Priestiality]

Let me rephrase that, of the women liable to pay child support and the men liable to pay child support a larger percentage of the former refuse to.

Do you have a source? Or is this just something you're using to try and paint me as a "reverse sexist" or some other similarly silly, ignorant remark?

[Dispersedshadow]

Do you have a source? Or is this just something you're using to try and paint me as a "reverse sexist" or some other similarly silly, ignorant remark?

I'll be disappointed if his/her reply isn't

The statistics are right there, just a google search away.

[Priestiality]

I'm not the one seeking to make changes and claiming the system is obviously broken and etc. I think it's fine how it is, as do most rational human beings. And yes I understand it works both ways. My best friends 2 oldest children aren't even his biologically, but his name is on the birth certificate and he loves them dearly. They live with him full-time, only seeing their mother when she comes down off her synthetic meth long enough to actually give a shit about them. Of course, that doesn't stop her from trying to claim child support, or using them to increase the amount she gets on her EBT card. (It's like food stamps, but classier, if you didn't know.) I understand there are scumbags on both sides, but a majority of the time, it IS the father being the scumbag.

[Deleted]

Do you have a source? Or is this just something you're using to try and paint me as a "reverse sexist" or some other similarly silly, ignorant remark?

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-240.pdf

[Seirith]

Personally I'm all for abortion, EXCEPT as birth control. If two consenting adults with the means to raise a child decide to abort it because they "just don't want it" I don't think that's right from a moral standpoint. If the only reason that potential child is being denied a shot at life is because mommy and daddy were a little too drunk to put the condom on, that's fucked up, and as adults they should have to live with the consequences of those actions.

What about in the case that two adults use BC which fails and she ends up pregnant?

I have the means to raise a child, I am married, educated and currently using BC because I do not want a child. If I were to get pregnant yes I would abort because I don't want a child. I have never wanted a child. I am not using abortion is BC, I am using it to end a pregnancy that would be the result of failed BC. It is not like all people are drunk when they have sex. Actually, I don't drink and have never been drunk.

[Tradewind]

I believe the father should stay out of the decision, when my ex got pregnant my initial response to her was "I'll get the coat hanger." It was later that I realized that was not the reaction she was looking for.

[Seirith]

It's the woman's body, it's 100% her decision as to whether or not to abort.

that being said.
if a woman aborts MY baby we're no longer a couple.

This is an interesting response because the entire problem could be stopped by people deciding what would happen if a pregnancy occurred before they decided to sleep together. I'm married so will never have the issue but if I were single/dating someone who did not agree with abortion/would want to keep the child I would never sleep with that person because I don't want a child.

Obviously, being female I would go and get an abortion without his consent but I would never want to put myself into that position.

[Priestiality]

What about in the case that two adults use BC which fails and she ends up pregnant?

I have the means to raise a child, I am married, educated and currently using BC because I do not want a child. If I were to get pregnant yes I would abort because I don't want a child. I have never wanted a child. I am not using abortion is BC, I am using it to end a pregnancy that would be the result of failed BC. It is not like all people are drunk when they have sex. Actually, I don't drink and have never been drunk.

I bet you can just see for MILES on that high horse huh?

http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-240.pdf

This will be fun.

"The majority of custodial parents were mothers (82.2 percent), and about 1 in 6 (17.8 percent) were fathers, proportions which were not statistically different from 1994."

As I can't link the table due to it being sideways, looking at the values, from 1993-2009, measured every other year, there is no evidence to support your claim that more women refuse to pay child support. At best you could argue both sides refuse to pay equally. There will be discrepancies leaning one way or the other, but ultimately the amount owed vs amount paid among ALL recipients is generally equal. That being said, less than 1/4 of custodial fathers are AWARDED child support. Nearly half of all custodial mothers are.

The graph on the next page shows that 15-20% of custodial fathers live in poverty. While 30-35% of custodial mothers do. Poverty as a whole HAS decreased for both sexes during the timeframe of the report.

There's no information in the next table that wasn't in the previous table, rather than looking at all years it ONLY looks at 2009. While I agree, that in the year 2009, a larger percentage of males were not paid in full, the numbers for those that didn't receive anything at all was within the margin of error for both sexes. Obviously the fact that 20% more single mothers live below the poverty line than single fathers, an obvious correlation emerges. They didn't get paid in full because the mother most likely can't afford it.

In a graph further in the document we see that the older or more educated a person is the more likely they are to receive the full amount they're owed. Typically, if one person in a relationship is educated the other is. Ages will typically be similar as well, indicating it's reciprocal for both sexes. Makes sense, the smarter and wiser one is, the more likely they are to take responsibility for their own actions.

While very interesting, there's nothing here to credibly back up your claims unless we look at a SINGLE year, and ignore the margin of error.

[Deleted]

There's an obvious statistical trend towards mothers being the parent, but that's obviously a given and is a problem in and of itself and I wouldn't be surprised if poverty and being a single parent were related at all. If this doesn't show that mothers aren't paying up as much as men, it at least shows that statistically there's a proportionally equal amount of women who are deadbeats as well.

[Priestiality]

There's an obvious statistical trend towards mothers being the parent, but that's obviously a given and is a problem in and of itself and I wouldn't be surprised if poverty and being a single parent were related at all. If this doesn't show that mothers aren't paying up as much as men, it at least shows that statistically there's a proportionally equal amount of women who are deadbeats as well.

People are scum, welcome to Earth. There will always be deadbeats, but nothing about this suggests what you initially implied, which is a larger percentage of women are deadbeats than men. Admittedly, it doesn't prove that men are bigger scumbags either. So yes, it's a compromise. Unfortunately without any specific data showing that a larger percentage of either lives in poverty as a direct result of having custody of the child, no correlation can be made there. Though I would like to know.

[Seirith]

I bet you can just see for MILES on that high horse huh?

Uh what does that have to do with my post at all? Also how is that in any way a constructive answer to what I said?

[Northern Goblin]

Until a woman's body isn't needed to carry a child to term, the right to decide abortion is hers.

The rest is a poor argument where people are being labelled deadbeats because they believe men should have reproductive rights to some degree.

[Priestiality]

Uh what does that have to do with my post at all? Also how is that in any way a constructive answer to what I said?

There is no constructive answer for "I don't use abortion as birth control NOW but I totally would, should the opportunity arise."

[Seirith]

There is no constructive answer for "I don't use abortion as birth control NOW but I totally would, should the opportunity arise."

I am not using abortion as birth control. I use an IUD as birth control and before that I used the pill and condoms. If that birth control failed, yes I would have an abortion. It is not like I have sex every day and go birth control? nah I'll just have an abortion if I get pregnant! I actively try to prevent pregnancy by having an IUD and seeing my gyno twice a year.

I am not on a "high horse".

[Priestiality]

I am not using abortion as birth control. I use an IUD as birth control and before that I used the pill and condoms. If that birth control failed, yes I would have an abortion. It is not like I have sex every day and go birth control? nah I'll just have an abortion if I get pregnant! I actively try to prevent pregnancy by having an IUD and seeing my gyno twice a year.

I am not on a "high horse".

Then surely your gyno has told you that NO method of birth control is 100% effective. You're using it as a backup plan for no other reason than "I don't want to".