Flashback

[Dtach]

Anyone want to know what its like to play rogue in its purest form should go check out "Dahis - Transformation" on Todou.com (Its in Japanese, but has the music).

Notice the skill, the elegance, the 5/8 kite, the burst, the power that the rogue once had. Those days playing rogue was a thing of beauty.

I can't explain how p*ssed I become when watching this video. Some of the funnest times in a game was playing my rogue in those days. The class was perfect back then. Other classes could QQ all they want but they had ways to counter, they had ways to overcome. Then Blizzard copped out, and killed the rogue class. I'm not sure who the actual person is that decided on this whole.. lets make rogues into leather warriors. But they decided to make the rogue playstyle basically get in front of a guy throw up some evasion cooldowns and make all the abilities hit less hard but not need positioning any more because all the bad mages couldn't blink fast enough. It was all our fault. I don't care if I get flamed and I hope some Blizz rogue devs are reading so I can give you a big F*CK YOU.

So think about the dwindling rogue numbers, the changes that Blizzard doesn't make to the rogue class because they don't know what to do, the competitive passionate players that have abandoned the rogue class for warriors (Like Dahis above, who then quit). I talked to 10 high level rogues on my server the other week and asked if they would recommend a rogue to level. Unequivocally all said "no".

Maybe a bit dramatic but I miss the fun I had in those days. And find it insulting that Blizzard decided to "kill" one class to appease all of the others.

[Deleted]

I'd say we're more mutilated than actually killed. Though one could argue which is worse.

[Deleted]

Since i cant watch it without a proxy i might aswell ask when the clips were taken.(Which Patch)

[PvPisthelifeforme]

World of Warcraft is an evolving game, and that means the classes will change as time goes on. I agree there are a lot of issues with the current state of rogues, but the answer to that is get over yourself. According to all the QQ posts everyone was a 2.9k rogue for arena, or were a heroic soloing badass for pve. We are not as strong as we were in the past currently, but if you understand the class we will be fine come the next few seasons, because unfortunately we scale with gear which needs to be looked into.

Adapt and overcome, and when we get the much needed balancing you will be a better rogue through it all.

[Dtach]

World of Warcraft is an evolving game, and that means the classes will change as time goes on. I agree there are a lot of issues with the current state of rogues, but the answer to that is get over yourself. According to all the QQ posts everyone was a 2.9k rogue for arena, or were a heroic soloing badass for pve. We are not as strong as we were in the past currently, but if you understand the class we will be fine come the next few seasons, because unfortunately we scale with gear which needs to be looked into.

Adapt and overcome, and when we get the much needed balancing you will be a better rogue through it all.

This is a good comment. I appreciate the people that have preserved being a rogue and applaud you for dealing with the SH*TTY gameplay. I don't give a crap if rogues will be viable in the next few seasons.. the reality is that the gameplay is 100% less deep and less rewarding. That is an absolute fact. You might put up great numbers but you now are mindlessly dropping front facing cooldowns in every build as they come up and thats about it... every build is basically old school combat build. They didn't destroy the numbers, cause they can scale that.. they mutilated the fun, skill and diversity.

Oh and btw, i'm getting over myself by quitting the game. The funny thing is that it would have taken a complete collapse of my class to do so.. /golfclap Blizz, or should I say Activision now.

---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 03:00 PM ----------

Since i cant watch it without a proxy i might aswell ask when the clips were taken.(Which Patch)

Vanilla, right before TBC... not sure the number

[Assumi]

So is this topic supposed to be anything short of "I wish we were as overpowered as we used to be"?

What is with this class, unless you're #1 in PvE and making up at least 50% of the top 1500 arena players, you're all crying about how awful it is to be a Rogue.

I've got issues with the class too, many, but it seems that nothing beyond game destroying imbalance in your favour will appease you.

[Dtach]

So is this topic supposed to be anything short of "I wish we were as overpowered as we used to be"?

What is with this class, unless you're #1 in PvE and making up at least 50% of the top 1500 arena players, you're all crying about how awful it is to be a Rogue.

I've got issues with the class too, many, but it seems that nothing beyond game destroying imbalance in your favour will appease you.

This might suprise you but you can reduce my damage output, nerf me to hell.. just bring back the old, non-boring playstyle and i'm good. Make me work for my damage again. My problem isn't my rank, its the high risk nature of my class has been removed. If I can wrap you up and get behind you.. i should be able to unload. If i can kite you efficiently, I should be able to make you think twice about tangling with me.

I'm not in the camp of wanting to be a top 1500 arena player at the sacrifice of shitty gameplay. Thats not my angle

[Deleted]

So is this topic supposed to be anything short of "I wish we were as overpowered as we used to be"?
What is with this class, unless you're #1 in PvE and making up at least 50% of the top 1500 arena players, you're all crying about how awful it is to be a Rogue.
I've got issues with the class too, many, but it seems that nothing beyond game destroying imbalance in your favour will appease you.

I can deal with the class beeing weak in comparison to other classes but i cant deal with a low skillcap and an uninspiring class.
Also what Budi said.

[PvPisthelifeforme]

This might suprise you but you can reduce my damage output, nerf me to hell.. just bring back the old, non-boring playstyle and i'm good. Make me work for my damage again. My problem isn't my rank, its the high risk nature of my class has been removed. If I can wrap you up and get behind you.. i should be able to unload. If i can kite you efficiently, I should be able to make you think twice about tangling with me.

I'm not in the camp of wanting to be a top 1500 arena player at the sacrifice of shitty gameplay. Thats not my angle

Have you tried out combat?

While the overall spec is not looked upon favorably for past expansions when it comes to pvp, I have found this spec to be the most fun I've had with my rogue in awhile. I have been playing my rogue since day 1 of classic, and while I have picked up many classes far, and wide, I always came back to my rogue. Maybe it is me being stubborn about giving up nearly 8 years of work (Note: I've taken many many breaks since I started!), but there is something that makes me feel fuzzy inside knowing if things turn bad I have an ace up my sleeve. Enough with my own banter...

Combat is incredibly fun with the main thing being killing spree. Yes we depend on CDs for bursting down someone, but with 8 second kidney shots, having two options of wrecking someone (killing spree or shadow blades/adrenaline rush), and on top of that our eviscerate lowering the cooldown of those already short cd spells, that is what is making me love my rogue.

Things have changed we are far from balanced on arena standards, but when it comes pvp in general (arena included) I am loving it!

[Ryme]

So is this topic supposed to be anything short of "I wish we were as overpowered as we used to be"?

What is with this class, unless you're #1 in PvE and making up at least 50% of the top 1500 arena players, you're all crying about how awful it is to be a Rogue.

I've got issues with the class too, many, but it seems that nothing beyond game destroying imbalance in your favour will appease you.

Nah, people just want their class to be fun to play again.

[Dtach]

While the overall spec is not looked upon favorably for past expansions when it comes to pvp, I have found this spec to be the most fun I've had with my rogue in awhile. I have been playing my rogue since day 1 of classic, and while I have picked up many classes far, and wide, I always came back to my rogue. Maybe it is me being stubborn about giving up nearly 8 years of work (Note: I've taken many many breaks since I started!), but there is something that makes me feel fuzzy inside knowing if things turn bad I have an ace up my sleeve. Enough with my own banter...

Combat is incredibly fun with the main thing being killing spree. Yes we depend on CDs for bursting down someone, but with 8 second kidney shots, having two options of wrecking someone (killing spree or shadow blades/adrenaline rush), and on top of that our eviscerate lowering the cooldown of those already short cd spells, that is what is making me love my rogue.

So i switched to a warrior as my main a few expansions back (because frankly, it seems like devs are always trying to figure out how to "make them better", unlike rogue) and like you I have tried my rogue from time to time. What I had found and based on what your explanation is above is that you have some upfront CD's that you blow to provide that "burst" either Shadow Blades or AR with Killing Spree thrown in. Sounds cool in absolutely wrecking someones face with those abilities but I ask you.. where does stealth come into play, how about relevant CC, and now all my damage comes from passive sources... guess what damage from passive sources translates to in English. Boring Gameplay.

I'm happy your digging Combat and rogue in general. But even the story you told above was not the bill of goods sold to us who leveled there toons to 80, 85, or 90. If we have become just a "melee fighter" then remove all of our stealth abilities (we don't even use them in pve anymore) and gimmick abilties that are weighing us down, and give us a new angle that the developers can live with.. don't just forget about us.

[Qbn]

What I had found and based on what your explanation is above is that you have some upfront CD's that you blow to provide that "burst" either Shadow Blades or AR with Killing Spree thrown in.

upfront CD's that you blow to provide that "burst" either Shadow Blades or AR with Killing Spree thrown in.

"burst" either Shadow Blades or AR with Killing Spree thrown in.

AR with Killing Spree thrown in.

You are a welcomed departure from a class you clearly never understood. First post in months, and it's this nub that makes me try to remember my login credentials. FYI- No one wastes Killing Spree with Adrenaline Rush. GG.

[Raldazzar]

World of Warcraft is an evolving game, and that means the classes will change as time goes on. I agree there are a lot of issues with the current state of rogues, but the answer to that is get over yourself. According to all the QQ posts everyone was a 2.9k rogue for arena, or were a heroic soloing badass for pve. We are not as strong as we were in the past currently, but if you understand the class we will be fine come the next few seasons, because unfortunately we scale with gear which needs to be looked into.

Adapt and overcome, and when we get the much needed balancing you will be a better rogue through it all.

Well, Whilst I appreciate wht you are saying and gear scaling is an important factor.. becoming stronger as the game goes on, to the point where we get nerfcalled at the end of every expack.. then start back at point 0.. isnt going to work.

bring back the positional skill requirements to our stuff. make our cooldowns MATTER. right now, they matter, but in a different way, they matter in the sense of, we need them to do the job. as opposed to... popping cold blood when you want to line up burst. its similar but different.

the rogue class needs reworking. it needs an overhaul, the thing is, rogues are and will always be the redheaded stepchild. because unless you ARE one? you hate them.

the fact that there is more ret palas then rogues, yes, more of one single (notoriously crappy outside of burst windows) spec. then ALL rogues.. yet GC and blizz refuse to acknowledge the issues and stonewall us with assurances that arent or havent come true.

pvp balance is tough, its an ever evolving machine. but rogues are left behind in that machine at present. our talents are underwhelming at best. in MY opinion, no 90 talent should be a boring button push, or passive. versatility? id LOVE to see the stats on who even has that. anticipation is..unneeded good rogues are used to managing cp through years of training, all this has done, is made my rotation sloppier.

put simply, for a purist melee (the only one there is. every other class has another possible role i.e tanking/healing/ranged) - the only somewhat decent talent is a RANGED ability. doesnt that sound wrong to you people?