Dave Kosak Interview (5.1) - Wowhead

[Kelimbror]

A housewife or a bad military leader. Great character .

It's always been disconcerting how amazing they are at presenting an overall story and utterly terrible at how they treat the characters during that story. Whether it's throwing away Mary Sues, reducing heroes to idiots, or gods to mortals as cliche, they have exemplified terrible character development regularly.

I understand we are just forum jockeys, but moments of excellence tend to be few and far between. Thankfully the overarching story isn't as bad.

[Trassk]

A housewife or a bad military leader. Great character .

thats the break. People wanted the warrrrrr back in warcraft, so they make the military characters go all out warrrrmongers.

I've not been at all happy that after years of progressing the orcs from there once dark warmongering ways to that of a noble orcish society, they were forced to backtracked by the devs to satisfy the whining little douches who wanted the warrrrrr in warcraft, and ruin a perfectly good story.

Its only fair then that the same happens to alliance characters.

[Thulvaso]

Lead quest designer.

Quests. The worst part of wow.

Well, it's the best way to get the story across. I feel that a alot of the story driven quests in the 5.1 dailies are excellent, I would like to see more of this than the kill x or collect y.

More engaging is better.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 04:31 PM ----------

on my server Horde doesnt even exist (Silvermoon EU) all we have from PvP is killing Horde mobs which is good thing actually because I rolled on PvE server for a reason.

I'm on Silvermoon to, I don't mind the lack of Horde but I would of liked to see some around the new daily area to make it more varied. Can't complain, Silvermoon has always been the go to Alliance server and Draenor for the Horde.

[Scummer]

Its only fair then that the same happens to alliance characters.

Now you're just being childish .

This thing with Tyrande and Night Elves has gone on since WoW first started.
I wouldn't trumpet about the "Orcs aren't warmongers, they're peaceful" as if the same thing hasn't happened to the Blues. Night Elves became a race of peaceful Druids in WoW and were very neutral, not how they were portrayed in WC3. Humans up until recently were for the most part characterized by racism, bigotry and a general lack of looking at the big picture, rather than their heroism, pride and ambition and general intellect in matters while knowing that they were in the end doing what was right that they showed during WC2 where most people fell in love with the faction.

So please don't tell me "it's fair" when one of your races gets it's feet wet in a story people generally may not approve of.

[KrazyK923]

thats the break. People wanted the warrrrrr back in warcraft, so they make the military characters go all out warrrrmongers.

I've not been at all happy that after years of progressing the orcs from there once dark warmongering ways to that of a noble orcish society, they were forced to backtracked by the devs to satisfy the whining little douches who wanted the warrrrrr in warcraft, and ruin a perfectly good story.

Its only fair then that the same happens to alliance characters.

This post is incredibly naive and just plain, well, wrong. The Horde have done amazingly well in their transition from relatively peaceful to Warmongering. Not to mention the Horde that you're referring to as a "Noble Orcish society" was pre-Warcraft 1 Orcs. War1/2 certainly weren't that way. War3 you could argue they were, but that isn't the Horde that existed in Vanilla-Wrath anyway.

Sylvanas has taken all of Lordaeron, and Garrosh has essentially won every battle against the Alliance except for the Swamp of Sorrows.

I hope you realize that you can be a Warmonger and not be a complete idiot in the way they've portrayed Tyrande. Then again, your factional bias might not allow that to happen (Not that you ever respond to me anymore anyway gigglesnort.).

I'm not sure how putting the "War" back in WARcraft meant that somehow the story went to shit. They're actually finally doing quite interesting storytelling through the game outside of one-off epic quest chains. Just because you're all "boo hoo" that the Horde might actually lose something doesn't mean its bad.

We as the Alliance has kind of been dealing with it for 8 years.

[Dreknar20]

I've not been at all happy that after years of progressing the orcs from there once dark warmongering ways to that of a noble orcish society, they were forced to backtracked by the devs to satisfy the whining little douches who wanted the warrrrrr in warcraft, and ruin a perfectly good story.
.

So people who enjoy war in the game are douche bags?

Tell, me, what were you doing on the last daily or quest, or whenever you log into WoW? 90% chance you were killing and slaughtering things. This game is all about war. That is never gonna change.

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 05:30 PM ----------

Sylvanas has taken all of Lordaeron, and Garrosh has essentially won every battle against the Alliance except for the Swamp of Sorrows.
.

If Garrosh won every battle the war would have been over already

[Trassk]

This post is incredibly naive and just plain, well, wrong. The Horde have done amazingly well in their transition from relatively peaceful to Warmongering. Not to mention the Horde that you're referring to as a "Noble Orcish society" was pre-Warcraft 1 Orcs. War1/2 certainly weren't that way. War3 you could argue they were, but that isn't the Horde that existed in Vanilla-Wrath anyway.

Sylvanas has taken all of Lordaeron, and Garrosh has essentially won every battle against the Alliance except for the Swamp of Sorrows.

I hope you realize that you can be a Warmonger and not be a complete idiot in the way they've portrayed Tyrande. Then again, your factional bias might not allow that to happen (Not that you ever respond to me anymore anyway gigglesnort.).

I'm not sure how putting the "War" back in WARcraft meant that somehow the story went to shit. They're actually finally doing quite interesting storytelling through the game outside of one-off epic quest chains. Just because you're all "boo hoo" that the Horde might actually lose something doesn't mean its bad.

We as the Alliance has kind of been dealing with it for 8 years.

God, talk about a double standard. So your not happy that one of your fav faction characters is doing down a dirt road, thats just wrong, but when looking at the hordes situation your resolve it 'it will be good for it to lose'.

See, you think you have a more broad opinion of this whole matter, but really your no better then me.

[huth]

The Tyrande stuff is just bullshit.

Tyrande was headstrong in War3, but she wasn't stupid. And that is how she is portrayed as in 5.1. Anyone could figure out its a trap, and they make Tyrande go "/shrug LETS GO DO EETTT."

You can make Varian a better lead in other ways than at the expense of the other faction leaders. I wanted the "Trials of the High King" nonsense, but not in a way of like "Oh Varian is the High King because he's not an absolute moron like Tyrande is."

Imagine, if you will, Tyrande standing there with a sizable force of sentinels instead of on her own. Does it seem different now?

[Thulvaso]

If Garrosh won every battle the war would have been over already

Sure, they win battles but it takes more to win a war. Also, war can be won on a political level as well as the battlefield, one area Garrosh lacks and refuses to get help with.

[Dreknar20]

Anyone could figure out its a trap, and they make Tyrande go "/shrug LETS GO DO EETTT."
."

you know, the whole point of a trap is to not make it obvious to detect

Plus, Varian's plan of action had just as much of a chance to fail as it succeded.
What if the Orcs didnt come out?
Then they would have to flush them out, and the Orcs will be well fortified since Varian waited for so long.

Its easy to bash people for shit in a battle's aftermath.
But before or during a battle, things are no so clear, hence the fog of war term.

[Granyala]

And that's the other thing: there's a min/max mindset out there. "You want the best feasts! Our raid needs the best feasts! We need to be the best you can be!" Sometimes, it's a lot of time to get that extra +25 stats. If it's a horrible agonizing pain to get that extra feast, it's okay. The game plays just fine with the other feast. Sometimes it's hard to get that across.

Now go and tell that to our raid leads lol

[Yig]

" I haven't even started my cloud serpent mount, and I'm really excited about that faction, just had other things to do."

Ha. Hahah!

I'm not daily hater (i'm one of those who did every possible daily everyday if not exalted), just started doing pandaren ambassador on my second toon, but i just can't agree on that. Cloud serpents were shittiest dailies after jade serpent AC ones, and i'm really happy that with rep buff, i'm already halfway revered after 2 days of dailies... dunno how that did happen, never saw any eggs.

This whole interview (in fact, every interview) feels to me like it's from some other game.

It took me 3 daily cycles and about 4-5 hours of flying around looking for eggs to get my cloud serpent. People just don't seem to understand the right way to farm eggs or they are really unlucky. I had done the daily a few weeks after launch, then one night I did the dailies, farmed eggs off and on for about 10 hours with lots of breaks in between, and then I did the dailies one more time and got my drake.

It's really the perfect mix of effort and reward in my opinion and it was one of the most addictive things I've done in WOW since my first burn out in 2005.

[Deleted]

Yeah, i've never seen any egg on my main or alt. Dont even know how they do look. But i'm not hating rep itself, as with profession daily ones, cloud serpent was still one of the fastest to get exalted. CS dailies itself just were most boring and uninteresting of them all. And i meant i'm halfway to exalted (10000/21000) after 2 days, i just suck at english.

But again, on topic, these interviews really made me think why i do play this game. It's clear that i'm not excited about anything that devs themselves find fun. Maybe i'm just hooked badly or brainwashed, as i still find it fun to play, just not in those ways that devs think normal player will.

[mosely]

They are not really mandatory.

We need to come up with a new word to describe the relationship between character progression and dailies, because people are very quick to tell you just how optional they are.

Dailies are optional, but you're just stubbornly stunting your own progression if you skip them. Therefore, dailies are ______________.

Over-incentivized?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Not too much interesting there. GC at least gave us some tantalizing tidbits about 5.2.

[Kelimbror]

We need to come up with a new word to describe the relationship between character progression and dailies, because people are very quick to tell you just how optional they are.

Dailies are optional, but you're just stubbornly stunting your own progression if you skip them. Therefore, dailies are ______________.

Over-incentivized?

The word you are looking for is mandatory...the word we keep using. Everyone just likes to prance around like bettering your character is not the entire objective of the game. It's all bullshit. The only way to have it not be mandatory is to make your character's progression take a back seat to you just playing the game to play it. Granted I have had more fun since adopting this attitude, but it doesn't change the facts.

[Trassk]

Dailes are... procrastinating.

Yes, I start a daily and get so bored I drift off and leave them.

[KrazyK923]

If Garrosh won every battle the war would have been over already

In the lore, the Horde has won every single skirmish with the Alliance except for Swamp of Sorrows. And even in that "victory" for the Alliance, the Horde's base still stands, and the Horde can still teleport there. Of course we're also ignoring that the only reason the Alliance wins this zone is because its a throwback to the RTS games.

God, talk about a double standard. So your not happy that one of your fav faction characters is doing down a dirt road, thats just wrong, but when looking at the hordes situation your resolve it 'it will be good for it to lose'.

See, you think you have a more broad opinion of this whole matter, but really your no better then me.

I'm not sure how its a double standard. The Horde's progression is natural and logical. The younger Orcs do not know about the Corruption, the savagery, ect of the Orcish Horde of the days of old (This is established multiple times in multiple places), and is even the reason why Thrall makes Garrosh Warchief. I will agree that Garrosh's character has been fairly significantly butchered (Mainly because I believe they realized they ruined him by trying to make him both honorable and super duper savage), but the Horde as a whole still is acting as they usually do. Baine and the Tauren are acting as they normally do to the situation, as is Vol'jin, and the Blood Elves, ect.

Tyrande is not. Kosak says that Tyrande has always been headstrong/a hothead/ect. And its true. But being a hothead doesn't mean you are an idiot. Tyrande led the final defense of Mount Hyjal and gave Malfurion enough time to set his trap. She knows how to fight and she knows how to lead. What Blizzard did in 5.1 is suddenly make her forget everything she's done for 10,000 years as the COMMANDER of the Night Elven army and act like a total idiot. And the only reason they do that is so Varian can go "no...wait...dun do that..." and then Tyrande suddenly has an epiphany about Varian as a leader.

There's not a double standard anywhere. Nor is Tyrande even a favorite character of mine, so I'm not sure where you pulled that from. I'm talking about how even when the Alliance is supposedly getting "good lore," there's always a tradeoff. Varian becomes a better leader? Tyrande becomes a moron. The Horde and their reaction to Garrosh makes sense. It makes sense why Baine doesn't agree with just nuclear blasting Alliance cities. It makes sense why Vol'jin is openly hostile to Garrosh's actions. It makes sense why the Blood Elves were negotiating with Varian to leave the Horde. What doesn't make sense is making Tyrande a flat-out idiot to make Varian seem better.

A better scenario would have been if Tyrande and her forces were ambushed by the Horde and THEY were holding up in the temple and you as the players follow Varian and save her. And afterward, it turns out Tyrande head out looking for that source of energy that the whole "Incursion" base's storyline was to fight against the Horde. THAT would sound like Tyrande. And THAT would have shown Varian to be a better leader, because he would chide her for leaving their position for something that wasn't a certainty.

Imagine, if you will, Tyrande standing there with a sizable force of sentinels instead of on her own. Does it seem different now?

No, because Tyrande is not an idiot on the battlefield.

you know, the whole point of a trap is to not make it obvious to detect

Varian says right to her face its a trap, and everybody and anyone can tell it is. You don't just charge your forces at an enemy who has fortified in a solid defensive structure. Tyrande would know this if she spend time in just one battle. But, she hasn't, she's only led the Night Elf army for a number of millennia.

[ZehGeek]

If you want to spend the valor points you get from dungeons or tillers dailies, there was no way around doing dailies for the factions who offer gear (in 5.0). Thats why dailies felt/feel mandatory.
With the upgrade system in 5.1 this is a bit better, but just a bit.

To be fair too, you earn rep and such a lot faster then you can get valor to spend it. Why do 30+ dailies a day, for 1k valor a week?

[Scummer]

In the lore, the Horde has won every single skirmish with the Alliance except for Swamp of Sorrows. And even in that "victory" for the Alliance, the Horde's base still stands, and the Horde can still teleport there. Of course we're also ignoring that the only reason the Alliance wins this zone is because its a throwback to the RTS games.

It's probably worth noting how the Horde did lose Ashenvale, although it's still not clear if Wolfheart is before or after however as it relates heavily to the induction of the Gilneans my hunch is on it being before.
Although this kinda put the Night Elves in a bad light as Varian kicked the Horde mostly out of Ashenvale only for the Night Elves to lose half of it again.

Add to this the two "decisive victories" mentioned at the start of the Horde's intro cinematic for Pandaria and the fact they destroy an Alliance fleet with Anduin amongst them and lead by Admiral Taylor.